S.20.4.7 - Liberate Hong Kong Resolution [FINAL VOTE]

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

A CHAMBER RESOLUTION
supporting a recent executive order issued by the federal government

BE IT ENACTED BY THE SOUTHERN CHAMBER RESOLVED.

Section 1, TITLE AND DEFINITIONS.
1. The title of this Resolution shall be, the "Liberate Hong Kong Resolution."

Section 2, RESOLUTION TEXT.

WHEREAS, the people of Hong Kong have been brutally oppressed by the government of the People's Republic of China for the past two and a half decades;

WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;

WHEREAS, the President of the Atlasian Republic recently issued an executive order allowing citizens of Hong Kong to seek refuge within our country;

BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE CHAMBER OF DELEGATES:

1) Officially supports Executive Order 008 of the MB Administration.

2) Condemns the Chinese Communist Party.

3) Commends President MB.

4) Encourages complete and total independence of Hong Kong from the People's Republic of China.

Sponsor: KoopaDaQuick (Peace - Arkansas)

Minimum 48 hours for debate.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

The Chinese Communist Party and its actions within the special administrative region of Hong Kong are indefensible. President and Fmr. Governor MB took it upon himself to allow Hong Kongers, who would otherwise be subject to brutal oppression from the CCP, to seek asylum in Atlasia. Whether you're pro- or anti-MB, left-wing or right-wing, you have to concede that something needs to be done to protect the people of Hong Kong from the wrath of Beijing, and this is a good start.

[Harvey Updyke Jr🌹]

Having heard about a disgusting measure being introduced that seeks to overturn President MB's executive order in another legislature, I applaud the right honorable member for introducing this resolution in our Chamber.  Indeed, I believe that I speak the whole of my party when I say that we strongly support this president's effort to aid the people of Hong Kong in their struggle for human rights and democracy.  I also believe that socialism cannot succeed without an inherent umbrella of democracy.  Democratic socialism, not authoritarianism, is the only way to protect the workers and ensure a strong middle class.

I fully support this resolution.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Regional legislatures don't actually have any leeway to overturn presidential foreign-policy-related EOs except in courts, don't they?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

"WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;"
strikes me as somewhat problematic wording, here's at least 2 reasons why.
1. Falun Gong and its media outlets play fast and loose with the truth and do absolutely overstate elements of CCP human rights abuses towards their own practitioners for their own purposes.

2. Its premise can be misproved by one example alone: "China is doing a modern day Holocaust on Manchu minorities within the country."
I would prefer more precise wording here.
This isn't to say its overall thrust or ethos is massively wrong; I feel it could be put better, that's the gist of it.
There's a million possible ways to criticize Beijing - it's absolutely possible to overstate things, even if a majority of the time, your wording will land on what is essentially the truth.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

"WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;"
strikes me as somewhat problematic wording, here's at least 2 reasons why.
1. Falun Gong and its media outlets play fast and loose with the truth and do absolutely overstate elements of CCP human rights abuses towards their own practitioners for their own purposes.

[snip]

2. Its premise can be misproved by one example alone: "China is doing a modern day Holocaust on Manchu minorities within the country."
I would prefer more precise wording here.
This isn't to say its overall thrust or ethos is massively wrong; I feel it could be put better, that's the gist of it.
There's a million possible ways to criticize Beijing - it's absolutely possible to overstate things, even if a majority of the time, your wording will land on what is essentially the truth.

1a. Hey, I love McCullough! I've watched him since he had, like, 2K subs in 2016 or so.

1b. The Falun Gong is indeed a horrible organization, and unless we have any Epoch Times reporters watching this session of the Chamber, I doubt that there are any people here who would disagree. And while they are evil, they are still absolutely prosecuted by the CCP, and it's echoed when you notice that happen with a myriad of other groups, from the Uyghurs to the people of Hong Kong.

2. I don't know if "modern day Holocaust" is really hitting the nail on the head there, but it is true that the Chinese government is not afraid to commit genocide whenever it sees fit. Look at the Uyghurs. Look at the Guangxi Massacre. Look at the Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries. I don't see your point here.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

"WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;"
strikes me as somewhat problematic wording, here's at least 2 reasons why.
1. Falun Gong and its media outlets play fast and loose with the truth and do absolutely overstate elements of CCP human rights abuses towards their own practitioners for their own purposes.

[snip]

2. Its premise can be misproved by one example alone: "China is doing a modern day Holocaust on Manchu minorities within the country."
I would prefer more precise wording here.
This isn't to say its overall thrust or ethos is massively wrong; I feel it could be put better, that's the gist of it.
There's a million possible ways to criticize Beijing - it's absolutely possible to overstate things, even if a majority of the time, your wording will land on what is essentially the truth.

1a. Hey, I love McCullough! I've watched him since he had, like, 2K subs in 2016 or so.

1b. The Falun Gong is indeed a horrible organization, and unless we have any Epoch Times reporters watching this session of the Chamber, I doubt that there are any people here who would disagree. And while they are evil, they are still absolutely prosecuted by the CCP, and it's echoed when you notice that happen with a myriad of other groups, from the Uyghurs to the people of Hong Kong.

2. I don't know if "modern day Holocaust" is really hitting the nail on the head there, but it is true that the Chinese government is not afraid to commit genocide whenever it sees fit. Look at the Uyghurs. Look at the Guangxi Massacre. Look at the Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries. I don't see your point here.

If it follows that Falun Gong has a habit of overstating elements of CCP atrocities for their own selfish purposes, then that is by itself more than enough proof that the wording merits changing, especially given the sheer size of Falun Gong's megaphone. Wording on foreign-policy-related resolutions, if they have to be deliberated at all, ought to reflect reality, insofar as it is wise to speak up about it.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

"WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;"
strikes me as somewhat problematic wording, here's at least 2 reasons why.
1. Falun Gong and its media outlets play fast and loose with the truth and do absolutely overstate elements of CCP human rights abuses towards their own practitioners for their own purposes.

[snip]

2. Its premise can be misproved by one example alone: "China is doing a modern day Holocaust on Manchu minorities within the country."
I would prefer more precise wording here.
This isn't to say its overall thrust or ethos is massively wrong; I feel it could be put better, that's the gist of it.
There's a million possible ways to criticize Beijing - it's absolutely possible to overstate things, even if a majority of the time, your wording will land on what is essentially the truth.

1a. Hey, I love McCullough! I've watched him since he had, like, 2K subs in 2016 or so.

1b. The Falun Gong is indeed a horrible organization, and unless we have any Epoch Times reporters watching this session of the Chamber, I doubt that there are any people here who would disagree. And while they are evil, they are still absolutely prosecuted by the CCP, and it's echoed when you notice that happen with a myriad of other groups, from the Uyghurs to the people of Hong Kong.

2. I don't know if "modern day Holocaust" is really hitting the nail on the head there, but it is true that the Chinese government is not afraid to commit genocide whenever it sees fit. Look at the Uyghurs. Look at the Guangxi Massacre. Look at the Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries. I don't see your point here.

If it follows that Falun Gong has a habit of overstating elements of CCP atrocities for their own selfish purposes, then that is by itself more than enough proof that the wording merits changing, especially given the sheer size of Falun Gong's megaphone. Wording on foreign-policy-related resolutions, if they have to be deliberated at all, ought to reflect reality, insofar as it is wise to speak up about it.

The Falun Gong doesn't overstate anything, they just manipulate it into making people believe that it's specifically a Falun Gong issue and not just a problem with how terrible the CCP is.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

"WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;"
strikes me as somewhat problematic wording, here's at least 2 reasons why.
1. Falun Gong and its media outlets play fast and loose with the truth and do absolutely overstate elements of CCP human rights abuses towards their own practitioners for their own purposes.

[snip]

2. Its premise can be misproved by one example alone: "China is doing a modern day Holocaust on Manchu minorities within the country."
I would prefer more precise wording here.
This isn't to say its overall thrust or ethos is massively wrong; I feel it could be put better, that's the gist of it.
There's a million possible ways to criticize Beijing - it's absolutely possible to overstate things, even if a majority of the time, your wording will land on what is essentially the truth.

1a. Hey, I love McCullough! I've watched him since he had, like, 2K subs in 2016 or so.

1b. The Falun Gong is indeed a horrible organization, and unless we have any Epoch Times reporters watching this session of the Chamber, I doubt that there are any people here who would disagree. And while they are evil, they are still absolutely prosecuted by the CCP, and it's echoed when you notice that happen with a myriad of other groups, from the Uyghurs to the people of Hong Kong.

2. I don't know if "modern day Holocaust" is really hitting the nail on the head there, but it is true that the Chinese government is not afraid to commit genocide whenever it sees fit. Look at the Uyghurs. Look at the Guangxi Massacre. Look at the Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries. I don't see your point here.

If it follows that Falun Gong has a habit of overstating elements of CCP atrocities for their own selfish purposes, then that is by itself more than enough proof that the wording merits changing, especially given the sheer size of Falun Gong's megaphone. Wording on foreign-policy-related resolutions, if they have to be deliberated at all, ought to reflect reality, insofar as it is wise to speak up about it.

The Falun Gong doesn't overstate anything, they just manipulate it into making people believe that it's specifically a Falun Gong issue and not just a problem with how terrible the CCP is.

I'm pretty sure that pushing kooky theories about some specifics about how Falun Gong practationers are treated in China counts as overstating human rights abuses. It may be smaller in scope and not necessarily covering all facets of human rights in China, but it absolutely falls under the same umbrella, given the wide breath of the subject matter.

[fhtagn]

I see this session's theme is "look, we are pretending to do things!"

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

I see this session's theme is "look, we are pretending to do things!"

Then write a dang bill yourself, citizens can do that too. The pandemic has been mentally straining for a good chunk of delegates, and plenty of them have talked to me personally about it. Maybe if we didn't live in a COVID world, we'd have a more active delegation.

Me and TimTurner have been working our butts off to get things actually put on the floor, as we have to make up for the fact that lots of Atlasians and Southerners are putting their IRL careers, academics, and mental health first like they should. All I ask out of them is to vote on the bills, and so far I've gotten my wish.

Madam, unless you have any critiques that actually pertain to the subject of the resolution, I ask you to take this somewhere else.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

Motioning for a final vote, 24 hours to object.

[Harvey Updyke Jr🌹]

No objection.

[Senator-elect Spark]

I can commend any legislation that condemns the overreach of the Chinese Communist Party.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

Opening a final vote.

Aye

[Harvey Updyke Jr🌹]

Aye

[reagente]

Agree in principle, but this is prerogative of the Federal Government. As such, I will vote: ABSTAIN

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

Aye

[tmthforu94]

Nay - I agree in principle, but like Reagente said, I believe this should be a matter of the federal government.

[tmthforu94]

This needs to be closed.

[Rep Jessica]

A CHAMBER RESOLUTION
supporting a recent executive order issued by the federal government

BE IT ENACTED BY THE SOUTHERN CHAMBER RESOLVED.

Section 1, TITLE AND DEFINITIONS.
1. The title of this Resolution shall be, the "Liberate Hong Kong Resolution."

Section 2, RESOLUTION TEXT.

WHEREAS, the people of Hong Kong have been brutally oppressed by the government of the People's Republic of China for the past two and a half decades;

WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;

WHEREAS, the President of the Atlasian Republic recently issued an executive order allowing citizens of Hong Kong to seek refuge within our country;

BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE CHAMBER OF DELEGATES:

1) Officially supports Executive Order 008 of the MB Administration.

2) Condemns the Chinese Communist Party.

3) Commends President MB.

4) Encourages complete and total independence of Hong Kong from the People's Republic of China.

Sponsor: KoopaDaQuick (Peace - Arkansas)

Minimum 48 hours for debate.

I am fine with 2-8 but against 1. We do not need to be taking in these people as they belong in Hong Kong and free.

I could possibly consider a federal bill condemning china with 2-8.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

A CHAMBER RESOLUTION
supporting a recent executive order issued by the federal government

BE IT ENACTED BY THE SOUTHERN CHAMBER RESOLVED.

Section 1, TITLE AND DEFINITIONS.
1. The title of this Resolution shall be, the "Liberate Hong Kong Resolution."

Section 2, RESOLUTION TEXT.

WHEREAS, the people of Hong Kong have been brutally oppressed by the government of the People's Republic of China for the past two and a half decades;

WHEREAS, the human rights abuses committed by the Chinese government under CCP rule within her borders cannot be overstated;

WHEREAS, the President of the Atlasian Republic recently issued an executive order allowing citizens of Hong Kong to seek refuge within our country;

BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE CHAMBER OF DELEGATES:

1) Officially supports Executive Order 008 of the MB Administration.

2) Condemns the Chinese Communist Party.

3) Commends President MB.

4) Encourages complete and total independence of Hong Kong from the People's Republic of China.

Sponsor: KoopaDaQuick (Peace - Arkansas)

Minimum 48 hours for debate.

I am fine with 2-8 but against 1. We do not need to be taking in these people as they belong in Hong Kong and free.

I could possibly consider a federal bill condemning china with 2-8.

Well, we shouldn't force them to live under the rule of the CCP either. So long as we check them to make sure they don't pose a threat to Atlasian National Security, I say we welcome Hong Kongers in with open arms.

[tmthforu94]

Aye

How is immigration not an issue that the regional government should take up but foreign policy is?? Foreign policy is the definition of a federal issue.

[Harvey Updyke Jr🌹]

China does a lot of business in the Southern region.  Each state has to coordinate with China on many issues.

Immigration is literally managed from a federal department.

Also this is a resolution and not an Act.

[tmthforu94]

So immigration policy has no effect on the region then?

You're right on the resolution vs. act, though as I stated in the other thread, the immigration bill is written more as a resolution and carries no teeth.