Feminism and the ordination of women as priestesses and ministers.

[Mopsus]

Isn’t there something to be said for having one place in society that does things the way they’ve done them since time immemorial? Traditionalists understand that there are things they can’t control - will the modernists really not be satisfied until they have everything?

[Mopsus]

Well, I can't speak for all modernists, but I personally won't be satisfied until I'm God Himself.

In the religious sense or in the secular sense?

What's your life's ambition, to raise a family in a quaint Tuscan villa somewhere? That's cute.

I think you’ve taken my point to be the opposite of what it really is. My point is that no matter how confusing, fast paced, or modern your life is, traditional religion offers you exactly the same experience as was offered to Tuscan villagers a millennium ago. I think that that’s worth something immeasurable.

[Mopsus]

On any note, my problem isn't with "traditional religion" (obviously), it's ancient cultural biases that are used to reinforce existing prejudices.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but neither religious traditions where women have always served priestly functions nor indeed women serving in other positions of authority within the church (which has both Old and New Testament precedents) raises an eyebrow from me. Regardless of whether this ancient cultural bias was fair or not (neither of us really knows anything about gender in the first century Greco-Roman world), to change policies now, two millennia later, seems distastefully political to me and many others.

[Mopsus]

We actually do know a little bit about understandings of gender, as well as sex, in ancient times. For example, pre-adoption of the Visigothic Code, the criteria for "maleness" demanded that an individual be attracted to women (independent of whether he is also attracted to men) in addition to possessing male genitalia. Sex between men was seen in the same light as heterosexual sex: one as the "receiver" or non-dominant lover. Sex between two women was not considered sex at all, because sex had to involve an ejaculating penis to actually be called sex.

The point being, cultural understandings of gender roles have evolved throughout history. We don't designate eunuchs in their own gender category anymore. We've separated gender entirely from sexual preferences.

Morality with regard to gender roles or sex must be understood in the context of the wisdom of the era. Changing policies to reflect that is not a bad thing.

What I'm getting at is that neither of us has firsthand knowledge of Greco-Roman gender roles, so we don't really know why it was inappropriate for women to serve as Father in the dispensation of the sacraments, but I'm guessing it had something to do with the same mystification of the family that led to the Church being described as the Bridegroom of Christ. I wonder how many holy metaphors you can chip away before you get to the foundations of the thing.