Israel General Elections || 23.03.2021
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May 09, 2021, 06:52:20 PM

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  Israel General Elections || 23.03.2021
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Author Topic: Israel General Elections || 23.03.2021  (Read 31052 times)
Velasco
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« Reply #700 on: April 30, 2021, 04:06:13 PM »
« edited: April 30, 2021, 05:03:05 PM by Velasco »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
While you for sure are one of the best posters on here, your stance on Israel is disturbing. Especially coming from a Spaniard, a country which actively denies the right to self determination to Basques and Catalans, and doesn't recognize the right to unilateral secession (Kosovo). Why are Palestinians worthy of a state while others aren't?

I think talking about Basque Country and Catalonia in relation to the situation of Israel-Palestine is mixing apples and oranges. I have no problem in discussing if Basques and Catalans have the right to self-determination (surely I stated my opinion on this subject more than once), but regardless what you may think, the population of these regions is not living under an oppressive military dictatorship, apartheid or colonial regime. Catalans and Basques are Spanish citizens enjoying full rights. I know, the Spanish government is contrary to the indy-ref, but even separatists live in a democratic state and are protected from abuse by the laws ruling for all. Trying to compare these realities with the situation of a stateless people submitted to a brutal military occupation -under an apartheid or a colonial regime- must be a joke, because otherwise I don't understand what are you trying to mean with your post.

I don't support unilateral seccession as a general rule (I'm in the opinion these processes must be negotiated), even though I admit the situation of Kosovo was special because of the blatant oppression by the Milosevic regime. These matters are complex. As for the Palestinians, rather than a separate state for them, I simply advocate they enjoy the same status of the Jewish Israelis. The fact the former are not allowed to do the same things the latter are permitted, is the most obvious evidence of the existence of an apartheid regime.  Do you think is disturbing that Palestinians are allowed to vote the government that rules over their lives?
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #701 on: April 30, 2021, 05:07:49 PM »

TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT jews don't have the right to self determination TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
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MaxQue
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« Reply #702 on: April 30, 2021, 05:11:27 PM »

TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT jews don't have the right to self determination TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT

Israelis have a right to self-determination. However, neither the West Bank or Gaza are Israeli.
Quebec have a right to self-determination, not but not a right to take New Brunswick with them if they decide to leave Canada.
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Anyone But Yang!
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« Reply #703 on: April 30, 2021, 05:35:33 PM »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
While you for sure are one of the best posters on here, your stance on Israel is disturbing. Especially coming from a Spaniard, a country which actively denies the right to self determination to Basques and Catalans, and doesn't recognize the right to unilateral secession (Kosovo). Why are Palestinians worthy of a state while others aren't?

I think talking about Basque Country and Catalonia in relation to the situation of Israel-Palestine is mixing apples and oranges. I have no problem in discussing if Basques and Catalans have the right to self-determination (surely I stated my opinion on this subject more than once), but regardless what you may think, the population of these regions is not living under an oppressive military dictatorship, apartheid or colonial regime.Catalans and Basques are Spanish citizens enjoying full rights. I know, the Spanish government is contrary to the indy-ref, but even separatists live in a democratic state and are protected from abuse by the laws ruling for all. Trying to compare these realities with the situation of a stateless people submitted to a brutal military occupation -under an apartheid or a colonial regime- must be a joke, because otherwise I don't understand what are you trying to mean with your post.

I don't support unilateral seccession as a general rule (I'm in the opinion these processes must be negotiated), even though I admit the situation of Kosovo was special because of the blatant oppression by the Milosevic regime. These matters are complex. As for the Palestinians, rather than a separate state for them, I simply advocate they enjoy the same status of the Jewish Israelis. The fact the former are not allowed to do the same things the latter are permitted, is the most obvious evidence of the existence of an apartheid regime.  Do you think is disturbing that Palestinians are allowed to vote the government that rules over their lives?

Neither do the Palestinians Roll Eyes
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PSOL
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« Reply #704 on: April 30, 2021, 06:11:16 PM »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
While you for sure are one of the best posters on here, your stance on Israel is disturbing. Especially coming from a Spaniard, a country which actively denies the right to self determination to Basques and Catalans, and doesn't recognize the right to unilateral secession (Kosovo). Why are Palestinians worthy of a state while others aren't?
Velasco has no relation to the leaders deciding that in Spain, and I fail to see the relevance in bringing up Spain with no prior discussion or tie-in to the flow of this thread.

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omar04
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« Reply #705 on: April 30, 2021, 09:32:33 PM »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
While you for sure are one of the best posters on here, your stance on Israel is disturbing. Especially coming from a Spaniard, a country which actively denies the right to self determination to Basques and Catalans, and doesn't recognize the right to unilateral secession (Kosovo). Why are Palestinians worthy of a state while others aren't?

I think talking about Basque Country and Catalonia in relation to the situation of Israel-Palestine is mixing apples and oranges. I have no problem in discussing if Basques and Catalans have the right to self-determination (surely I stated my opinion on this subject more than once), but regardless what you may think, the population of these regions is not living under an oppressive military dictatorship, apartheid or colonial regime.Catalans and Basques are Spanish citizens enjoying full rights. I know, the Spanish government is contrary to the indy-ref, but even separatists live in a democratic state and are protected from abuse by the laws ruling for all. Trying to compare these realities with the situation of a stateless people submitted to a brutal military occupation -under an apartheid or a colonial regime- must be a joke, because otherwise I don't understand what are you trying to mean with your post.

I don't support unilateral seccession as a general rule (I'm in the opinion these processes must be negotiated), even though I admit the situation of Kosovo was special because of the blatant oppression by the Milosevic regime. These matters are complex. As for the Palestinians, rather than a separate state for them, I simply advocate they enjoy the same status of the Jewish Israelis. The fact the former are not allowed to do the same things the latter are permitted, is the most obvious evidence of the existence of an apartheid regime.  Do you think is disturbing that Palestinians are allowed to vote the government that rules over their lives?

Neither do the Palestinians Roll Eyes

Untrue.
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PSOL
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« Reply #706 on: April 30, 2021, 10:03:26 PM »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
While you for sure are one of the best posters on here, your stance on Israel is disturbing. Especially coming from a Spaniard, a country which actively denies the right to self determination to Basques and Catalans, and doesn't recognize the right to unilateral secession (Kosovo). Why are Palestinians worthy of a state while others aren't?

I think talking about Basque Country and Catalonia in relation to the situation of Israel-Palestine is mixing apples and oranges. I have no problem in discussing if Basques and Catalans have the right to self-determination (surely I stated my opinion on this subject more than once), but regardless what you may think, the population of these regions is not living under an oppressive military dictatorship, apartheid or colonial regime.Catalans and Basques are Spanish citizens enjoying full rights. I know, the Spanish government is contrary to the indy-ref, but even separatists live in a democratic state and are protected from abuse by the laws ruling for all. Trying to compare these realities with the situation of a stateless people submitted to a brutal military occupation -under an apartheid or a colonial regime- must be a joke, because otherwise I don't understand what are you trying to mean with your post.

I don't support unilateral seccession as a general rule (I'm in the opinion these processes must be negotiated), even though I admit the situation of Kosovo was special because of the blatant oppression by the Milosevic regime. These matters are complex. As for the Palestinians, rather than a separate state for them, I simply advocate they enjoy the same status of the Jewish Israelis. The fact the former are not allowed to do the same things the latter are permitted, is the most obvious evidence of the existence of an apartheid regime.  Do you think is disturbing that Palestinians are allowed to vote the government that rules over their lives?

Neither do the Palestinians Roll Eyes

Untrue.
No, itís true. Since the surrender of Barghouti and Saadat, itís clear that the leadership of the Palestinian Authority have inadvertently became the official leadership of the Israeli-recognized bantustans.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #707 on: May 01, 2021, 02:16:39 AM »

I think it's amazing to see how passionate can be the discussion  on whether the leader of the National (Netanyahu) or the Conservative (Bennett) parties become PM, using the Afrikaner nationalist equivalents to Likud and Yamina. In the end, this situation of endless deadlock and election repetitions is a mere symptom of some malfunction
To be fair, this ignores that Lapid (~Democratic Party) is also likely to become the PM, and that leftist and Arab parties are somewhat significant.

The equivalences are not complete (they never are), for Israel has proportional representation and a multi-party political system (not to mention the oddity of Shas and UTJ).

 Lapid is not the equivalent to a Democratic Party leader,  because his political faction has never questioned the apartheid state. The only loose equivalent to that liberal party in Israeli politics is Meretz. On the other hand, the Zionist left is irrelevant these days (Labor is a walking corpse). In the past the zionist faction reprsesented by Ben Gurion and and his successors was somewhat reminiscent of the United Party (imo), while the rightwing revisionist faction has a clear counterpart in the National Party.

Finally the 'Arab' parties are systematically ignored, so their role in Israeli politics is anecdotal, aside from voicing their opposition to apartheid (I value the role of Odeh, but he's powerless). For that matter,  they could be part of a 'colored' chamber
This is like a comment written in late 2019. We're basically having our second realignment and you haven't a clue on what you're talking about now
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Hash
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« Reply #708 on: May 01, 2021, 05:59:55 PM »

This discussion is getting out of hand and is off-topic. Keep this thread on topic please. Further posts which continue this discussion will be deleted and potentially infracted.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #709 on: May 03, 2021, 03:45:12 AM »

Likud is quite desperate atm to prevent the mandate from going to Lapid thus closing any option for a Bibi government. The spins are fantastic (literary sense), they will recommend Bennett, then they'll recommend Shaked, sending every Rabbi to press Smotric, and so on.

I think Lapid should insist on him taking the mandate only to allow the pressure on Bennett to be reduced during the crunch time of negotiations. And also sideline Shaked who is sabotaging things from the inside.
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AelroseB
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« Reply #710 on: May 03, 2021, 07:44:46 AM »



My oh my how the tables turn.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #711 on: May 03, 2021, 08:10:02 AM »


My oh my how the tables turn.

Hopefully Lapid can be the King David to Bennet's Saul!
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jaymichaud
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« Reply #712 on: May 03, 2021, 12:05:03 PM »



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Estrella ✯
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« Reply #713 on: May 03, 2021, 12:18:09 PM »

I have to wonder if they're real leaks or "leaks" as a way of saying things you can't say openly.
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1,066,892 Likud voters can't be wrong!
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« Reply #714 on: May 03, 2021, 12:27:25 PM »

Et tu, Ayelet? Beautiful to see.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #715 on: May 03, 2021, 02:31:24 PM »

Ayelet taped herself and gave it to Segal. Clear cut
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #716 on: May 03, 2021, 05:52:34 PM »


She's not wrong. Nevertheless, she's also still f**king insane.
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Mike88
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« Reply #717 on: May 03, 2021, 06:14:10 PM »

This is turning into a full blown Mexican soap opera.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #718 on: May 04, 2021, 06:12:38 AM »
« Edited: May 04, 2021, 06:40:37 AM by Hnv1 »

This is turning into a full blown Mexican soap opera.
The level of obstructionism Likud are willing to go into is insane. They might talk their 52 bloc to recommend Bennett with no Bona Fide just to block Lapid. Saar must no play along and Rivlin to not shy away from declaring support in bad faith to be null.
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Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #719 on: May 04, 2021, 06:22:52 AM »

There's more intrigue going on here than in three Cold War spy thrillers combined.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #720 on: May 04, 2021, 09:03:41 AM »

This is getting absurd. Tal Shalev who usually has good intel within Likud is saying Bibi will declare "he formed a government" meaning he has 7 days to present it to a confidence vote merely to postpone the mandate returning to the president.

That must be reviewed by the SC, this is bending the constitutional norms beyond recognition.
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Parrotguy
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« Reply #721 on: May 04, 2021, 10:31:41 AM »

Likud have presented before the Knesset Committee a whole bunch of radical right-wing wishlist laws such as weakining the judiciary, legalizing the settlements and death sentence to terrorists that they refused to do in over a decade in office (as well as an attempted coup against Kahol Lavan- laws to abolish the coalition agreement with them). Right-wingers in Yamina, New Hope and Yisrael Beiteinu are supporting many of these laws, the settlement legalization for example has been fast-tracked and will go to a full vote tomorrow.

This looks to me like Bibi trying to literally burn down the house before he leaves (there's a reason he never did any of these things) and put a wrench in the change bloc.

Idk if this is all a spin or if this psychopathic wishlist can actually become law.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #722 on: May 04, 2021, 10:51:16 AM »
« Edited: May 04, 2021, 11:11:39 AM by Hnv1 »

Likud have presented before the Knesset Committee a whole bunch of radical right-wing wishlist laws such as weakining the judiciary, legalizing the settlements and death sentence to terrorists that they refused to do in over a decade in office (as well as an attempted coup against Kahol Lavan- laws to abolish the coalition agreement with them). Right-wingers in Yamina, New Hope and Yisrael Beiteinu are supporting many of these laws, the settlement legalization for example has been fast-tracked and will go to a full vote tomorrow.

This looks to me like Bibi trying to literally burn down the house before he leaves (there's a reason he never did any of these things) and put a wrench in the change bloc.


Idk if this is all a spin or if this psychopathic wishlist can actually become law.
It's just a way to put a wedge between them and the Lapid bloc. but it's merely a vote in the house committee, none of them can be fast-tracked in the house in less than a month and the house committee will change heads with the mandate moving.
Another desperate move. Bennett and Saar both said that a unity government wouldn't touch any of them. So everyone is fully aware now will become full legislation.

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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #723 on: May 04, 2021, 04:29:10 PM »

Mandate has returned to Rivlin, and will likely pass to the Lapid-Bennett alliance.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #724 on: May 04, 2021, 04:47:25 PM »

Mandate has returned to Rivlin, and will likely pass to the Lapid-Bennett alliance.

How likely is it that the Lapid-Bennett alliance produces a government?
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