Libertarian Party Inside Baseball Politics Thread

[Not Me, Us]

The Mises caucus are going to absolutely destroy any chance of the Libertarians becoming a viable party. If they want to succeed, they need to be a party for disaffected socially liberal and fiscally conservative Republicans, not for weirdoes who boo drivers' licenses.

[PSOL]

The Mises caucus are going to absolutely destroy any chance of the Libertarians becoming a viable party. If they want to succeed, they need to be a party for disaffected socially liberal and fiscally conservative Republicans, not for weirdoes who boo drivers' licenses.

So far they’ve been rapidly growing in membership and officeholders by eschewing the Republican-lite label of running said people. Moderation here would be counterintuitive when the most Laissez-faire absolutists did the best in the historic cycle of 2020. That and the Mises caucus are the socially conservative wing, minimally speaking, and they did manage to take control of most of the party. Sidelining them would cause an even greater civil war than in the Green Party, possibly tearing the organization apart as the Progressive Labor Party’s Workers-Student alliance did to the SDS by alienating the other factions.

[PSOL]

There is a newly elected LP Chair, former LP Texas Chair Whitney Bilyeu.

Anyone know anything about her or how the vote went?

[StateBoiler]

There is a newly elected LP Chair, former LP Texas Chair Whitney Bilyeu.

Anyone know anything about her or how the vote went?

https://independentpoliticalreport.com/2021/07/lnc-taps-whitney-bilyeu-of-texas-as-new-chair/

The Libertarian National Committee has announced that Whitney Bilyeu of Texas will serve as the new Chair of the LNC.

“Her natural ability to lead and her drive for excellence make her an outstanding choice for the position,” the LNC said via press release.

The LNC convened a special session to fill the vacancy left by Joe Bishop-Henchman’s resignation in June. Over the previous two weeks, members of the committee nominated candidates to fill the position. LNC members used RCV (ranked-choice voting) to select their preferred candidate from the pool of nominees or to select NOTA (None of the Above). Should NOTA have prevailed, Acting Chair Ken Moellman would have continued to serve in his capacity until the national convention in May of 2022.

“The Libertarian National Committee, and the Libertarian Party as a whole, is emerging from a trying time,” said Bilyeu. “It is, however, far from the most tumultuous in the Party’s long history. I accept the great honor to lead this committee as Chair with the optimism that, united by our common principles, we emerge from the divisions and uncertainties of the past month with a renewed commitment to each other in our shared cause. It is a testament to our growth and strength as a Party that the good work of our activists, affiliates, and staff all around the country has continued unabated throughout. It is that same strength and perseverance that will continue to carry us forward. I would like to express my deepest gratitude to Vice-Chair Ken Moellman for bearing the burdens of this past month with dignity, compassion, and unstinting diligence as we work toward solutions to the challenges we confront. I look forward to continuing to work with Mr. Moellman, the other members of the LNC, our affiliates, and our staff. We have great things ahead of us as a Party and, together, I know we will accomplish them.”

Bilyeu is the current Region 7 Representative to the LNC and also the Chair of Texas LP. In 2020 she was a candidate for Texas State Board of Education in District 6, winning 2.9% of the vote in a tightly contested race. Republican Will Hickman won that election with 49.8%, defeating Democrat Michelle Palmer who captured 47.4% of the vote.

“Ms. Bilyeu’s wide breadth of experience at all levels of the party will be invaluable to understanding and engaging with our affiliates, our members, our candidates, and our supporters,” added Tyler Harris, the LP’s Executive Director. “The Libertarian Party has a proud 50-year legacy of advocacy for individual liberty and of challenging the omnipotent state. I congratulate Whitney on taking a place in that legacy as the party’s 21st National Chair. I look forward to working together on the critical work so important to executing the vision of our Party: supporting over 230 elected officials around the country, expanding our party infrastructure and activity at the grassroots level, running energetic and successful campaigns, growing the party’s legislative impact, and spreading a message of liberty.”

The LP of Indiana State Central Committee has a meeting about their reaction to the whole deal on Youtube I still need to watch (about an hour).

[StateBoiler]

This episode of the Chris Spangle Show had a discussion with a bunch of guys that have been around forever at high levels to discuss the history of political infighting in the party. They don't talk about the LPNH shenanigans and who was right vs. wrong as it was still going on, but the front half tackles activism and the Mises Caucus. In the back half of the podcast however is a small amount of discussion on the Dallas Accords and then a very detailed "what the hell happened" at the 1983 Libertarian Convention where the party split. I didn't know this, but there was a consensus candidate for the 1984 presidency race at the 1983 Convention. A week before the Convention, he dropped out. And this is all pre-internet and the media wasn't covering the inner workings of the Libertarian presidential nomination, so delegates travelled to the Convention, showed up, and learned there that what they thought was going to happen for the presidential nomination was not the case at all.

https://wearelibertarians.com/css-a-brief-history-of-libertarian-party-infighting/

[StateBoiler]

National Secretary Caryn Ann Harlos suspended a few days ago by a supermajority vote 11-2-1 of the National Committee. This is aftermath of the New Hampshire stuff and Joe Bishop-Henchman resigning as National Party Chair. Harlos would be on the anti-JBH side of things. Not sure if she's Mises Caucus or Radical Caucus. Imagine the most perfectly competent secretary at doing her job but is a complete asshole to everyone that disagrees with her...with pink hair.

Her and JBH both gone probably right result in the end. I have no doubt she'll seek a comeback at the 2022 Reno National Convention.

[PSOL]

Looks like things will get very nasty. According to rumors she went off after the ruling

Predictably, Harlos is losing her mind… vowing to get even (“bitches!”), denouncing the 11 or 12 members who wouldn’t stand by her as corrupt actors and scumbags, railing about too many “soy boys” in the party, and cackling about her Mises Caucus friends replacing all her LNC enemies in Reno.

From LP insiders

[StateBoiler]

Looks like things will get very nasty. According to rumors she went off after the ruling

Predictably, Harlos is losing her mind… vowing to get even (“bitches!”), denouncing the 11 or 12 members who wouldn’t stand by her as corrupt actors and scumbags, railing about too many “soy boys” in the party, and cackling about her Mises Caucus friends replacing all her LNC enemies in Reno.

From LP insiders

My current state party chair in Indiana, Evan McMahon, ran against her for National Secretary at the 2020 Convention. He stated all this in his reaction video on Youtube to the LNC/LPNH aftermath. Good view on all that in a stepping back from it and take a breath way: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bQBF8UqNZe0&t=3s . The main reason he said he ran against Harlos was he did not agree with how she treated people and did her job. Harlos' response to this was people knew she was this way, and were okay with it because she got elected to the job. She won 461-417.

The party officers other than National Chair are all elected via approval voting. So we'll see.

By the way, if you ever want the clearest case of a person writing their own biography in a wiki, check out Caryn Ann Harlos' at LPedia. https://lpedia.org/wiki/Caryn_Ann_Harlos

[ElectionsGuy]

The Mises Caucus is absolutely taking over the party. And good for them, the LP has been pathetic these past few years, especially with frauds like Sarwark and Bishop-Henchman at the helm.

The LNC suspension of Harlos is bullsh**t too, the corrupt "establishment" of the LP is desperately trying to do anything to prevent the Mises Caucus from taking over. Watch what happens in May 2022.

[StateBoiler]

The Mises Caucus is absolutely taking over the party. And good for them, the LP has been pathetic these past few years, especially with frauds like Sarwark and Bishop-Henchman at the helm.

The LNC suspension of Harlos is bullsh**t too, the corrupt "establishment" of the LP is desperately trying to do anything to prevent the Mises Caucus from taking over. Watch what happens in May 2022.

There's no such thing as an LP establishment. Go listen to about a dozen Chris Spangle podcasts for why, because he's railed on it for quite awhile when hearing this.

As far as Harlos, choosing to be an asshole to your peers and selective enforcement of rules depending on when it benefits you and when it does not has always been a great way to find yourself fired in any line of work. JBH was wrong for what he did and resigned. Harlos was wrong in what she did too.

The 2022 Convention will be something. Depends on which side is motivated enough to become delegates and willing to take a trip to Reno, Nevada.

[ElectionsGuy]

The Mises Caucus is absolutely taking over the party. And good for them, the LP has been pathetic these past few years, especially with frauds like Sarwark and Bishop-Henchman at the helm.

The LNC suspension of Harlos is bullsh**t too, the corrupt "establishment" of the LP is desperately trying to do anything to prevent the Mises Caucus from taking over. Watch what happens in May 2022.

There's no such thing as an LP establishment. Go listen to about a dozen Chris Spangle podcasts for why, because he's railed on it for quite awhile when hearing this.

As far as Harlos, choosing to be an asshole to your peers and selective enforcement of rules depending on when it benefits you and when it does not has always been a great way to find yourself fired in any line of work. JBH was wrong for what he did and resigned. Harlos was wrong in what she did too.

The 2022 Convention will be something. Depends on which side is motivated enough to become delegates and willing to take a trip to Reno, Nevada.

Yeah, I put it in parenthesis for a reason. The LP has no power, but the people currently at the top of the party are VERY out of touch with the base of party members. So it works very much the same way that the current Republican establishment does.

As far as Harlos goes, she's always been provocative and rowdy. It's who she is, and people have known that for a long time. I don't know what she actually *did* other than say mean words about the other members on social media. It's a dumb charge for an ideology that is supposed to be above speech/decorum concerns. This isn't a normal workplace, a number of delegates gather and elect these people, so they expect to fill out the full term and have a functioning officer. When it's said and done, I think she'll be back and many of the people who booted her will not.

[StateBoiler]

The Mises Caucus is absolutely taking over the party. And good for them, the LP has been pathetic these past few years, especially with frauds like Sarwark and Bishop-Henchman at the helm.

The LNC suspension of Harlos is bullsh**t too, the corrupt "establishment" of the LP is desperately trying to do anything to prevent the Mises Caucus from taking over. Watch what happens in May 2022.

There's no such thing as an LP establishment. Go listen to about a dozen Chris Spangle podcasts for why, because he's railed on it for quite awhile when hearing this.

As far as Harlos, choosing to be an asshole to your peers and selective enforcement of rules depending on when it benefits you and when it does not has always been a great way to find yourself fired in any line of work. JBH was wrong for what he did and resigned. Harlos was wrong in what she did too.

The 2022 Convention will be something. Depends on which side is motivated enough to become delegates and willing to take a trip to Reno, Nevada.

Yeah, I put it in parenthesis for a reason. The LP has no power, but the people currently at the top of the party are VERY out of touch with the base of party members. So it works very much the same way that the current Republican establishment does.

Then elect new ones. It's not like this is the DNC and RNC where they keep the grassroots out of decision making as much as possible. JBH was elected at Convention last year by a majority of delegates. In most states, all it takes to become a delegate is interest to be one. You want to be a delegate from Wisconsin and vote all these people out, go do it. There's nothing stopping you other than yourself.

I just don't understand the goal of the insurgent Mises Caucus. Take control of the Libertarian Party? Okay, then what? What does control mean? What on the platform or bylaws are they changing via 2/3rds approval at a Convention? What in the Statement of Principles are they changing via 7/8ths approval at a Convention? Be an asshole on Twitter like happened in New Hampshire? I can go to the TalkElections forum and get that level of insight, but like those people you're never going to accomplish anything in life.

The Mises Caucus and the national Libertarian Party have literally next to zero impact in Indiana or on me running my county party chapter, mostly due to libertarians do not believe in greater centralized power. That's why everyone turned against the actions of JBH was because he tried to push himself into the "sovereign" affairs of a state party affiliate. My concerns are replacing the Democratic Party as the #2 party in my area because they put forth zero effort in doing anything and don't even run candidates, and therefore we have to be the ones that keep the party that has a monopoly on power in the county - the Republicans - honest off the backs of our candidate for Governor receiving more votes than the Democrat did.

There are very clearly wedge issues going on in this country right now that a Libertarian sharply contrasting case can be made. Mask and vaccine mandates, Afghanistan, executive orders that never end, the overpowering of the executive branches compared to Congress and legislative bodies becoming more and more meaningless, Medicare and Social Security will run out of money, the centralization of power into a greater number of unelected bureaucrats. No one outside of party insiders has any clue about the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire or the national party secretary. Mises Caucus wants to have a real impact on me, help me get more party members inside my county preparing for the runup to 2022. I have myself and 2 other people running for county office next year. I doubt the other 2 candidates know what a Mises Caucus is.

I'd have interest in voting for a Mises Caucus person if I were a delegate. But it would be based on stated plans for growth, interaction with the public and media, recruiting of new party members and candidates, putting Libertarian policy out to the public. You know, sh**t that actually matters.

As far as Harlos goes, she's always been provocative and do and rowdy. It's who she is, and people have known that for a long time.

This is the Donald Trump argument. "You knew I was an asshole. Therefore, I can say and do anything because I'm living up to my character."

[StateBoiler]

Another item for example Libertarians can tackle. The whole vaping industry nationwide just got shut down. FDA 4 days ago delayed a decision on Juul but ordered all other e-cigarettes off the market. The FDA were given the power to regulate vaping by the Obama administration, had a deadline on September 10th to approve or disapprove of them, and had made progress on only 1 company - Juul. So due to their inaction as a regulator, this whole industry of everything that was previously legal is instantly made illegal. And then if they approve Juul but nothing else for at least a medium period of time, the FDA literally created a state-regulated monopoly for a corporation.

That's significantly more impactful to citizens' individual liberty than Joe Bishop-Henchman and Caryn Ann Harlos.

[Agonized-Statism]

Libertarians, do you feel like the early 2010s were your peak as a party and an ideology? With deregulated capitalism under scrutiny for rising wealth inequality and people feeling the need to either reinforce existing hierarchies or pursue social reform with the state, do you think Libertarians can build back their appeal in the 2020s? Do you think you have an opening to take over a post-Trump Republican Party, or is that something you have no interest in personally?

Also, what's your take on the lockdown? Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers claim to be a movement for liberty, but I would think that capital 'L' Libertarians would be outside the conspiracy theory bubbles that fuel that stuff and would understand that a pandemic response is one of those things that requires community action- knowingly infecting someone is a violation of the NAP, right?

[StateBoiler]

Libertarians, do you feel like the early 2010s were your peak as a party and an ideology? With deregulated capitalism under scrutiny for rising wealth inequality and people feeling the need to either reinforce existing hierarchies or pursue social reform with the state, do you think Libertarians can build back their appeal in the 2020s? Do you think you have an opening to take over a post-Trump Republican Party, or is that something you have no interest in personally?

The notion there's been deregulation is a myth. Post-2006 almost all capitalism has been government-sponsored via government subsidies of the capital markets (include the European and Japanese markets and this was worldwide circa 2010), super-cheap debt to stave off recession/depression or requiring companies to do as government wants in exchange for blank. This naturally results in corporatism, because you and me can't access the powerful for our economic concerns, neither can most businesses. It's only the businesses that can afford the big lobbyists that can get a seat at the table in Washington. In other words, the government is picking winners. Just as the FDA are doing now with Juul in the vaping market for example, making every other e-cigarette company illegal overnight. Cheap debt and the inflation that's kickstarted this past year is another example. Businesses and banks benefit because they're the people that can more readily access to cheap debt first before all consumers and small businesses.

When government interest rates cease being zero or near-zero, we can have that discussion. It's not been that way since George W. Bush was president.

We're far away from a post-Trump Republican Party. I think the next person that takes control of the Republican Party to make it in his or her own image is going to be a person that is not anti-Trump, but is also able to stave off the most Trumpiest aspects to form their own identity as a president and leader of the party. In other words, how every political party change in policy has ever gone. Trump finally killed off Reagan's influence on the Republican Party. The Democrats are still influenced by Obama although Bernie Sanders clearly would rather them not, and you see clearly the Obama trap for the Democrats that Republicans had in the Reagan trap.

Republicans right now have joined the Democrats in believing in big government because they want the government to be powerful enough to implement items they want when they are in charge. Both the Republican and Democratic parties heavily worship the God of Power, so once in charge they want to have the central government use that power to reward the people that back them and subjugate to their will the people that oppose them. So the government is a means unto itself (as in "the ends justify the means"). That's a very anti-libertarian point of view in a political philosophy sense.

[Agonized-Statism]

We're far away from a post-Trump Republican Party. I think the next person that takes control of the Republican Party to make it in his or her own image is going to be a person that is not anti-Trump, but is also able to stave off the most Trumpiest aspects to form their own identity as a president and leader of the party. In other words, how every political party change in policy has ever gone. Trump finally killed off Reagan's influence on the Republican Party. The Democrats are still influenced by Obama although Bernie Sanders clearly would rather them not, and you see clearly the Obama trap for the Democrats that Republicans had in the Reagan trap.

Thank you for answering, it's great to understand your perspective! Your answer here really resonates with me- this where I am with socialists who think the Democrats can be changed. Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez have the right ideas, and I support them for it and for their efforts to raise awareness from their positions, but their electoral strategy will only disappoint. Not only do the parties gravitate toward personalities over ideas, but the two-party system itself is designed to limit debate. But, preaching to the choir here.

[StateBoiler]

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/politics/2021/10/05/larry-sharpe-launches-exploratory-committee-for-potential-ny-governor-run?force_isolation=true

Larry Sharpe for Governor of New York 2022.

He gained ballot access for the party back in 2018. Due to the change in New York election law, he will have to petition his way onto the ballot.

[StateBoiler]

Ricky Dale Harrington Jr. (the Libertarian that ran against Sen. Tom Cotton in Arkansas last year where no Democrat was present) was made the President of the Libertarian Policy Institute.

[PSOL]

Libertarians nominate an academic for Maryland governor

[StateBoiler]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QFhfRFNY4DQ

Join Cara Schulz, Laryssa Gaughen, and a ton of 2021 Libertarian Party candidates for a live rundown of election night results from across the country!

Coverage starts at 7pm eastern Tuesday.

[PSOL]

The LNC expels Caryn Ann Harlos.

This means war

[StateBoiler]

The National Party is having a 50th Anniversary celebration of its founding on December 11, 2021.

The LNC expels Caryn Ann Harlos.

This means war

Wasn't aware that happened. Although it's a misleading title, more "her appeal from being suspended as National Secretary failed".

I do agree with the Jared in the chat, which I assume is Jared Hall, alternate LNC member from Indiana. You're on the Judiciary Committee, by nature your position doesn't do anything over than these kinds of items, why abstain?

From the Moulton/Supreme/Turney opinion:

3.2 Bylaws are Supreme
Essentially the appellant argued that the bylaws are subservient to RONR. This is incorrect; instead, the reverse is true. LP Bylaw 16 provides “The rules contained in the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised shall govern the Party in all cases to which they are applicable and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws and any special rules of order adopted by the Party.” RONR is only applicable filling in the gaps or addressing an ambiguity when the bylaws are not clear – nor can RONR be used to manufacture an ambiguity when none exists from the plain language.

It's funny because Harlos has a show on Youtube she does titled "Cult of RONR".

This whole process with Bishop-Henchmann and Harlos has driven the Chair of my State Party to recognize we need specified judiciary procedures in our bylaws that he'll have our state convention vote on next year, so that's good.

Vermin Supreme was elected to the Judiciary Committee at the 2020 Convention. He voted in favor of Harlos' removal as Secretary. Here's his opinion:

OPINION OF VERMIN SUPREME

“Sure, Vermin, run for a spot on the judicial committee”, they said.

“It will give the appearance that you’re engaged with the party”, they said.

“It will burnish your reputation as a serious person”, they said.

“It will be good for your resume”, they said.

“Don’t worry, it is a do nothing position” , they said.

“The JC almost never even meets”, they said.

“It’s an honor”, they said.

I said, “Sure, I could be a judge, I mean if Jim Grey can do it, why not me?”

“Being a judge is cool, I guess”, I said.

“Ummm. Ok, fine, make me a judge then”, I said.

Then the people spoke.

And the rest, as they said, was history.

And this is that history.

Let me say this particular case was indeed, extremely notable for its total lack of ponies.

It was, however, chock full of bylaws.

Normally that would be enough to lose my attention, right there.

This case was also chock full of drama.

Normally that would be enough to send me tiptoeing out of the room.

However as a duly elected judge, it was my duty to stay in that dramatic room and pay very close
attention.

Close attention, I did pay, to a vast array of ‘evidence’ and opinions, testimony and deliberations.

This case was not about drama.

It was about bylaws.

Bylaws > drama.

Case closed.

Bangs gavel.

(Cue dramatic closing music.)

Thank you,

Judge Vermin

[PSOL]

Nicholas Sarwark is trying to get himself arrested

[Saint Milei]

The LP is pretty garbage outside the Mises Caucus and the MC is pretty useless. All effective libertarians don't vote, are independents, or working inside the GOP

[PSOL]

The LP is pretty garbage outside the Mises Caucus and the MC is pretty useless. All effective libertarians don't vote, are independents, or working inside the GOP

Yeah ok, do you have anything of substance to add here?