George W. Bush told Jim Clyburn he was “the savior” for endorsing Biden and helping beat Trump

[KaiserDave]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

This about the primary obviously. SC still voted for Trump.

The argument at hand here, of course, is that only Biden winning the primary would've resulted in Trump losing the general. You don't have to agree with that argument, but at least acknowledge that that's the argument that's being made.

Kerry, McCain, Romney, and Hillary were supposed to be electable and lost.

They were electable. You are confusing electable with unbeatable.

Electable means you have a pathway to winning 270 electoral votes. Kerry and Hillary did. McCain and Romney could have in another year. But being electable means you can still lose. No one is truly unbeatable unless your FDR in 1936 or Reagan in 1984.

Who is unelectable?  Rick Santorum in 2012. Micheal Bloomberg in 2020.

Trump 2016 was supposed to be unelectable. Anyways, the polls showed that Bernie was a strong general election candidate and Biden's win was overwhelming. It's one thing to admit that you prefer neoliberal Democrats. It's another thing to hide behind this bogus electable argument. We're talking about Bernie as the nominee, not some joke like Tim Ryan.

2016 is one thing, but there's no evidence to suggest Bernie would have done better than Biden this year. In fact there's a great deal of evidence to the contrary.

What evidence is this? Bernie easily could have done a fair amount better than Biden. If we assume the worst case, he loses AZ and GA but still wins.

How, exactly?

Millions voted Biden/GOP down ballot who are a real question mark with a Bernie nomination, and it's clear at least in Miami Dade that the "scary socialism" were working against Biden, and probably would have been slightly more effective again Bernie. There's reason to believe Bernie doesn't do well in WOW enough to win Wisconsin, or that he doesn't perform strongly enough in SEPA to win Pennsylvania.

I don't know how you could say that Bernie would have done better than Biden when there is no evidence to suggest that. Bernie could have won, but saying he'd do better than Biden is completely unfounded.

Amazing how you're using areas Biden bombed in as an argument that Bernie would have done worse. Biden also bombed in South Texas and did a fair amount worse in places like Imperial county California. He just was't that great of a candidate for Hispanics.

Alright, but you're "amazingly" ignoring the core swing states of Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. I don't disagree that Bernie does better than Biden with Latinos in CA, AZ, TX, (though not as well as Clinton) but these gains would be nearly erased or potentially even erased and then some by losing ground compared to Biden in Orange County, Maricopa County, and Collin-Denton-Tarrant, which are far more relevant to winning CA, AZ, and TX.

Not to mention that Perdue almost certainly cracks 50% with Bernie as the nominee.


Edit: Also, what. Biden didn't bomb in WOW and SEPA. That's the whole point.

[brucejoel99]

Lol why do we still try with jfern? If the last ~17 years on Atlas hasn't led them to realize that facts & political realities don't care about their feelings, then what makes us think that piling on more facts & a greater emphasis on political realities will?

[KaiserDave]

Again, I'd prefer President Sanders to President Biden, but I'm not going to ignore the electoral realities at play here.

[dw93]

I think Bernie could've won, but it would've been closer. GA is gone in this scenario while AZ, WI, NE 2nd, and PA would be wild cards. If Trump is as deranged as he was against Biden, my hunch is Bernie flips MI, and by the very skin of his teeth, holds PA and one of WI or AZ (AZ due to Bernie doing better with non Cuban latinos). Any candidate that ran for the Democratic Nomination that wasn't named Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders would've lost, and in some cases lost bad, COVID or not.

[SevenEleven]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

This about the primary obviously. SC still voted for Trump.

The argument at hand here, of course, is that only Biden winning the primary would've resulted in Trump losing the general. You don't have to agree with that argument, but at least acknowledge that that's the argument that's being made.

The story here is that Bush much prefers Biden to Bernie and the electability argument is bogus. Kerry, McCain, Romney, and Hillary were supposed to be electable and lost.

Losing an election doesn't mean the candidate was "unelectable". Grow up.

[dw93]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

This about the primary obviously. SC still voted for Trump.

The argument at hand here, of course, is that only Biden winning the primary would've resulted in Trump losing the general. You don't have to agree with that argument, but at least acknowledge that that's the argument that's being made.

The story here is that Bush much prefers Biden to Bernie and the electability argument is bogus. Kerry, McCain, Romney, and Hillary were supposed to be electable and lost.

Losing an election doesn't mean the candidate was "unelectable". Grow up.

This. McGovern and Goldwater were the only two post war (and pre 2016) nominees  I'd consider unelectable. Even Mondale and Dole could've won the Presidency in different years or different circumstances.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

This about the primary obviously. SC still voted for Trump.

The argument at hand here, of course, is that only Biden winning the primary would've resulted in Trump losing the general. You don't have to agree with that argument, but at least acknowledge that that's the argument that's being made.

The story here is that Bush much prefers Biden to Bernie and the electability argument is bogus. Kerry, McCain, Romney, and Hillary were supposed to be electable and lost.

Losing an election doesn't mean the candidate was "unelectable". Grow up.

The "electable" candidates have a poor track record that show that "electable" really is a red herring.

[Sumner 1868]

The Lincoln Project is the new Democratic Party. Revolting.

[SevenEleven]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

This about the primary obviously. SC still voted for Trump.

The argument at hand here, of course, is that only Biden winning the primary would've resulted in Trump losing the general. You don't have to agree with that argument, but at least acknowledge that that's the argument that's being made.

The story here is that Bush much prefers Biden to Bernie and the electability argument is bogus. Kerry, McCain, Romney, and Hillary were supposed to be electable and lost.

Losing an election doesn't mean the candidate was "unelectable". Grow up.

The "electable" candidates have a poor track record that show that "electable" really is a red herring.

I feel like your chosen candidates have a much poorer track record. Good luck!

[Gracile]

Who cares what that war criminal thinks?

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Relitigating the primaries, JFern dominating the thread, enablers latching onto obvious bait and absolutely not letting go.

We may have a new president but Atlas is as predictable as ever.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I guess even Biden becoming President isn't going to stop us from rehashing the primary again, is it?

Why bring up a quote from a loser, who by her own definition of "true victory" never achieved it.

[Torie]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

Just in case there is any confusion, the person Dubya characterized as the "savior" was Clyburn, not himself.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

He can say he was "the savior," I really don't care.
But any help he gave, to defeat and remove the Orange Buffoon ... then I am 100% grateful.

Just in case there is any confusion, the person Dubya characterized as the "savior" was Clyburn, not himself.

Oh that makes more sense.

The level of delusion it would take to make W think he could move any voters, much less Democratic primary voters is astronomical.

That said, why do we care what W thinks again?

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

Biden was not "the chosen one" destined to bring balance to the electorate. Many Democrats could have won in 2020.

[LtNOWIS]

Ah yes, the wise words of notorious victor Hillary Clinton.

Why bring up a quote from a loser, who by her own definition of "true victory" never achieved it.

Clinton never said that, it's from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

The Lincoln Project is the new Democratic Party. Revolting.

Very few Democrats like the Lincoln Project.

[7,052,770]

I guess even Biden becoming President isn't going to stop us from rehashing the primary again, is it?

Why bring up a quote from a loser, who by her own definition of "true victory" never achieved it.

Not sure if you're answering in-universe, but using "her" implies you're not. You did get it a few years ago:

Gul Du Clinton?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I guess even Biden becoming President isn't going to stop us from rehashing the primary again, is it?

Why bring up a quote from a loser, who by her own definition of "true victory" never achieved it.

Not sure if you're answering in-universe, but using "her" implies you're not. You did get it a few years ago:

Gul Du Clinton?

It was easier to get given your then screen name.  But yeah, Dukat never achieved a "true victory" either.  Indeed, Dukat's whole character arc demonstrates how seeking perfection at all costs can lead to not even achieving the adequate.

[WMS]

The Lincoln Project is the new Democratic Party. Revolting.

Very few Democrats like the Lincoln Project.

I at least respect their unbending anti-Trump stance and activities. Which is more than I can say for the tankie/Rose Twitter/Bernie Bro people who spent more time attacking other leftists and centrists than attacking Trump and his followers.

[WMS]

I at least respect their unbending anti-Trump stance and activities. Which is more than I can say for the tankie/Rose Twitter/Bernie Bro people who spent more time attacking other leftists and centrists than attacking Trump and his followers.

Their anti-Trump credentials are impeccable enough, but where are they on pederasty?

No idea. It felt like you were referring to something, but a a Google search didn’t make that clear.

[WMS]

Hmm. Might be because I was searching on “The Lincoln Project controversies” instead of on the cofounder.

Edit: Well, Google doesn’t show that story at all in the first several pages under the search term above. It wasn’t in Wikipedia either. How odd.

[MillennialModerate]

Biden was not "the chosen one" destined to bring balance to the electorate. Many Democrats could have won in 2020.

The combined total votes in the deciding states was less than of Trumps 77k in 2016.

Before November I’d agree multiple canidates could’ve won. But...No way is that true

[DaleCooper]

I think Democrats other than Biden could've won but absolutely none of the other frontrunners in the primary could've done it.

In hindsight, I'm starting to believe that the endless 2020 primary, in which almost every candidate except for Biden raced to attach themselves to the most unpopular positions imaginable in order to compete with Sanders really did a number on the Democratic Party's credibility more than almost anything else.

[darklordoftech]

In hindsight, I'm starting to believe that the endless 2020 primary, in which almost every candidate except for Biden raced to attach themselves to the most unpopular positions imaginable in order to compete with Sanders really did a number on the Democratic Party's credibility more than almost anything else.

None of the candidates besides Sanders called themselves “socialist”, and the “defund the police” movement didn’t begin until after the primaries were over, so what do you have in mind?