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January 20, 2021, 06:10:08 AM
News: Chaos in the capitol: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=422360

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderator: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  HB 27-06: Congressional Reform Resolution (Passed)
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Author Topic: HB 27-06: Congressional Reform Resolution (Passed)  (Read 1252 times)
SevenEleven
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« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2021, 11:03:28 PM »

Would it change people's mind if I write:

"and there is more than one piece of legislation in the queue for the Senate passed legislation slots"

That is when the no debate vote could happen, because there are bills waiting. In other times we have time to properly debate. I forgot to add the queue was for Senate passed legislation because the sentence started with bills originated in the other house.

No, it won't change any ones mind because we don't need unnecessary stalling when there's plenty of debate to read through. If a bill wasn't properly debated in the senate, it says more about bicameralism than it does about how this House should operate.
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Oregon Blue Dog
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« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2021, 11:08:35 PM »

I concur with the Speaker. I have heard enough on this bill and am prepared to move to final vote - hence, my motion.
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Representative Joseph Cao
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« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2021, 01:21:22 AM »

Aye. Personally, I think Poirot has made himself clear and it would be highly unwise to assume either house would always be in a position to debate properly. And that's still better than a scenario where all it would take for a bad bill to become law would be one house's failure to debate properly!
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2021, 12:17:05 AM »

The amendment fails 2-5-0-2. Debate resumes.
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Oregon Blue Dog
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« Reply #79 on: January 13, 2021, 12:17:40 AM »

Motion for final vote, again.
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #80 on: January 13, 2021, 12:18:28 AM »


24 hours to object to OBD's motion.
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Poirot
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« Reply #81 on: January 13, 2021, 05:45:22 PM »

Quote
we don't need unnecessary stalling when there's plenty of debate to read through.

The usual complaint is there is not enough participation and debate. I guess now we prefer silence and quick votes.
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Oregon Blue Dog
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« Reply #82 on: January 13, 2021, 05:57:11 PM »

This has been on the floor for a month and there's been four pages of debate. Don't think that counts as a quick vote, buddy!
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Poirot
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« Reply #83 on: January 13, 2021, 06:20:28 PM »

I thought the stalling comment was on procedure in general but if it was on this specific bill, I have not seen stalling. If my amendments are considered stalling, it's insulting.
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Oregon Blue Dog
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« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2021, 07:11:51 PM »

I call it like I see it!
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2021, 12:18:59 AM »


Seeing no objection, we will begin a 72-hour final vote on this legislation. Representatives, please vote aye, nay, or abstain.
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Oregon Blue Dog
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« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2021, 12:20:36 AM »

Aye!
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FalterinArc
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« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2021, 12:21:02 AM »

Aye!
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2021, 12:35:17 AM »

Aye.
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Harvey Updyke Jr🌹
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« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2021, 07:47:02 PM »

AYE.
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Poirot
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« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2021, 09:13:23 PM »

Nay

If the House needs to move more quickly to debate legislation passed in the Senate the Speaker or VP or a concerned legislator can raise the problem so the House can take action. That is the voluntary collective effort option. There are also rules  like in Article 4 Section 3 of the House rules and procedures to cloture debate. That is a legislative rule option if needed. At least there is a minimum time of debate on the legislative floor. What this reform does is give people the power to not let a bill passed by the Senate be brought on the House floor. This can be done to the detriment of some Representatives who would like to debate or amend a piece of legislation. That is our role as legislators.

I believe if there are two legislative chambers a bill should be brought to the two legislative floors for examination and debate. I am for the liberty of debate and for the activity the debate brings. I find it anti-game to stop some legilsation from being on the floor. I proposed amendments to limit the scope of this new rule and they were rejected. I proposed getting to a final only when no House member objected, or when there was a queue for the slots reserved for Senate passed legislation. So I vote Nay because this reform goes against my vision of the game, the role of legislators and being fun for everyone.
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razze
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« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2021, 10:17:39 PM »

Aye
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2021, 12:33:57 AM »

By a vote of 5-1-0-3, this passes.

I do see what Poirot is saying. I've changed the bill to try and meet him in the middle, and if it turns out in a few months that the new system isn't working, I'm happy to eat crow. But for now, I'm looking forward to giving the new system a chance.
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Representative Joseph Cao
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« Reply #93 on: January 17, 2021, 12:36:35 AM »

It seems I am three minutes late. Anyway, even if my vote no longer counts, I wanted to make my thoughts clear on this.

Where we've ended up is, on the face of it, fairly similar to the cloture and debate-waiving rules currently on the books. However, the resolution gives a partisan majority in either chamber the power to ram a bill through by sacrificing healthy debate – debate that would make a bill better for the people it serves – without adding much in the way of "more efficient legislation"; nothing not already covered by our existing rules, at any rate. This is a long-term sacrifice of legislative ability that lacks substantial return and I don't think I could have voted in good conscience for the final version of this bill.

Nay.
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Ted Bessell
tedbessell
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« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2021, 12:52:22 AM »

Quote
A RESOLUTION
To reduce gridlock and streamline Congressional rule changes

Be it resolved by the House of Representatives and Senate assembled:
Quote
Section 1. Title

1. This legislation may be cited as the Congressional Reform Resolution of 2021.

Quote
Section 2. Amendment to Senate Rules

1. Article 11 of the New Senate Rules Resolution is amended to read as follows.

Quote from: Article 11: Relationship within the Congress
...
5.) Whenever either house shall consider a bill, order, or resolution that shall have originated in the other, the President of the Congress shall immediately call a vote in that house on whether to immediately pass the legislation, or further debate it.
a.) The President of Congress shall maintain a single thread in which to preside over these votes as held by both houses, and shall regularly update the title of the thread to inform the Congress of what legislation is being considered in which house.
b.) Should the house vote to debate the legislation further, debate shall proceed in a separate thread as established elsewhere in these rules.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 4-2 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,


Quote
Section 3. Amendment to House Rules

1. Article 10 of the House of the Representatives Rules and Procedures for Operation is amended to read as follows.

Quote from: Article 10: Relationship within the Congress
...
5.) Whenever either house shall consider a bill, order, or resolution that shall have originated in the other, following a 48-hour period in which Congress may discuss, but not formally move to modify, the legislation,the President of the Congress shall call a vote in that house on whether to immediately pass the legislation, or further debate it.
a.) Should the house vote to debate the legislation further, debate shall proceed in a separate thread as established elsewhere in these rules.
b.) These votes shall be known as "initial cloture" votes.

People's House of Representatives
Passed 5-1-0-3 in the People's House of Representatives Assembled,
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