For Secular liberal white people,

[lfromnj]

Is Wokeness basically their replacement for a religion?

Is White Privilege their version of original sin?

Discuss.

[Kuumo]

As a secular liberal (half) white person, I can confidently say no to both of those questions. I do not need wokeness and white privilege to replace religion for me. I can answer questions about where humanity and the universe came from and what is or isn't moral without looking to religion or wokeness. Maybe it's different for a handful of people on Twitter and Tumblr, but it definitely isn't true of all secular liberal white people.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This isn't a serious thread, is it?

[lfromnj]

As a secular liberal (half) white person, I can confidently say no to both of those questions. I do not need wokeness and white privilege to replace religion for me. I can answer questions about where humanity and the universe came from and what is or isn't moral without looking to religion or wokeness. Maybe it's different for a handful of people on Twitter and Tumblr, but it definitely isn't true of all secular liberal white people.

Sorry a bit too harsh with my tone. I don't think it's a religion for all agnostic/atheist white liberals. Howverr for a select group of liberals/leftists one can get that religious undertone.

[Antonio the Sixth]

No.

"X is [insert non-religious group]'s substitute for religion" is a perceptive observation at times, but it's been abused to the point of becoming a thought-terminating cliché, and this is one such example.

[Del Tachi]

No, they practice Scientism.

[afleitch]

No.

[John Dule]

No, they practice Scientism.

Ah yes, Scientism, the strange cult whose tenets require believers to wear masks in public places and remove their shoes upon entering a domicile.

[Mopsus]

Not only is it their version of Original Sin, it's their version of Total Depravity, where those found guilty of racism, whether living or dead, are judged to have no redeeming qualities and subject to any punishment imaginable (see the girl who was recently denied admission to college because she said a bad word).

[Del Tachi]

No, they practice Scientism.

Ah yes, Scientism, the strange cult whose tenets require believers to wear masks in public places and remove their shoes upon entering a domicile.

Unfortunately for you, the "science" of taking your shoes off at home is even flimsier than that saying mask-wearing makes any difference during a pandemic.

And religious scientism is simply the elevation of the scientific method as the normative standard for all human inquiry.  It reduces all knowledge and experience to that which is scientifically observable or measurable; religious beliefs are similarly reductionist.       

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

No, they practice Scientism.

Ah yes, Scientism, the strange cult whose tenets require believers to wear masks in public places and remove their shoes upon entering a domicile.

Unfortunately for you, the "science" of taking your shoes off at home is even flimsier than that saying mask-wearing makes any difference during a pandemic.       

Oh, thank goodness. We already imported one thing from Japan and look what that got us.

[The Houstonian]

A lot of "woke" people seem to think like deontologists. For example, some of them say that white people can't open a Vietnamese restaurant or that they can't wear dreadlocks.

No, they practice Scientism.

Scientism, as far as I can tell, is not related much to secularism.

[Gracile]

No, of course not. Secular people have a wide variety of personal beliefs that are difficult to put in one box, much like how it is impossible to overgeneralize all religious peoples' beliefs. It's also a bit misguided to try to frame the way certain secular people view wokeness or any other strongly held belief as a religion (and especially using Christianity as an example specifically in the case of this thread's original post). It's just another case of religious Atlas showing a poor understanding of what non-religious people value/how we follow our beliefs.

[John Dule]

Unfortunately for you, the "science" of taking your shoes off at home is even flimsier than that saying mask-wearing makes any difference during a pandemic.

Getting sick is not the primary concern. I have nice hardwood floors that are covered in antique Persian rugs. A rock that gets lodged in a shoe could scuff up the wood, and getting dirt in the rugs makes them look disgusting. Post pics of your floors. I am curious to see how filthy they look.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Unfortunately for you, the "science" of taking your shoes off at home is even flimsier than that saying mask-wearing makes any difference during a pandemic.

Getting sick is not the primary concern. I have nice hardwood floors that are covered in antique Persian rugs. A rock that gets lodged in a shoe could scuff up the wood, and getting dirt in the rugs makes them look disgusting. Post pics of your floors. I am curious to see how filthy they look.

Can you both please contain your filthy (literally) culture war all in the relevant thread? Thank you.

[swf541]

What defines secular? I dont want my religious moral values enforced (or any religious moral social values) enforced by the government but I am a very spiritual person and my political views and values are very much shaped by my interpretation of my faith.

And no, I dont think anyone replaced religion with "wokeness"

[Green Line]

I can answer for them.

Yes and yes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not only is it their version of Original Sin, it's their version of Total Depravity, where those found guilty of racism, whether living or dead, are judged to have no redeeming qualities and subject to any punishment imaginable (see the girl who was recently denied admission to college because she said a bad word).

That's not what total depravity means.

[Mopsus]

Not only is it their version of Original Sin, it's their version of Total Depravity, where those found guilty of racism, whether living or dead, are judged to have no redeeming qualities and subject to any punishment imaginable (see the girl who was recently denied admission to college because she said a bad word).

That's not what total depravity means.

Close enough.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Unfortunately for you, the "science" of taking your shoes off at home is even flimsier than that saying mask-wearing makes any difference during a pandemic.

Getting sick is not the primary concern. I have nice hardwood floors that are covered in antique Persian rugs. A rock that gets lodged in a shoe could scuff up the wood, and getting dirt in the rugs makes them look disgusting. Post pics of your floors. I am curious to see how filthy they look.

Can you both please contain your filthy (literally) culture war all in the relevant thread? Thank you.

To be fair, this isn't actually a culture war. It's just a weird obsession that 2/330,000,000 Americans happen to have for whatever bizarre reason. They just both happen to be on Atlas.

[DC Al Fine]

Not only is it their version of Original Sin, it's their version of Total Depravity, where those found guilty of racism, whether living or dead, are judged to have no redeeming qualities and subject to any punishment imaginable (see the girl who was recently denied admission to college because she said a bad word).

That's not what total depravity means.

Close enough.

No. The Reformers did not teach total depravity to mean that. The Canons of Dort are the Reformed standard that teach the doctrine in the most detail, so I will use that as my example:

Article 3
Therefore all men are conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, incapable of saving good, prone to evil, dead in sin, and in bondage thereto, and without the regenerating grace of the Holy Spirit, they are neither able nor willing to return to God, to reform the depravity of their nature, nor to dispose themselves to reformation.


Article 4
There remain, however, in man since the fall, the glimmerings of natural light, whereby he retains some knowledge of God, of natural things, and of the differences between good and evil, and discovers some regard for virtue, good order in society, and for maintaining an orderly external deportment. But so far is this light of nature from being sufficient to bring him to a saving knowledge of God, and to true conversion, that he is incapable of using it aright even in things natural and civil. Nay further, this light, such as it is, man in various ways renders wholly polluted, and holds it in unrighteousness, by doing which he becomes inexcusable before God.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Antonio rekting Mopolis on Calvinist theology is lol

[Mopsus]

No. The Reformers did not teach total depravity to mean that.

My definition comes closer to the literal meaning, which makes me the superior Protestant.

The Canons of Dort are the Reformed standard that teach the doctrine in the most detail, so I will use that as my example:

Article 3
Therefore all men are conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, incapable of saving good, prone to evil, dead in sin, and in bondage thereto, and without the regenerating grace of the Holy Spirit, they are neither able nor willing to return to God, to reform the depravity of their nature, nor to dispose themselves to reformation.


Article 4
There remain, however, in man since the fall, the glimmerings of natural light, whereby he retains some knowledge of God, of natural things, and of the differences between good and evil, and discovers some regard for virtue, good order in society, and for maintaining an orderly external deportment. But so far is this light of nature from being sufficient to bring him to a saving knowledge of God, and to true conversion, that he is incapable of using it aright even in things natural and civil. Nay further, this light, such as it is, man in various ways renders wholly polluted, and holds it in unrighteousness, by doing which he becomes inexcusable before God.

What’s the “secular liberal” version of this? “White people are too mired in systemic racism to become anti-racist on their own; it is only through the efforts of black and brown people that society can be redeemed”?

[Diabolical Materialism]

No. The Reformers did not teach total depravity to mean that.

My definition comes closer to the literal meaning, which makes me the superior Protestant.

The literal meaning of just the individual word "total" and "depravity". Sure? But that's not what is being discussed. DC Al Fine is giving you what the LITERAL MEANING of the theological phrase "total depravity" means in the specific context of Calvinist theology.

[Mopsus]

No. The Reformers did not teach total depravity to mean that.

My definition comes closer to the literal meaning, which makes me the superior Protestant.

The literal meaning of just the individual word "total" and "depravity". Sure? But that's not what is being discussed. DC Al Fine is giving you what the LITERAL MEANING of the theological phrase "total depravity" means in the specific context of Calvinist theology.

I know. That’s what makes it funny