I'm not very optimistic about unity now

[beaver2.0]

It's worth noting the PR Shadow Congressional delegation is split 50-50 Democratic and Republican (with one independent in the house) just to be as inoffensive as possible.

The Republicans are far from locked out there.  The Resident Commissioner, who is aligned with the Republicans, won reelection this year.  This trend could continue even as a state.

[Coastal Elitist]

Where to even start with this nonsense. First Democrats are still in denial about 2016 claiming that Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump and they also obstructed Trump from day one.

I don't recall many serious politicians claiming Russia actually changed votes.  If I am wrong please correct me.  Let us not forget the Mueller probe was initiated by Republicans and Trump appointees and Mueller himself has said Trump was note exonerated.

Nothing about Biden's campaign was unifying in any way.

Aside from taking policy positions that you oppose, what particular things did he do to offend you?

I can name many things his opponent did that are beyond the pale including childish insults, tweeting out a video saying white power, and the "only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" debacle.  Those don't strike me as particularly unifying statements.
 

Democrats don't believe in democracy or the rule of law.

When it suits them they do not.  Both parties do this.

They want to ad states

DC?  This is hardly some newfangled idea.  It has been supported by Republicans in the past.  https://statehood.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/statehood/page_content/attachments/Historical-Overview-of-Party-Platforms-and-Statehood.pdf

Puerto Rico? Statehood is in the Republican platform.

and pack the supreme court because they can't win elections that have been played by the same rules for hundreds of years.

Not since 1860 has a nominee in an election year been rejected and in that case the Senate voted to not proceed. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN11514.pdf

Democrats have also weaponized the courts for years by appointing activist judges who ignore the constitution.

Which particular judges are you referring to?

Democrats aren't willing to compromise on important issues they blocked passing stimulus in the senate.

How are they blocking this when they are the minority?

Regarding the virus it's not ironic but it's dumb to compare something like 9/11 which was a one day event to an illness that's killed less than 1% of the population and for most people has a 99% survival rate.

Yes, but that is still a large number of people.

Also Democrats have politicized the virus from day one suggesting that halting travel with China would be xenophobic and then focusing on states like Florida and Texas and ignoring how bad New York, New Jersey and California were doing.

This was a mistake by the Democrats and they should have been more supportive on this and backed Trump against China more.

Multiple polls showed that large numbers of Democrats thought Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump. Clinton still claims that the election was stolen from her. Also the Muller report found:
The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

Biden called a juvenille who shot a man who was attacking him a white supremacist and made other statements that condemned Trump supporters as white supremacists while ignoring the violent BLM riots that happened this summer.

Puerto Rico might be acceptable but DC certainly isn't. It's in the constitution that it is supposed to be a federal district. Party platforms are pretty meaningless nobody reads them.

Maybe the judges in PA that made up the law regarding mail in ballots also the Roe v Wade decision was obviously liberal activism

Needed 60 votes: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/21/senate-democrats-republicans-covid-stimulus-430838

If the party with the presidency also has the senate they get to appoint the judges they want that is how it works.

To sum it up yes both parties obstruct and all that, but the idea that democrats are victims in some way is just ridiculous.

[R.P. McM]

I'm divided on the issue, to be honest. One side, I have faith in Joe Biden and think Trump will sooner or later disappear from the stage while his hardcore base of rural whites gets smaller, on the other hand, viewing this from the outside it's concerning. Sometimes I actually think it may be best for the US to separate peacefully. A house divided against itsself cannot stand. However, that would be bad for the whole world and actually not help the American people as a whole.

My American Uncle, who lived in Germany for well over two decades now, actually has similar opinion than the OP and thinks the country is "beyond repair".

At this point, I favor separation. Trying to harmoniously coexist with fascists is a dangerous and mostly futile endeavor. Yes, the surviving democratic bloc would enjoy less international influence than the unified U.S. However, have you considered the possibility of the authoritarian minority gaining repressive control of the currently constituted state? The threat posed to the rest of the world would be significantly greater with antidemocratic elements commanding 100% of the U.S. economy, rather than the ~30% rump they'd retain in a divorce scenario. Moreover, the surviving democratic bloc could realize substantial gains in its standard of living. Freed of the burden of bankrolling stagnant rural areas and enduring their gratitude in the form of political sabotage, we'd be capable of seizing low-hanging fruit such as universal healthcare.

[beaver2.0]

Where to even start with this nonsense. First Democrats are still in denial about 2016 claiming that Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump and they also obstructed Trump from day one.

I don't recall many serious politicians claiming Russia actually changed votes.  If I am wrong please correct me.  Let us not forget the Mueller probe was initiated by Republicans and Trump appointees and Mueller himself has said Trump was note exonerated.

Nothing about Biden's campaign was unifying in any way.

Aside from taking policy positions that you oppose, what particular things did he do to offend you?

I can name many things his opponent did that are beyond the pale including childish insults, tweeting out a video saying white power, and the "only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" debacle.  Those don't strike me as particularly unifying statements.
 

Democrats don't believe in democracy or the rule of law.

When it suits them they do not.  Both parties do this.

They want to ad states

DC?  This is hardly some newfangled idea.  It has been supported by Republicans in the past.  https://statehood.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/statehood/page_content/attachments/Historical-Overview-of-Party-Platforms-and-Statehood.pdf

Puerto Rico? Statehood is in the Republican platform.

and pack the supreme court because they can't win elections that have been played by the same rules for hundreds of years.

Not since 1860 has a nominee in an election year been rejected and in that case the Senate voted to not proceed. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN11514.pdf

Democrats have also weaponized the courts for years by appointing activist judges who ignore the constitution.

Which particular judges are you referring to?

Democrats aren't willing to compromise on important issues they blocked passing stimulus in the senate.

How are they blocking this when they are the minority?

Regarding the virus it's not ironic but it's dumb to compare something like 9/11 which was a one day event to an illness that's killed less than 1% of the population and for most people has a 99% survival rate.

Yes, but that is still a large number of people.

Also Democrats have politicized the virus from day one suggesting that halting travel with China would be xenophobic and then focusing on states like Florida and Texas and ignoring how bad New York, New Jersey and California were doing.

This was a mistake by the Democrats and they should have been more supportive on this and backed Trump against China more.

Multiple polls showed that large numbers of Democrats thought Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump. Clinton still claims that the election was stolen from her. Also the Muller report found:
The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

Biden called a juvenille who shot a man who was attacking him a white supremacist and made other statements that condemned Trump supporters as white supremacists while ignoring the violent BLM riots that happened this summer.

Puerto Rico might be acceptable but DC certainly isn't. It's in the constitution that it is supposed to be a federal district. Party platforms are pretty meaningless nobody reads them.

Maybe the judges in PA that made up the law regarding mail in ballots also the Roe v Wade decision was obviously liberal activism

Needed 60 votes: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/21/senate-democrats-republicans-covid-stimulus-430838

If the party with the presidency also has the senate they get to appoint the judges they want that is how it works.

To sum it up yes both parties obstruct and all that, but the idea that democrats are victims in some way is just ridiculous.

This is also an excerpt from that article.  As far as obstruction, the Mueller report laid out facts on both sides but did not reach a conclusion. Barr’s letter said that “the Special Counsel states that ‘while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.’”  Personally I am of the feeling that Democratic voters went overboard with blaming Trump on Russia.  If we're going by what random voters have said in a poll, 50% of the US believes top Democrats are involved in a sex ring.

Alright, I will concede that Biden has made some errors on the events surrounding the BLM protests especially in the Rittenhouse case which was all around a mess.  Biden has made a number of missteps but I still believe him better than Trump on this however I suppose I can see how you'd have a different view from the other side of the aisle.

The size of DC is never specified in the Constitution.  The Constitution is a good document but it was written by men of the 18th century.  I would argue their concerns over giving the capital self-government was justified at the time but nowadays we have the example of other federal states that have capital cities with self-government.  If the choice is between giving the residents of DC representation and sticking to the Constitution when we have examples of something else working, I will give them representations.  And sure, some Democrats have picked up on this for political gain but that does not mean that is the only reason to back it.

If platforms are totally meaningless why were there fights between Sanders and Biden this year and Cruz and Trump last time?  I'll agree and say platforms are not everything but they're hardly meaningless.  Clearly platform committee members care about making Puerto Rico a state.

OK but if what you're saying is that might makes right (as I interpret this: "If the party with the presidency also has the senate they get to appoint the judges they want that is how it works.") why would it be wrong for a Democrat to expand the court?

[7,052,770]

Puerto Rico might be acceptable but DC certainly isn't. It's in the constitution that it is supposed to be a federal district.

This is a willfully ignorant comment. It is impossible that you don't know the DC statehood proposal keeps the federal buildings in the constitutionally-mandated capital district and makes a state out of the parts of DC where people live.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yeah DC is only being denied statehood because of who lives there and how they vote. No one cares about the Constitution.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

There was never any reason to hope for unity. Del Tachi's vile dribble underscores the point quite nicely. It's a grievance party of bad faith actors who seek to warp, abuse, and misinterpret recent history to give a fig-leaf of legitimacy to their grievances to help their blatant power grabs. If you ever thought there was a depth to their depravity, then you missed the last four years and the last ten months in particular. This has been happening for over a decade; you are the frog who was unwittingly boiled alive.

The GOP is encouraged by a government that operated essentially under gentlemen's agreements for centuries and an electoral system that is (currently) demographically structurally biased towards them in every way. The problem will not solve itself. It will take years of dedicated and tireless activism and incredible political mobilization.

[Hermit For Peace]

What I'm seeing is Democrat's are this, and Republican's are that, and we'll never get anything done.....

But I say don't quit til we win. We can get human again and come together, make compromises and make decisions that are based in what is best for everyone.

We don't have politicians for the most part who are respect-worthy. When the people get fed up enough we will kick out the losers and elect in politicians who really care about serving the country.

We have allowed our politics to become just another Trump reality show. And we are the ones who are going to have to change that. Politicians won't change unless we force them to.

[Red Velvet]

We are looking at the end of effective democracy.  The current system gives the opposition party no incentive to work with the President and Republicans are and will continue to exploit this.  I really don’t see a way out.  It’s just going to get worse and worse.

There is a way: End bipartisan system/abolish electoral college. More competitive parties will have to compromise in order to get support from minor ones. A majority isn’t a given, making parties actually have to dialogue between themselves.

[Kingpoleon]

Oh come on you know what I mean. You guys want to add DC and Puerto Rico for partisan purposes to increase the number of senators you get. Puerto Rico is a bit of a wild card but we all know how DC will vote and there's no justification for making DC a state

So? Republicans pushed in two Dakotas to give themselves extra Senators. It’s not about DC has to become a state - all people in a country are entitled to democratic representation, regardless of where they live.

[GlobeSoc]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

F#ck no. We don't need no foreigners telling us what they think should occur, talking about separating my country, f#ck off

[Horus]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

And what of Dem states such as mine surrounded by GOP territory? That's a terrible idea.

[GlobeSoc]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

F#ck no. We don't need no foreigners telling us what they think should occur, talking about separating my country, f#ck off

Illinois is a foreign country?

[GlobeSoc]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

And what of Dem states such as mine surrounded by GOP territory? That's a terrible idea.

Do you have a better idea?

[Horus]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

And what of Dem states such as mine surrounded by GOP territory? That's a terrible idea.

Do you have a better idea?

Yes. Keep the union together.

And besides, I highly doubt Canada wants to get caught up in our drama.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

F#ck no. We don't need no foreigners telling us what they think should occur, talking about separating my country, f#ck off

Illinois is a foreign country?

Oh sorry, people with different avatars than where they really live confuses me.

[R.P. McM]

What I'm seeing is Democrat's are this, and Republican's are that, and we'll never get anything done.....

But I say don't quit til we win. We can get human again and come together, make compromises and make decisions that are based in what is best for everyone.

We don't have politicians for the most part who are respect-worthy. When the people get fed up enough we will kick out the losers and elect in politicians who really care about serving the country.

We have allowed our politics to become just another Trump reality show. And we are the ones who are going to have to change that. Politicians won't change unless we force them to.

This comment reminds me of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail where Sir Lancelot charges into a castle and massacres a wedding party. Later, when Lancelot reemerges alongside the King (father of the groom), the surviving guests are justifiably horrified. They rush at him, and he impales a few more of them, conceding, "I just get carried away." In an effort to pacify the crowd, the King implores his guests, "let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05eFDQnSfE)

Yeah, we kinda need to address who killed whom, and it's ludicrous to elide the distinction between lacerated wedding guests and the sword-wielding homicidal maniac in their midst. Similarly, the "we" in your comment appeals to a cross-partisan political consensus that's effectively dead. Do Republicans want to cancel the "Trump reality show"? No, they want to void the will of the public and extend it indefinitely. Do they share your notion of the common good, and your willingness to compromise in order to realize it? Not even remotely. The version of politics you envision is exactly what celebrated Republican leaders like Newt Gingrich, Mitch McConnell, and Donald Trump have sought to destroy. And they've largely succeeded, thanks to the unflinching support of their party and its voters.

[Badger]

Where to even start with this nonsense. First Democrats are still in denial about 2016 claiming that Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump and they also obstructed Trump from day one.

I don't recall many serious politicians claiming Russia actually changed votes.  If I am wrong please correct me.  Let us not forget the Mueller probe was initiated by Republicans and Trump appointees and Mueller himself has said Trump was note exonerated.

Nothing about Biden's campaign was unifying in any way.

Aside from taking policy positions that you oppose, what particular things did he do to offend you?

I can name many things his opponent did that are beyond the pale including childish insults, tweeting out a video saying white power, and the "only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" debacle.  Those don't strike me as particularly unifying statements.
 

Democrats don't believe in democracy or the rule of law.

When it suits them they do not.  Both parties do this.

They want to ad states

DC?  This is hardly some newfangled idea.  It has been supported by Republicans in the past.  https://statehood.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/statehood/page_content/attachments/Historical-Overview-of-Party-Platforms-and-Statehood.pdf

Puerto Rico? Statehood is in the Republican platform.

and pack the supreme court because they can't win elections that have been played by the same rules for hundreds of years.

Not since 1860 has a nominee in an election year been rejected and in that case the Senate voted to not proceed. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN11514.pdf

Democrats have also weaponized the courts for years by appointing activist judges who ignore the constitution.

Which particular judges are you referring to?

Democrats aren't willing to compromise on important issues they blocked passing stimulus in the senate.

How are they blocking this when they are the minority?

Regarding the virus it's not ironic but it's dumb to compare something like 9/11 which was a one day event to an illness that's killed less than 1% of the population and for most people has a 99% survival rate.

Yes, but that is still a large number of people.

Also Democrats have politicized the virus from day one suggesting that halting travel with China would be xenophobic and then focusing on states like Florida and Texas and ignoring how bad New York, New Jersey and California were doing.

This was a mistake by the Democrats and they should have been more supportive on this and backed Trump against China more.

Multiple polls showed that large numbers of Democrats thought Russia changed votes and stole the election for Trump. Clinton still claims that the election was stolen from her. Also the Muller report found:
The special counsel found that Russia did interfere with the election, but “did not find that the Trump campaign, or anyone associated with it, conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in these efforts, despite multiple efforts from Russian-affiliated individuals to assist the Trump campaign.”
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

Biden called a juvenille who shot a man who was attacking him a white supremacist and made other statements that condemned Trump supporters as white supremacists while ignoring the violent BLM riots that happened this summer.

Puerto Rico might be acceptable but DC certainly isn't. It's in the constitution that it is supposed to be a federal district. Party platforms are pretty meaningless nobody reads them.

Maybe the judges in PA that made up the law regarding mail in ballots also the Roe v Wade decision was obviously liberal activism

Needed 60 votes: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/21/senate-democrats-republicans-covid-stimulus-430838

If the party with the presidency also has the senate they get to appoint the judges they want that is how it works.

To sum it up yes both parties obstruct and all that, but the idea that democrats are victims in some way is just ridiculous.

Pssst! Google the number of individuals indicted and convicted out of the Mueller investigation, including Trump stop a DHS. Learn to! Google the number of individuals indicted and convicted out of the Mueller investigation, including Trump top aides and campaign advisers.

It takes extra work to be a know nothing. Why don't you try to learn things instead?

[R.P. McM]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

And what of Dem states such as mine surrounded by GOP territory? That's a terrible idea.

Partition will only become a realistic prospect in the face of an authoritarian coup. Which sounds ludicrous, except for the fact that a sizable subset of the GOP has just signaled its willingness to support one. Should a subsequent attempt prove more successful, the choices confronting us would range from bad to worse. A peaceful partition involving land/population swaps would, unfortunately, be one of the less disastrous outcomes.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I stated earlier, Unemployment isn't UBI based and Amazon is hiring right now, it's realization time that the Unemployment musr get back on their feet and take these Amazon jobs for the Holidays

Of course we all want desk jobs, but unless you work for Federal or state jobs, due to Covid, they aren't hiring right now.

They probably extend unemployment one more time and that's it. Getting 600 is too much for Unemployment, and many people were bragging that they were getting over with their 600 checks.

300 for a 3 month extension and 600 for Stimulus is the best deal, Pelosi has a shrunken Majority. If it doesn't pass and D's lose 1 seat in GA, it's time to move on

A bloated 2.2T Stimulus deal is over

[Middle-aged Europe]

There was never really any reason to be optimistic about unity.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

D's changing their tune about a lower amount just because Biden is Prez made Rs mad and D's should of compromised from the beginning, but let's see how GA goes, there is a small hope

[GlobeSoc]

Unironically I think that the us should be partitioned on state lines with the liberal section entering an economic union with or joining canada. Population swaps may be an unsavory but necessary part of this. Ideally the liberal-left section would then stay a great power, just with a different center of gravity.

And what of Dem states such as mine surrounded by GOP territory? That's a terrible idea.

Do you have a better idea?

Yes. Keep the union together.

And besides, I highly doubt Canada wants to get caught up in our drama.

How would Democrats go about keeping the union together then?

[Torie]

Be patient.