Feminism and the ordination of women as priestesses and ministers.

[Kingpoleon]

How do you square that with the Bible?

There is a higher law than even Scripture, and those who proclaim that Scripture is the universal, literal, whole, and highest law make a claim about the Bible that it does not make about itself.

I square it the same way I do when Paul forbids women from wearing jewelry - certainly applicable to the specific group in the specific time he was writing to. However, Paul himself also speaks of several ordained women. Furthermore, my conscience not only neutrally dissents from those who forbid the ordination of women - it outright demands such ordination. I would view myself as being guilty before my mother, my female pastor, my grandmother, and many other women if I told them that I was more qualified for the priesthood than they are. Indeed, if I told my mother that, I would expect to get slapped.

Sexism is a sin, and to partake in it on God’s behalf is the highest form of blasphemy.

[Kingpoleon]

How do you square that with the Bible?

There is a higher law than even Scripture, and those who proclaim that Scripture is the universal, literal, whole, and highest law make a claim about the Bible that it does not make about itself.

What is the higher law?  And how can we know it?

I square it the same way I do when Paul forbids women from wearing jewelry - certainly applicable to the specific group in the specific time he was writing to.

That was written in the context of modesty.

However, Paul himself also speaks of several ordained women.

When?  Because afaik there's no evidence of female priests or pastors in the early church.  Female deacons did exist, on the other hand.

”In the context of modesty” means nothing. If you hold the writings of Paul to be authoritative in doctrine, then women are forbidden from wearing jewelry and men from having long hair.

Junia, in Romans 16, is referred to as an apostle. This is a title given to the Twelve, to Paul, to Barnabas, Silas, Andronicus, Timothy, and to her. Priscilla, too, is sometimes considered to have been a presbyter. Junia, given the title of apostle, becomes equal in rank with the authors of Scripture.

Furthermore, Sarah Crosby was the first female preacher in the modern age, and she was granted such license by John Wesley. Sojourner Truth, one of the greatest preachers in American history, was a black woman ordered to preach by God in a vision. Given her testimony, I hesitate to decry such visions as false.

[Kingpoleon]

Serious question: would you then not be Christian until contemporary times? I'm not aware, nor is a precursory research, of any form of Christianity that would have ordained women until very recently. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but Christianity seems central to your identity. I'm just curious how you would reconcile the historical lack of the practice with this ultimatum.

Methodists began ordaining women 200 years before most medical/law schools began accepting them; Quakers began having female preachers a hundred years before that. In this area, parts of the Protestant Church were miles ahead of the secular world.

IIRC Junia is only referred to as an apostle in certain translations.  Some say that the passage is actually referring to a man named Junias.  I'm less interested in what later Christians did concerning this issue.

Some say that, but the name Junias is not recorded by Roman censuses in the first century. By contrast, Junia was a pretty common female name. Furthermore, all of the earliest Romans texts give the name Junia - it takes several hundred years for a monk to add an S to make it male.


For those not familiar with Sojourner Truth (Egypt refers to the identification of slaves with the Israelites in slavery):
“My name was Isabella; but when I left the house of bondage, I left everything behind. I wasn’t going to keep nothing of Egypt on me, and so I went to the Lord and asked Him to give me a new name. And the Lord gave me Sojourner, because I was to travel up and down the land, showing the people their sins, and being a sign unto them. Afterwards I told the Lord I wanted another name, ‘cause everybody else had two names; and the Lord gave me Truth, because I was to declare the truth to His people.”

“I carry no weapon; the Lord will preserve me without weapons. I feel safe in the midst of my enemies; for the truth is powerful and will prevail.”

1844, Northampton, Massachusetts: At a camp meeting where she was participating as an itinerant preacher, a band of young white men disrupted the camp meeting, refused to leave, and threatened to burn down the tents. Truth caught the sense of fear pervading the worshipers and hid behind a trunk in her tent, thinking that since she was the only black person present, the mob would attack her first. However, she reasoned with herself and resolved to do something: as the noise of the mob increased and a female preacher was trembling on the preachers' stand, Truth went to a small hill and began to sing "in her most fervid manner, with all the strength of her most powerful voice, the hymn on the resurrection of Christ". Her song, "It was Early in the Morning", gathered the rioters to her and quieted them. They urged her to sing, preach, and pray for their entertainment. After singing songs and preaching for about an hour, Truth bargained with them to leave after one final song. The mob agreed and left the camp meeting.

A bunch of violent thugs, who may have lynched her, were more supportive of a woman preacher than many of you. I will let this fact speak for itself and itself alone.

[Kingpoleon]

The feminist position is to seek the destruction of organized religion, not to try to get equality within it, since organized religion as an institution is inherently and inseparably designed in such a way as to subjugate women into sub-human roles in society.

Aren't women twenty percent more religious than men are?