Will we ever have a sex worker Barbie doll?

[SevenEleven]

Legalizing and regulating prostitution seems like a no brainer that remains outside the overton window just because a lot of people are prudes, including many people on the left.

Just to be 100% clear - and you may already know this - a lot of SWERFs support sex worker's rights and legalization. The biggest divide with the hardcore SJW feminists and the SWERFs isn't at all about the laws and policies, which some but not all tend to agree on. It's about celebrating sex work as an honourable career versus finding it either bad or not-so-great or at least not ideal from a moral perspective.

If we look at the absolute extremes on either end to highlight the differences: an absolute extremist SJW feminist would encourage their daughter to pursue a career in sex work if the daughter showed an interest or passion in it, whereas an absolute extremist SWERF would disown their daughter for becoming a sex worker.

I mean, is there any significant number of people who want a career in sex work and plan their lives for it? Making it illegal is pointless but I struggle to see how it's an admirable or enjoyable path in life. I've certainly never encountered anyone enthusiastic about people joining the profession.

With the ascension of social media and sites like onlyfans, sex workers can rake in $100s of $1ks of dollars fairly easily with a partner/spouse and maybe a video or image editor. If anything, it's easier and more lucrative to be a sex worker now than ever before, and is less and less stigmatized.

idk, lumping a streetwalker in with someone who dresses up as Jadzia from Deep Space Nine and sells lingerie pictures on OnlyFans (n.b. this is someone I've actually met) as "sex workers" as if they're in the same line of work with the same dangers and the same moral calculus seems reductive to the point of disingenuousness to me.

Considering streetwalkers to be sex workers is about as intellectually honest as calling drug dealers "entrepreneurs".

But streetwalkers is one of the first things that comes to most people's minds when they hear "sex workers" (certainly not even remotely comparable to how often people associate "entrepreneur" to drug dealers).

Yeah, I was first introduced to "sex worker" as tout court a euphemism for "prostitute", and long refused to use it for that reason because it didn't strike me as the sort of issue that benefited from being discussed euphemistically. It was only a few years ago that I learned that people used it more broadly.

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Legalizing and regulating prostitution seems like a no brainer that remains outside the overton window just because a lot of people are prudes, including many people on the left.

Just to be 100% clear - and you may already know this - a lot of SWERFs support sex worker's rights and legalization. The biggest divide with the hardcore SJW feminists and the SWERFs isn't at all about the laws and policies, which some but not all tend to agree on. It's about celebrating sex work as an honourable career versus finding it either bad or not-so-great or at least not ideal from a moral perspective.

If we look at the absolute extremes on either end to highlight the differences: an absolute extremist SJW feminist would encourage their daughter to pursue a career in sex work if the daughter showed an interest or passion in it, whereas an absolute extremist SWERF would disown their daughter for becoming a sex worker.

I mean, is there any significant number of people who want a career in sex work and plan their lives for it? Making it illegal is pointless but I struggle to see how it's an admirable or enjoyable path in life. I've certainly never encountered anyone enthusiastic about people joining the profession.

With the ascension of social media and sites like onlyfans, sex workers can rake in $100s of $1ks of dollars fairly easily with a partner/spouse and maybe a video or image editor. If anything, it's easier and more lucrative to be a sex worker now than ever before, and is less and less stigmatized.

idk, lumping a streetwalker in with someone who dresses up as Jadzia from Deep Space Nine and sells lingerie pictures on OnlyFans (n.b. this is someone I've actually met) as "sex workers" as if they're in the same line of work with the same dangers and the same moral calculus seems reductive to the point of disingenuousness to me.

Considering streetwalkers to be sex workers is about as intellectually honest as calling drug dealers "entrepreneurs".

But streetwalkers is one of the first things that comes to most people's minds when they hear "sex workers" (certainly not even remotely comparable to how often people associate "entrepreneur" to drug dealers).

Yeah, I was first introduced to "sex worker" as tout court a euphemism for "prostitute", and long refused to use it for that reason because it didn't strike me as the sort of issue that benefited from being discussed euphemistically. It was only a few years ago that I learned that people used it more broadly.

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

It's not immediately obvious to me that being a porn star should be more legal (or less illegal) than being a streetwalker.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Legalizing and regulating prostitution seems like a no brainer that remains outside the overton window just because a lot of people are prudes, including many people on the left.

Just to be 100% clear - and you may already know this - a lot of SWERFs support sex worker's rights and legalization. The biggest divide with the hardcore SJW feminists and the SWERFs isn't at all about the laws and policies, which some but not all tend to agree on. It's about celebrating sex work as an honourable career versus finding it either bad or not-so-great or at least not ideal from a moral perspective.

If we look at the absolute extremes on either end to highlight the differences: an absolute extremist SJW feminist would encourage their daughter to pursue a career in sex work if the daughter showed an interest or passion in it, whereas an absolute extremist SWERF would disown their daughter for becoming a sex worker.

I mean, is there any significant number of people who want a career in sex work and plan their lives for it? Making it illegal is pointless but I struggle to see how it's an admirable or enjoyable path in life. I've certainly never encountered anyone enthusiastic about people joining the profession.

With the ascension of social media and sites like onlyfans, sex workers can rake in $100s of $1ks of dollars fairly easily with a partner/spouse and maybe a video or image editor. If anything, it's easier and more lucrative to be a sex worker now than ever before, and is less and less stigmatized.

idk, lumping a streetwalker in with someone who dresses up as Jadzia from Deep Space Nine and sells lingerie pictures on OnlyFans (n.b. this is someone I've actually met) as "sex workers" as if they're in the same line of work with the same dangers and the same moral calculus seems reductive to the point of disingenuousness to me.

Considering streetwalkers to be sex workers is about as intellectually honest as calling drug dealers "entrepreneurs".

But streetwalkers is one of the first things that comes to most people's minds when they hear "sex workers" (certainly not even remotely comparable to how often people associate "entrepreneur" to drug dealers).

Yeah, I was first introduced to "sex worker" as tout court a euphemism for "prostitute", and long refused to use it for that reason because it didn't strike me as the sort of issue that benefited from being discussed euphemistically. It was only a few years ago that I learned that people used it more broadly.

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

It's not immediately obvious to me that being a porn star should be more legal (or less illegal) than being a streetwalker.

In Iceland strip clubs are illegal, but streetwalking is not, for example.

[SevenEleven]

Legalizing and regulating prostitution seems like a no brainer that remains outside the overton window just because a lot of people are prudes, including many people on the left.

Just to be 100% clear - and you may already know this - a lot of SWERFs support sex worker's rights and legalization. The biggest divide with the hardcore SJW feminists and the SWERFs isn't at all about the laws and policies, which some but not all tend to agree on. It's about celebrating sex work as an honourable career versus finding it either bad or not-so-great or at least not ideal from a moral perspective.

If we look at the absolute extremes on either end to highlight the differences: an absolute extremist SJW feminist would encourage their daughter to pursue a career in sex work if the daughter showed an interest or passion in it, whereas an absolute extremist SWERF would disown their daughter for becoming a sex worker.

I mean, is there any significant number of people who want a career in sex work and plan their lives for it? Making it illegal is pointless but I struggle to see how it's an admirable or enjoyable path in life. I've certainly never encountered anyone enthusiastic about people joining the profession.

With the ascension of social media and sites like onlyfans, sex workers can rake in $100s of $1ks of dollars fairly easily with a partner/spouse and maybe a video or image editor. If anything, it's easier and more lucrative to be a sex worker now than ever before, and is less and less stigmatized.

idk, lumping a streetwalker in with someone who dresses up as Jadzia from Deep Space Nine and sells lingerie pictures on OnlyFans (n.b. this is someone I've actually met) as "sex workers" as if they're in the same line of work with the same dangers and the same moral calculus seems reductive to the point of disingenuousness to me.

Considering streetwalkers to be sex workers is about as intellectually honest as calling drug dealers "entrepreneurs".

But streetwalkers is one of the first things that comes to most people's minds when they hear "sex workers" (certainly not even remotely comparable to how often people associate "entrepreneur" to drug dealers).

Yeah, I was first introduced to "sex worker" as tout court a euphemism for "prostitute", and long refused to use it for that reason because it didn't strike me as the sort of issue that benefited from being discussed euphemistically. It was only a few years ago that I learned that people used it more broadly.

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

It's not immediately obvious to me that being a porn star should be more legal (or less illegal) than being a streetwalker.

Nor to me, however, legally legitimate professions should not be grouped with criminal activity regardless of personal beliefs.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

what

[BaldEagle1991]

No. If Mattel wants to have a worse PR than Disney sometimes gets for going too far.

[HisGrace]

My old post seems to have blown up since I last logged in so I'll make some broad comments.

Lots jobs and undesirable and not things many people set out to do in life and yet they are not banned. That's not an argument here.

Since streetwalking came up I'd still want streetwalking and pimping banned and instead let them operate out of regulated brothels and/or independently out of their own residence by recruiting clients and advertising online. 

The reason I viewed this as a "no-brainer" is that all of the same arguments against vice laws (alcohol/drug prohibition) apply here with one key difference. The damaging effects of drugs or alcohol can't be 100% eliminated through legalization. That's an argument someone could make in favor of them being banned. With prostitution the problems stem from it being illegal. They need someone to take on the risk of finding clients and to deal with clients who try not to pay or get rough because they have no legitimate legal recourses. Thus they get involved with pimps or organized crime which obviously has a lot of downsides. It's the same reason the illicit drug trade is so violent. If it was legal there's no reason it couldn't be like any other service industry with proper regulation in place. If you're actually interested in the welfare of the women as opposed to moralizing that's what you'd do. There's no argument to be made that a prostitute in Nevada or who operated independently on Craigslist back in the day is worse off than a streetwalker.

And no, it shouldn't be stigmatized. I don't know that I'd "celebrate" it or make a barbie doll either but there's no reason it shouldn't be treated like any other job. I'm not going to look down on someone for what they do for a living.

[BaldEagle1991]

Legalizing and regulating prostitution seems like a no brainer that remains outside the overton window just because a lot of people are prudes, including many people on the left.

Just to be 100% clear - and you may already know this - a lot of SWERFs support sex worker's rights and legalization. The biggest divide with the hardcore SJW feminists and the SWERFs isn't at all about the laws and policies, which some but not all tend to agree on. It's about celebrating sex work as an honourable career versus finding it either bad or not-so-great or at least not ideal from a moral perspective.

If we look at the absolute extremes on either end to highlight the differences: an absolute extremist SJW feminist would encourage their daughter to pursue a career in sex work if the daughter showed an interest or passion in it, whereas an absolute extremist SWERF would disown their daughter for becoming a sex worker.

I mean, is there any significant number of people who want a career in sex work and plan their lives for it? Making it illegal is pointless but I struggle to see how it's an admirable or enjoyable path in life. I've certainly never encountered anyone enthusiastic about people joining the profession.

With the ascension of social media and sites like onlyfans, sex workers can rake in $100s of $1ks of dollars fairly easily with a partner/spouse and maybe a video or image editor. If anything, it's easier and more lucrative to be a sex worker now than ever before, and is less and less stigmatized.

idk, lumping a streetwalker in with someone who dresses up as Jadzia from Deep Space Nine and sells lingerie pictures on OnlyFans (n.b. this is someone I've actually met) as "sex workers" as if they're in the same line of work with the same dangers and the same moral calculus seems reductive to the point of disingenuousness to me.

Considering streetwalkers to be sex workers is about as intellectually honest as calling drug dealers "entrepreneurs".

But streetwalkers is one of the first things that comes to most people's minds when they hear "sex workers" (certainly not even remotely comparable to how often people associate "entrepreneur" to drug dealers).

Yeah, I was first introduced to "sex worker" as tout court a euphemism for "prostitute", and long refused to use it for that reason because it didn't strike me as the sort of issue that benefited from being discussed euphemistically. It was only a few years ago that I learned that people used it more broadly.

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Do you also think NFL cheerleaders and Hooters waitresses are semi sex workers? Or is that stretching it?

[Progressive Pessimist]

I don't know. But I do think there should be a corrupt Senator barbie doll modeled after Kelly Loeffler.

[Alben Barkley]

Why did this thought enter your head?

[Alben Barkley]

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Also, they ain't criminals in Nevada.

[SevenEleven]

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Also, they ain't criminals in Nevada.

Streetwalking is a crime in every Nevada county. As it should be, frankly.

[Alben Barkley]

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Also, they ain't criminals in Nevada.

Streetwalking is a crime in every Nevada county. As it should be, frankly.

Oh so we're not just using it is a generic term for "prostitutes," you're specifically talking about the ones literally walking the streets and not in brothels?

In that case I'm not sure if I agree or not. I generally am pretty libertarian about this sort of stuff. And whether there is a legal distinction between prostitutes and porn stars or not, logically and morally there's not one as far as I'm concerned, so I don't think it's a huge deal to group them together.

[SevenEleven]

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Also, they ain't criminals in Nevada.

Streetwalking is a crime in every Nevada county. As it should be, frankly.

Oh so we're not just using it is a generic term for "prostitutes," you're specifically talking about the ones literally walking the streets and not in brothels?

In that case I'm not sure if I agree or not. I generally am pretty libertarian about this sort of stuff. And whether there is a legal distinction between prostitutes and porn stars or not, logically and morally there's not one as far as I'm concerned, so I don't think it's a huge deal to group them together.

Escorts and prostitutes are whatever, I don't care. Streetwalkers shouldn't be allowed. I'm not in favor of people using our public space for their own financial purposes.

[FairBol]

I sure as hell hope not.  LOL. 

[John Dule]

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Maybe now an "Onlyfans model" Barbie.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Sex workers are strippers, porn stars, etc. Drug dealers and streetwalkers are criminals.

Also, they ain't criminals in Nevada.

Streetwalking is a crime in every Nevada county. As it should be, frankly.

Oh so we're not just using it is a generic term for "prostitutes," you're specifically talking about the ones literally walking the streets and not in brothels?

In that case I'm not sure if I agree or not. I generally am pretty libertarian about this sort of stuff. And whether there is a legal distinction between prostitutes and porn stars or not, logically and morally there's not one as far as I'm concerned, so I don't think it's a huge deal to group them together.

Escorts and prostitutes are whatever, I don't care. Streetwalkers shouldn't be allowed. I'm not in favor of people using our public space for their own financial purposes.

That's your problem with street walking?

[Crumpets]

Just to be clear, when I created the thread title, I meant "sex worker" in the broadest possible classification - "Will we ever have a Barbie doll with a career that could be labeled as sex work?" might be another way of phrasing that, however you want to interpret it.

Why did this thought enter your head?

I'm reading up on a lot of stuff about organized crime right now trying to brainstorm what I'm going to write on for my dissertation next year and about distinctions between (good/empowering) sex work and (obviously bad) sex slavery and trafficking. And I think it's an interesting discussion to be had. The fact is, there are a lot of people out there who, for one reason or another, are involved in sex work in whatever form that takes. We don't talk about it a lot, and it leads to, among other things, having one term that describes both camgirls making bank on onlyfans and people who have been kidnapped, raped, unpaid, and constantly threatened with death.

I was thinking this scenario might be a possibility because 1) I suspect there will be a move in the future to teach teens about safe sex work just as some places teach teens about safe sex (although there will of course always be detractors). And 2) there's a bigger move to have all people represented in the toys kids play with and what we see on TV. Think of how many kids there are out there right now who have a parent who is a sex worker. It's definitely more than the number of kids whose parent is an astronaut or a pop singer.

I don't necessarily think having a sex worker Barbie doll is definitely going to happen, but I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if it did one day.

[T'Chenka]

(good/empowering) sex work

I was thinking this scenario might be a possibility because 1) I suspect there will be a move in the future to teach teens about safe sex work just as some places teach teens about safe sex (although there will of course always be detractors). And 2) there's a bigger move to have all people represented in the toys kids play with and what we see on TV. Think of how many kids there are out there right now who have a parent who is a sex worker. It's definitely more than the number of kids whose parent is an astronaut or a pop singer.

Do you think companies are gonna attempt to sell parents on not only buying their kid an sex worker barbie doll, but then teach their YOUNG children about how sex work is empowering (and what sex work is, and what sex for pleasure instead of procreation is)?

I'm not buying it. Then again, it deends how many decades into the future we're talking about here. Things could change drastically in a century.

[Crumpets]

(good/empowering) sex work

I was thinking this scenario might be a possibility because 1) I suspect there will be a move in the future to teach teens about safe sex work just as some places teach teens about safe sex (although there will of course always be detractors). And 2) there's a bigger move to have all people represented in the toys kids play with and what we see on TV. Think of how many kids there are out there right now who have a parent who is a sex worker. It's definitely more than the number of kids whose parent is an astronaut or a pop singer.

Do you think companies are gonna attempt to sell parents on not only buying their kid an sex worker barbie doll, but then teach their YOUNG children about how sex work is empowering (and what sex work is, and what sex for pleasure instead of procreation is)?

I'm not buying it. Then again, it deends how many decades into the future we're talking about here. Things could change drastically in a century.

Not really. I'm thinking more like some woman writes to Mattel saying "hey, all my daughter's friends have Barbie dolls that have the same jobs as their mothers, and I'm a sex worker, so.... can you help me out here?" Meanwhile some private schools in liberal cities are starting to make discussions on sex work part of their regular sex-ed curriculum and you start to get pieces in Salon like "I was taught that working as a camgirl was just as legitimate as any other profession, yet we don't see this standard reflected in the media and society writ large!" And then some mid-level exec at Mattel goes "Meh, what the hell? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?"

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

No such thing as bad publicity?

I doubt the company that produced the Growing Up Skipper doll will ever forget that's not the case. More importantly, so long as the underaged Skipper is part of the Barbie lineup, there will never be an official sex worker Barbie.

[bagelman]

Yes as a bootleg.