How can Dems win rural voters?
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  How can Dems win rural voters?
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MillennialModerate
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« on: December 05, 2020, 03:19:15 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2020, 03:21:28 PM »

I think it has to do with explaining their policies. This election, their message was for the most part, anti-Trump, and I think in hindsight they could've done a better job of explaining to voters, particularly those in these rural communities, why the Democratic platform would benefit them.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2020, 03:23:05 PM »

I think it has to do with explaining their policies. This election, their message was for the most part, anti-Trump, and I think in hindsight they could've done a better job of explaining to voters, particularly those in these rural communities, why the Democratic platform would benefit them.
Voters don’t vote on policy. Period.
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Illini Moderate
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2020, 03:27:16 PM »

stop speaking like politicians
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2020, 03:27:53 PM »

I think it has to do with explaining their policies. This election, their message was for the most part, anti-Trump, and I think in hindsight they could've done a better job of explaining to voters, particularly those in these rural communities, why the Democratic platform would benefit them.
Voters don’t vote on policy. Period.

I think with better messaging Democrats could manage to do about 5% better in rural areas, which would go a long way
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WIResident
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2020, 03:59:52 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2020, 04:41:43 PM »

As for the answer?
Well it’s not easy, but we need to complete the steps of the GOP but in a modern context.
Think about it, GOP talk radio and FOX News are what powered the rise of the red, not some national yearning for trickle down and some sudden hatred of Roosevelt and the likes.

These rural communities are basically just bubbles, where any information spread will concentrate in that community. This makes a lot of small towns ripe spots for a Progressive takeover through manipulation.

The GOP has been actively endorsing and engaging North Korea/communist style brainwashing of millions of Americans since the 90s. This is how they have remained in powe despite theoretically benign the least viable entity in existence.
Nobody likes their policies, nobody likes Mitch, it’s all brainwashing

The truth is, an entire generation is lost, unbrainwashing the American people would require a massive program similar to how Germans were in brainwashed in the post WW2 era, and we can’t do anything like that until we have a strong mandate, that’s puts us in a bit of chicken/egg dilemma.

However, the good news is that the FOX monopoly will not last. As a matter of fact, most traditional news networks are screwed because the generational preferences for finding validation for dumb opinions has increasingly turned towards social media, which has a somewhat different dynamic than TV or talk radio.

However, the idea is the same, we need magnetic personalities to work for the Democrats as liberal influencers for the younger generation. They should be prominent on Instagram/YouTube/TikTok and we must have several of them so people have the illusion of a variety of choices.

Instead of pumping money into getting some elderly Demosaur in Kentucky to vote for McGrath, we should spend almost all our resources into creating Sean Hannities, Tucker Carlsons, and yes...Donald Trumps.
There has got to be some strong psychological reasons they gain traction and have such loyal bases, and I believe their success must be replicated by Democrats.

Most importantly, we must expand broadband and internet services to rural places with lower info specifically so we can target these areas and exploit their new voters. The stronger of a monopoly we can have on these areas, the better the effect.

It’s not about policy, it’s stupidity and playing to the crowd.
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MargieCat
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2020, 05:19:24 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
Unfortunately, running DINOs doesn't seem to work in rural areas. Just look at Collin Peterson vs Michelle Fischbach.
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DabbingSanta
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2020, 05:23:44 PM »

They can't.  Democrats have seen some brief improvements in the past, but they always end up being temporary, and given the trajectory with their ideology and urban base I really can't see why many white rural voters would have any reason to switch parties barring something exceptional.

In 1964, Johnson performed well nationwide, including in rural areas, outside the Deep South.  Goldwater was a terrible candidate and his libertarian views probably scared a lot of farmers who depended on agricultural subsidies from the New Deal.

1976 was the last election which many rural counties in the South voted Democrat. Carter was a fellow southerner who came from a very small town and managed a peanut farming business.

In 1988, Dukakis performed well in rural parts of the northern Plains and Upper Midwest.  This was largely due to the Farm Crisis, and it was not near enough to make him competitive nationally.

In 2008, Obama performed well in rural parts of the Upper Midwest, especially Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin.  These areas were more competitive in 2012 and turned hard right for Trump in 2016.
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WIResident
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2020, 05:47:06 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
Unfortunately, running DINOs doesn't seem to work in rural areas. Just look at Collin Peterson vs Michelle Fischbach.

That district was the most Republican district held by a Dem for a while, it was always going to be tough to hold on there. It's honestly a bonus that Collin Peterson was able to hold on in 2010 and 2014 and says that he was able to appeal to rural voters.
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MargieCat
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2020, 05:49:22 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
Unfortunately, running DINOs doesn't seem to work in rural areas. Just look at Collin Peterson vs Michelle Fischbach.

That district was the most Republican district held by a Dem for a while, it was always going to be tough to hold on there. It's honestly a bonus that Collin Peterson was able to hold on in 2010 and 2014 and says that he was able to appeal to rural voters.
He was essentially "grandfathered in," for a long time. You could say the same thing about Manchin and perhaps Tester.

Eventually the "grandfathering" wears out and polarization wins out.

But it would be impossible for a democrat to flip an open seat in a rural and polarized area like that.
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 06:02:46 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
Unfortunately, running DINOs doesn't seem to work in rural areas. Just look at Collin Peterson vs Michelle Fischbach.

Peterson's luck ran out.....
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ProgressiveModerate
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2020, 06:26:43 PM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.
Unfortunately, running DINOs doesn't seem to work in rural areas. Just look at Collin Peterson vs Michelle Fischbach.

Peterson's luck ran out.....

That's true, but his overperformance was still pretty sizeable. MN-7 may no longer be winnable, but doing well in places like ME-2, MN-1, or NC-11 could go a long ways. I also think the polarization we saw this election was very unique because of how strong people's feelings were towards Trump; you either thought he was some god-like hero that would save America or someone who would completely tear apart the fabric of our democracy. In don't know if in 2024, for instance, feelings towards Biden, both positive and negative, will be as strong, leaving a bit more room for split ticket voting.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2020, 07:09:52 PM »

They can't because everything about the contemporary Democratic Party seeths with disdain and contempt for rural people.  You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives (like Bill Maher and Chelsea Handler have been doing for decades) and not expect it to affect Democrats' electoral chances in the Heartland.  The change that happened during the Obama years was two-fold:  the "Jon Stewart" generation of Democratic staffers and activists (college kids of the 1990s/2000s, basically) came into professional politics, and Democratic leadership caved to their worst instincts in painting their Tea Party opposition as "rubeish" yokels.
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redjohn
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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2020, 09:04:24 PM »

You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives

Not taking aim at you because this is legitimately what conservatives believe, but it's the Republican Party that thrives off attacking liberals for their lifestyle. "San Francisco/New York values" is a catchphrase used by conservatives. I've never once heard a Democrat talk condescendingly about rural areas, yet I hear it from Republicans every time I talk to one regarding any "social issues".

Not only do conservatives have open disdain for urban areas; they openly target big (usually minority-plurality) cities. In Wisconsin, Milwaukee is a punching bag for the state GOP despite people in urban areas never uttering a single bad word about rural areas. It's quite ridiculous, and I completely disagree with this notion every time I see it propagated online. It is simply not true that Democrats have disdain or contempt for rural people; in fact, it's Republicans who have disdain for people who live in urban areas or practice a relationship/religion different from their own.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2020, 09:36:11 PM »

They can't because everything about the contemporary Democratic Party seeths with disdain and contempt for rural people.  You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives (like Bill Maher and Chelsea Handler have been doing for decades) and not expect it to affect Democrats' electoral chances in the Heartland.  The change that happened during the Obama years was two-fold:  the "Jon Stewart" generation of Democratic staffers and activists (college kids of the 1990s/2000s, basically) came into professional politics, and Democratic leadership caved to their worst instincts in painting their Tea Party opposition as "rubeish" yokels.

The Tea Party painted themselves as rubeish yokels when they showed up in droves to protest “fascist socialism” they knew nothing about thanks to a healthcare policy that disproportionately benefited them because it was the work of a black man who they hung in effigy.

“StOp cAlLing Us StUpiD aNd RaCiSt” they say. Well, maybe stop being stupid and racist? Just a thought.

And the swipe at Bill Maher is especially hilarious, as he’s one of the few liberal celebrities who frequently performs in deep red areas, and he mocks his own side for being “woke” more often these days than he bothers to mock rednecks. The obsession with celebrities and paranoid fear that these “elites” are looking down on you all the time is typical of Republicans, though.

In any case, living in a rural area is no excuse for being ignorant let alone, quite frankly, unapologetically stupid as is often the case. I say this as someone from a pretty red state with some pretty rural roots. There are plenty of informed, intelligent people in these places who don’t blame a shadowy cabal of “librul elites” for every misfortune in their lives, even if they are a minority these days.

I mean, what happened to self-responsibility? What happened to pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? Most of all, what happened to “facts don’t care about your feelings?” Your core argument is essentially “Liberals shouldn’t dare hurt our feelings and call us stupid, otherwise we just might prove them right!” Think about how... stupid that argument is.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2020, 09:39:14 PM »

They can't because everything about the contemporary Democratic Party seeths with disdain and contempt for rural people.  You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives (like Bill Maher and Chelsea Handler have been doing for decades) and not expect it to affect Democrats' electoral chances in the Heartland.  The change that happened during the Obama years was two-fold:  the "Jon Stewart" generation of Democratic staffers and activists (college kids of the 1990s/2000s, basically) came into professional politics, and Democratic leadership caved to their worst instincts in painting their Tea Party opposition as "rubeish" yokels.
Bull, the media is controlled by brainwashing communist GOPers who have destroyed the American people.
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R.P. McM
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« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2020, 09:48:33 PM »
« Edited: December 05, 2020, 10:04:03 PM by R.P. McM »

They can't because everything about the contemporary Democratic Party seeths with disdain and contempt for rural people.  You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives (like Bill Maher and Chelsea Handler have been doing for decades) and not expect it to affect Democrats' electoral chances in the Heartland.  The change that happened during the Obama years was two-fold:  the "Jon Stewart" generation of Democratic staffers and activists (college kids of the 1990s/2000s, basically) came into professional politics, and Democratic leadership caved to their worst instincts in painting their Tea Party opposition as "rubeish" yokels.

I didn't prior to 2016, but yeah, supporting a racist, authoritarian sexual predator who essentially committed treason is a thoroughly despicable act. So yeah, I now believe Trump's supporters are trash. I can't help it if a bunch of rural whites and evangelical Christians choose to identify themselves with said group. I mean, it's basically impossible to believe these folks are deeply concerned about "patriotism" and "moral values," yet still adamantly committed to reelecting Donald Trump. Obviously, they don't believe a word of what they've been saying for decades — they're just contemptible liars.

The Trump presidency has been immensely damaging to the notion that we should take Republican criticisms of Democratic administrations seriously. Unfortunately, I don't see any possibility of putting the toothpaste back in the tube.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2020, 02:41:43 AM »

Trump bought votes among farmers and ranchers with subsidies that more than offset the effect of his trade wars. Basically he opened the treasury in an effort to win the election, which is scummy politics. I prefer that politicians offer long-term, structural solutions instead of throwing money at the people who scream loudest.

Democrats can undo Trump's trade war to the benefit of farmers and ranchers while reducing subsidies, which will be good for the treasury and deficits, but it is not sure that Democrats will get the credit.

They can't because everything about the contemporary Democratic Party seethes with disdain and contempt for rural people.  You can't have a liberal media/ruling class that openly ridicules "small town" values and takes aim at rural conservatives (like Bill Maher and Chelsea Handler have been doing for decades) and not expect it to affect Democrats' electoral chances in the Heartland.  The change that happened during the Obama years was two-fold:  the "Jon Stewart" generation of Democratic staffers and activists (college kids of the 1990s/2000s, basically) came into professional politics, and Democratic leadership caved to their worst instincts in painting their Tea Party opposition as "rubeish" yokels.

I didn't prior to 2016, but yeah, supporting a racist, authoritarian sexual predator who essentially committed treason is a thoroughly despicable act. So yeah, I now believe Trump's supporters are trash. I can't help it if a bunch of rural whites and evangelical Christians choose to identify themselves with said group. I mean, it's basically impossible to believe these folks are deeply concerned about "patriotism" and "moral values," yet still adamantly committed to reelecting Donald Trump. Obviously, they don't believe a word of what they've been saying for decades — they're just contemptible liars.

The Trump presidency has been immensely damaging to the notion that we should take Republican criticisms of Democratic administrations seriously. Unfortunately, I don't see any possibility of putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

Another side: good people stay clear of evil-doers when they have a choice. Such is good for survival, prosperity, and avoiding trouble. Consider that the harshest condemnation of the Sicilian and Neapolitan Mafias comes from Italian-Americans who have legitimate means of making a living. Yes, there are Mob groupies, but those people are typically recognized as scum. Before he disgraced himself in his involvement with Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani made a reputation as a rackets-busting prosecutor Go to a German-American cultural association and bring Nazi paraphernalia, give a Nazis salute, or start singing the Horst-Wessel-Lied, and you will be given the boot.

Many of us German-Americans get confused with Jews because of similar surnames... but I would rather be seen as a Jew than a Nazi. If I had to choose between becoming a Nazi or converting to Judaism I would take the way that requires fewer moral or cultural compromises. Oh, if I went Reform I wouldn't have to give up pork, shellfish, and meat-and-cheese sandwiches?   

At this point, Trump supporters are better described as cultists than as direct malefactors. Know well that about five years ago Trump was telling people that those who criticized him were themselves evil people with malign intentions. He has not changed.

Anyone who fails to give him what he wants on his terms is a villain to him. He is a fantastically immature person, still infantile in his self-centered character.

OK, I said a few things about a religious heritage not mine. Really there is only two reasons for religion, one of which is to find great truth associated with something beyond us... or to improve us as persons. Great truth is not the repudiation of ostensibly-lesser truth that is still truth. If one's religion makes one more gullible then it is too flawed to merit faith. If it leads one to do horrible things, then that religion, or at least its interpretation, is unworthy. If your religious views tell you to assassinate an abortionist you have some bad religion. I can tell you about destructive cults that wrap themselves in religious garb and have murdered. Jeffrey Lundgren and Shoko Asahara have been executed in their respective countries for such crime.

Religion can make us judgmental, and we if it takes religion to turn us against crime or bad habits, then so be it. My quasi-religious judgment tells me that Donald Trump is completely untrustworthy as a liar, cheat, and fool. 

I do not knock the rustic and primitive. Both can be powerfully expressive. This said, the complex philosophy vital to full understanding of the world and to getting the most out of life without stepping too hard on even one person, let alone others, takes effort. Ignorance is not innocence.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2020, 03:04:54 AM »

If we’re being honest, Democrats’ biggest struggle in rural areas is that they have a “D” next to their name on the ballot.

Same problem with Republicans in urban areas- having that “R” next your name has more or less already destroyed your chance.
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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2020, 03:07:47 AM »

Remember these words of wisdom from a historical Democratic president:

Quote
I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the Fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

But when a Democratic candidate goes out and explains what the New Deal and Fair Deal really are--when he stands up like a man and puts the issues before the people--then Democrats can win, even in places where they have never won before. It has been proven time and again.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2020, 06:35:48 AM »

Rural voters are not one single demographic, and Democrats are already winning and at least competitive in many parts of rural America. Their problem is less one of outreach to rural voters and more one of outreach to specifically rural white voters in the Midwest and South. And there aren't a lot of ways to specifically pander to those groups that won't cost them elsewhere. As Obama showed, it can be done, but it really needs the correct national environment to be in place already and an incumbent Republican who overperforms in those areas running for re-election was never going to be that.
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2020, 07:16:41 AM »

They can't.
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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2020, 07:23:20 AM »

A lot of talk on if the GOP can improve with suburbanites but not a lot talk about Dems improving in rural areas. The fact is they’ve blown a golden chance with their suburban take over: They’re losing so many rural areas by a 80-20 clip at best. If they could even make that 65-35 you’d see landslides, trend bucking midterm wins and a Dem owning of the White House.

How do Dems become competitive in rural areas and what canidate is best able to do that

The best way for Democrats to compete in rural areas is to run as DINOs, people like Connor Lamb or Joe Manchin can still win over some rural voters but most national Democrats cannot. It's hard because most Democrats who run as DINOs tend to lose to incumbent Republicans in rural areas and therefore don't get anywhere.

Lamb is not a DINO. He is a pretty standard democrat
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cwh2018
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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2020, 07:37:03 AM »

I think the second amendment hurts democrats in rural areas may than the abortion issue.
But I think it is also simply cultural as well, so many rural areas have not voted for a democrat since 1996 and the rural vote becomes more of an r vote sink every election.
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