National anthem kneeling in other countries thread

[Suburbia]

Colin Kaepernick's racial and social justice movement is an international movement now, with soccer players in Britain and France kneeling during their countries' national anthem.

Liverpool's Jordan Henderson, a white Briton, kneels during God Save The Queen.

Has it had any controversy like it does in the USA?

https://www.si.com/soccer/2020/06/01/liverpool-players-kneel-george-floyd-racism

[AGA]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/dec/15/booing-at-cambridge-colchester-match-after-players-take-the-knee-at-kick-off

[Never Made it to Graceland]

FF

[Tender Branson]

We don't have this here in Austria.

But we have a different controversy, gender-related.

About a decade ago, our national anthem was changed to include women in it:

Previously, the line was "Heimat bist du großer Söhne." (home of great sons you are.)

Now, it is "Heimat großer Töchter und Söhne." (home of great daughters and sons.)

The new version doesn't really ryhme and most people still sing the old version in football stadiums and elsewhere, while only a small amount is singing the new version.

At the same time.

So, you hear a mix of the old a new versions all the time.

When people always sing the old version it always creates headlines in newspapers

"AUSTRIANS ARE STILL SINGING THE OLD VERSION OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM !!!!! HOW STUPID AND SEXIST ARE THEYYYYY ?!?!?"

[Never Made it to Graceland]

We don't have this here in Austria.

But we have a different controversy, gender-related.

About a decade ago, our national anthem was changed to include women in it:

Previously, the line was "Heimat bist du großer Söhne." (home of great sons you are.)

Now, it is "Heimat großer Töchter und Söhne." (home of great daughters and sons.)

The new version doesn't really ryhme and most people still sing the old version in football stadiums and elsewhere, while only a small amount is singing the new version.

At the same time.

So, you hear a mix of the old a new versions all the time.

When people always sing the old version it always creates headlines in newspapers

"AUSTRIANS ARE STILL SINGING THE OLD VERSION OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM !!!!! HOW STUPID AND SEXIST ARE THEYYYYY ?!?!?"

I hope you are singing the new version. Refusing to be inclusive of women because you are adhering to tradition sounds like something a Muslim would do.

[Former President tack50]

Not kneeling, but getting the national anthem booed is a regular occurrence here in Spain, it happens pretty much every time a Basque or Catalan team gets to play the finals of the "King's Cup". Which given that FC Barcelona is generally the best or 2nd best team in Spain, tends to happen quite often. Bonus points if both a Basque and a Catalan team get to play. In this video there are several booing incidents, including comments from politicians from all sides (in Spanish):

To be fair, American sports have a lot more opportunities to get their national anthem kneeled given it is played in literally every match if I understand correctly, while here in Spain only the finals of the "King's Cup" and matches from the national team get the national anthem; but not literally every match.

[TheTide]

It's often a fun thing to observe the England football team as the camera pans over them, one-by-one, during "God Save the Queen". There's often at least one or two who don't even attempt to sing it, which often leads to them being labelled as a traitor or something along those lines by the right-wing elements of the press.

[kaoras]

Before the Kaepernick thing, I would have interpreted someone kneeling in a national anthem as chauvinistic fanatism.

[Samof94]

It is illegal to not perform the national anthem in Thailand and traffic stops twice a day foe that reason.

[CumbrianLefty]

It's often a fun thing to observe the England football team as the camera pans over them, one-by-one, during "God Save the Queen". There's often at least one or two who don't even attempt to sing it, which often leads to them being labelled as a traitor or something along those lines by the right-wing elements of the press.

One of the best things about Gary Neville is that he never even pretended to

(this isn't even an anti-monarchy thing per se; it is a *terrible anthem*, one of the very worst, and what business does it have being the ENGLISH - as opposed to the UK's - national tune anyway?)

[IceAgeComing]

God Save The Queen gets very aggressively booed in any Scotland-England international football game - Scotland having its own league system means that its simply never used outside the international context because as a normal country the national anthem isn't played at anything but the biggest domestic games and they use Flower of Scotland for that now.  Its not the same for Rugby but that's probably more of an indication of the differences in the class and demographic breakdown of your typical Football and Rugby crowds.  Whenever it happens though it really annoys sections of the right-wing tabloids that get offended that Scotland does not support England: same people that got annoyed at Andy Murray's "anyone but England" remark many years ago and in every major Football competition when Scots people (Scotland having inevitably failed to qualify) generally find themselves supporting Belgium or Croatia or Trinidad (fun story that one: they managed to qualify for the 2006 World Cup in a bit of a fluke; and because half their team played League Football in Scotland and because they had a player called "Jason Scotland" they were adopted as the honorary Scottish national team for that World Cup) over England.

That's actually a reason why National Anthem politics isn't a massive thing in the UK: its not played a whole lot.  You'll get it at international sports events and perhaps at big events that the Royals would be at but not at random Premier League games and similar things.  In Scotland I think the only time you'd ever hear God Save the Queen used as a British anthem would be for those very rare sports that Scotland doesn't compete as a separate team in and events involving the Royals: no Scottish government (and I'm including a hypothetical Conservative-led one here) would ever use it more widely than that.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Never heard of anyone kneeling for Il canto degli italiani.
I don't think I have ever heard of it getting boo'ed for political reasons either at least recently. Certainly not for regionalist causes, since South Tyrolean separatism is quite dead now - and in any case South Tyrolean teams suck at football, and pretty much every team sport.
I know there was a time when the anthem was considered "right-wing" for some reason* but I think it was ignored more than it was boo'ed, and this changed around the time I was born. I should note that technically it has only become the official anthem by law in late 2017.

*which is absolutely ludicrous to anyone who knows something about Goffredo Mameli and his ideals

[Antonio the Sixth]

Never heard of anyone kneeling for Il canto degli italiani.
I don't think I have ever heard of it getting boo'ed for political reasons either at least recently. Certainly not for regionalist causes, since South Tyrolean separatism is quite dead now - and in any case South Tyrolean teams suck at football, and pretty much every team sport.
I know there was a time when the anthem was considered "right-wing" for some reason* but I think it was ignored more than it was boo'ed, and this changed around the time I was born. I should note that technically it has only become the official anthem by law in late 2017.

*which is absolutely ludicrous to anyone who knows something about Goffredo Mameli and his ideals

Didn't the leghisti use to whistle when it played? Back in the Bossi days I mean.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Never heard of anyone kneeling for Il canto degli italiani.
I don't think I have ever heard of it getting boo'ed for political reasons either at least recently. Certainly not for regionalist causes, since South Tyrolean separatism is quite dead now - and in any case South Tyrolean teams suck at football, and pretty much every team sport.
I know there was a time when the anthem was considered "right-wing" for some reason* but I think it was ignored more than it was boo'ed, and this changed around the time I was born. I should note that technically it has only become the official anthem by law in late 2017.

*which is absolutely ludicrous to anyone who knows something about Goffredo Mameli and his ideals

Didn't the leghisti use to whistle when it played? Back in the Bossi days I mean.

Oh well, I forgot about that "separatism". Lol
I am not sure, but it's plausible. I remember more that time Bossi said something like "the Constitution? I wipe my *** with that".

[Alcibiades]

Never heard of anyone kneeling for Il canto degli italiani.
I don't think I have ever heard of it getting boo'ed for political reasons either at least recently. Certainly not for regionalist causes, since South Tyrolean separatism is quite dead now - and in any case South Tyrolean teams suck at football, and pretty much every team sport.
I know there was a time when the anthem was considered "right-wing" for some reason* but I think it was ignored more than it was boo'ed, and this changed around the time I was born. I should note that technically it has only become the official anthem by law in late 2017.

*which is absolutely ludicrous to anyone who knows something about Goffredo Mameli and his ideals

Didn't the leghisti use to whistle when it played? Back in the Bossi days I mean.

Oh well, I forgot about that "separatism". Lol
I am not sure, but it's plausible. I remember more that time Bossi said something like "the Constitution? I wipe my *** with that".

On the other side of the political spectrum, I believe Livorno fans booed during a memorial for Italian soldiers killed in Iraq before a match, although I don’t know if the national anthem was played. Probably not.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I don't recall any kneeling happening at sports events in Germany. Some black soccer players showed their solidarity with BLM by wearing messages to that effect on their jerseys during matches. I don't imagine that "keeling during the anthem" would create too much of a controversy around here. The AfD would perhaps protest it which would then lead to the other political parties denouncing the AfD as racist neo-Nazis.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

On the other side of the political spectrum, I believe Livorno fans booed during a memorial for Italian soldiers killed in Iraq before a match, although I don’t know if the national anthem was played. Probably not.

I don't think that had to do with the national anthem. I have to imagine it was just lefty anti-militarism because of course.

[Former President tack50]

I don't recall any kneeling happening at sports events in Germany. Some black soccer players showed their solidarity with BLM by wearing messages to that effect on their jerseys during matches. I don't imagine that "keeling during the anthem" would create too much of a controversy around here. The AfD would perhaps protest it which would then lead to the other political parties denouncing the AfD as racist neo-Nazis.

Doesn't that happen already anyways though?

[EastAnglianLefty]

God Save The Queen gets very aggressively booed in any Scotland-England international football game - Scotland having its own league system means that its simply never used outside the international context because as a normal country the national anthem isn't played at anything but the biggest domestic games and they use Flower of Scotland for that now.  Its not the same for Rugby but that's probably more of an indication of the differences in the class and demographic breakdown of your typical Football and Rugby crowds.  Whenever it happens though it really annoys sections of the right-wing tabloids that get offended that Scotland does not support England: same people that got annoyed at Andy Murray's "anyone but England" remark many years ago and in every major Football competition when Scots people (Scotland having inevitably failed to qualify) generally find themselves supporting Belgium or Croatia or Trinidad (fun story that one: they managed to qualify for the 2006 World Cup in a bit of a fluke; and because half their team played League Football in Scotland and because they had a player called "Jason Scotland" they were adopted as the honorary Scottish national team for that World Cup) over England.

That's actually a reason why National Anthem politics isn't a massive thing in the UK: its not played a whole lot.  You'll get it at international sports events and perhaps at big events that the Royals would be at but not at random Premier League games and similar things.  In Scotland I think the only time you'd ever hear God Save the Queen used as a British anthem would be for those very rare sports that Scotland doesn't compete as a separate team in and events involving the Royals: no Scottish government (and I'm including a hypothetical Conservative-led one here) would ever use it more widely than that.

That's part of the reason, but the other part is that nobody really likes it as an anthem. Some people get annoyed by 'disrespect', but a non-negligible proportion of them would happily agree that Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory or whatever would be a better tune to use instead.

[parochial boy]

The idea of playing the national anthem at domestic sporting events is generally seen as a pretty odd American habit. Which kind of reduces the scope for controversy to begin with.

I don't remember any domestic controversies around the Swiss one ever; but that's simply because it's not generally perceived as a particularly meaningful national symbol. They even tried to change the words a few years ago, and that basically died as a project because no-one even really worked up the energy to worry about it. The fact that basically no-one knows what comes after "Sur nos monts quand le soleil, annonce un brillant réveil" is basically something of a running joke.

Although that said, the Serbian fans did whistle it at the world cup - but that was mostly understood through the lense of ex-Yugoslav politics (which kind of says it all, really). And even then, it was something else that actually wound up creating the controversy; while the bit with the anthem was largely forgotten.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

That's part of the reason, but the other part is that nobody really likes it as an anthem. Some people get annoyed by 'disrespect', but a non-negligible proportion of them would happily agree that Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory or whatever would be a better tune to use instead.

Isn't Land of Hope and Glory a subject of controversy too because of "wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set"?
Also total non-sequitur but I often myself signing Jerusalem as a Christian hymn. I love it.

[2952-0-0]

In Canada, one line of the English version of O Canada was changed from "In all thy sons command" to "In all of us command". The Conservative party made a mealy-mouthed fuss about it, but quickly forgot it. That line was originally "Thou dost in us command".

No one cares about the reference to God in the English version. The French version makes a reference to "carrying the cross", and "keeping the faith", but no one cares about these either.

[IceAgeComing]

That's part of the reason, but the other part is that nobody really likes it as an anthem. Some people get annoyed by 'disrespect', but a non-negligible proportion of them would happily agree that Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory or whatever would be a better tune to use instead.

That's a good point that I always forget: the times when its more relevant (sports) its mainly represented England and not Britain and that means that the Scots (and the Welsh) won't treat it like their national anthem and a lot of the English are like "why are we using a British song to represent England?".  And then you get the weirdos that seem to think that all four constituent countries should use it because "ITS THE ONLY NATIONAL ANTHEM" but they are a vast, vast minority.

Not being English I don't know whether I should comment on it but I think that Jerusalem is what you should use: its historically a radical song which I will always admire but its come to be accepted by everyone: its got that sing along value that is always good plus its a good song.  Admittedly the wrestling fan in me associates the tune of "Land of Hope and Glory" to Randy Savage which inherently makes that a funnier song but not in a way that's appropriate for a national anthem.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Kneeling for the anthem has never been a thing here in Argentina AFAIK. But here have been quite a few MINOR scandals about football (⚽) not singing along the anthem, and in some cases clearly not knowing a word of it, on international matched

But it has never been turned into something political, and it doesn't transcend the orbit of discussing the topic on news and tv shows, barber shop talk a d small talk in general

[Tender Branson]

We don't have this here in Austria.

But we have a different controversy, gender-related.

About a decade ago, our national anthem was changed to include women in it:

Previously, the line was "Heimat bist du großer Söhne." (home of great sons you are.)

Now, it is "Heimat großer Töchter und Söhne." (home of great daughters and sons.)

The new version doesn't really ryhme and most people still sing the old version in football stadiums and elsewhere, while only a small amount is singing the new version.

At the same time.

So, you hear a mix of the old a new versions all the time.

When people always sing the old version it always creates headlines in newspapers

"AUSTRIANS ARE STILL SINGING THE OLD VERSION OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM !!!!! HOW STUPID AND SEXIST ARE THEYYYYY ?!?!?"

I hope you are singing the new version. Refusing to be inclusive of women because you are adhering to tradition sounds like something a Muslim would do.

I have never sung the Austrian anthem myself (why would I ?), so this question is moot.