Who won the final Presidential debate?

[Asta]

YouGov, DFP, and CNN all found Biden leading by double digits in post-debate polls:

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/1319496648893095937?s=20
Doomers will probably say it's not as big a lead as the last one (although not actually the case for the YouGov one at least), but:

1. It's still a sizable, double digit lead.

2. It matches up pretty well with what the horse race numbers are, which is terrible for Trump.

3. It sure as hell means Trump's not going to get any sort of boost from this. Everybody is entrenched at this point.

One of the best ways to determine the winner is to see how many crossover voters there are. Biden got a higher share of Republicans that think he won in the first debate than Trump got a share of Democrats.

Biden likely replicated that feat again today.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

lol:

https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1319487282953465856

The MAGA death cult is like Paultards from 2008 and 2012, spamming to death every online poll.

[BlueSwan]

Trump was far sharper than he usually is. Actually came prepared. In that sense he probably gave republicans on the fence the excuse they need to pull the lever for him.

As for the actual debate Joe Biden won pretty clearly and this was his best performance this season with the possible exception of the Biden-Sanders debate. Should absolutely kill the Biden has dementia talking point if it wasn’t dead already.

Overall, it probably doesn’t change much. Possibly a small plus for Trump given that this performance somewhat erases his completely nutcase behaviour post getting Covid in the minds of americans with goldfish level cognitive abilities.

One good thing for Biden is that the Hunter Biden attacks fell pretty flat.

[Panda Express]

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1319508767558438912?s=20

[Benjamin Frank]

Trump was far sharper than he usually is. Actually came prepared. In that sense he probably gave republicans on the fence the excuse they need to pull the lever for him.

As for the actual debate Joe Biden won pretty clearly and this was his best performance this season with the possible exception of the Biden-Sanders debate. Should absolutely kill the Biden has dementia talking point if it wasn’t dead already.

Overall, it probably doesn’t change much. Possibly a small plus for Trump given that this performance somewhat erases his completely nutcase behaviour post getting Covid in the minds of americans with goldfish level cognitive abilities.

One good thing for Biden is that the Hunter Biden attacks fell pretty flat.

It's easy to seem prepared when you aren't constrained by actual facts.

Also, I thought most of his answers were semi incoherent.  He was better prepared in that he was restrained from getting into arguments for the most part.

[Benjamin Frank]

I appreciate the concerns of those who would be negatively effected by Biden's policy on moving to renewable energy.  Though they do have until 2035 to adjust and many energy companies already are moving to renewables.

However, clearly Donald Trump was the traditional politician here: beholden to powerful corporate interests.

Also, this isn't anything new, but I thought just how much Donald Trump demands to be held to a different standard than everybody else was thoroughly exposed.

Donald Trump
"Joe Biden is a failed politician because as vice president he couldn't negotiate with Congress

Also Donald Trump
"It's Nancy Pelosi's fault I couldn't get covid relief.  I'm not responsible."

[Badger]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

I STRONGLY disagree. "Wind kills birds." What? Trump was flat-out objectively wrong in just about everything he said in those sections. And/or incoherent. And the rest of the debate, Biden spanked him. ESPECIALLY on COVID and healthcare, you know, the most important topics of the election.

Biden was winning on the topic until the oil gaffe imo

Not a gaffe. Most Americans agree.

[Benjamin Frank]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

I STRONGLY disagree. "Wind kills birds." What? Trump was flat-out objectively wrong in just about everything he said in those sections. And/or incoherent. And the rest of the debate, Biden spanked him. ESPECIALLY on COVID and healthcare, you know, the most important topics of the election.

Biden was winning on the topic until the oil gaffe imo

Not a gaffe. Most Americans agree.

That's not necessarily how these things work though.  It isn't what most people agree with, but who votes based on which issue.  It might be reasonable to conclude that the majority of people who will vote on this are those who support the status quo of fossil fuels.

It might also be reasonable to conclude that most of those are Donald Trump supporters to begin with, but that might be less certain.

[Tender Branson]

Biden was taking Trump to the woodchopper in the first 30 minutes I watched.

Trump looked like a 6-year old who got bent over Biden's knees while being spanked ...

[DaleCooper]

This talk about the oil comments remind me of the panicking people were doing when they thought Trump would poll better because of his law and order fear-mongering at the height of the Floyd protests and riots. Times have changed, and drill baby drill isn't something that appeals to the voters Trump needs to win. Much like race relations, voters have come a long way on the issue of climate change in recent years.

Biden won't be hurt by talking about transitioning away from oil at some vague point in the future.

[Benjamin Frank]

This talk about the oil comments remind me of the panicking people were doing when they thought Trump would poll better because of his law and order fear-mongering at the height of the Floyd protests and riots. Times have changed, and drill baby drill isn't something that appeals to the voters Trump needs to win. Much like race relations, voters have come a long way on the issue of climate change in recent years.

Biden won't be hurt by talking about transitioning away from oil at some vague point in the future.

Texas is one of the leading states in production of renewable energy.

[new_patomic]

The framing of 'destroying the oil industry' probably isn't helpful but yeah. There's far worse issues for Republicans to waste their time on in the next week and a half.



The interesting thing is, regardless of how the public might perceive it, the campaigns/pundits are going to call it a gaffe and a risk. Kendra Horn has already distanced herself from it. In one sense Biden has gaffe'd himself into a position which is... not unpopular?

[Hammy]

The interesting thing is, regardless of how the public might perceive it, the campaigns/pundits are going to call it a gaffe and a risk. Kendra Horn has already distanced herself from it. In one sense Biden has gaffe'd himself into a position which is... not unpopular?

They're utterly desperate at this point for the horse race narrative. It's just not happening, so they have to find ANY little thing they can and blow it up into this big mistake or gaffe etc. For some reason, to them, "make the race as close as possible" is the only thing that will bring ratings.

[South Dakota Democrat]

I think with Trump under the threat of being muted, Biden had space to make his positions clear.

Biden was quite good.

Trump however did handle the "Paris Accord' stuff well.

Why should the USA sign up for reductions in industrial activity when China, India and Russia do not stop polluting until 2030?

Trump did get that point across well.

Trump is more feisty, but clearly, Biden is more 'Presidential' in a traditional sense.

I think the race has tightened, but I cannot escape the COVID-19 infection at the point where Trump lost it.

Even if Trump won the debate, it's too little, too late.

"My neighbor is killing children, so why shouldn't I too? Children are going to be killed either way, after all."

(This is almost literally what you're saying, by the way.)

Yup, a rather dumb argument, to be sure.

[South Dakota Democrat]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

No.

[BlueSwan]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

I STRONGLY disagree. "Wind kills birds." What? Trump was flat-out objectively wrong in just about everything he said in those sections. And/or incoherent. And the rest of the debate, Biden spanked him. ESPECIALLY on COVID and healthcare, you know, the most important topics of the election.

Biden was winning on the topic until the oil gaffe imo

Not a gaffe. Most Americans agree.

That's not necessarily how these things work though.  It isn't what most people agree with, but who votes based on which issue.  It might be reasonable to conclude that the majority of people who will vote on this are those who support the status quo of fossil fuels.

This is an extremely important point that is often overlooked when people state that the public agrees with most democratic policies. Similarly, most people favour taxing the rich, but very few people who are in favour of that actually vote based on that, whereas those affected by a tax hike might very well vote (and donate) based on that.

[Benjamin Frank]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

I STRONGLY disagree. "Wind kills birds." What? Trump was flat-out objectively wrong in just about everything he said in those sections. And/or incoherent. And the rest of the debate, Biden spanked him. ESPECIALLY on COVID and healthcare, you know, the most important topics of the election.

Biden was winning on the topic until the oil gaffe imo

Not a gaffe. Most Americans agree.

That's not necessarily how these things work though.  It isn't what most people agree with, but who votes based on which issue.  It might be reasonable to conclude that the majority of people who will vote on this are those who support the status quo of fossil fuels.

This is an extremely important point that is often overlooked when people state that the public agrees with most democratic policies. Similarly, most people favour taxing the rich, but very few people who are in favour of that actually vote based on that, whereas those affected by a tax hike might very well vote (and donate) based on that.

I can't take credit for the coming up with the point.  It was often said in the 1990s and 2000s in regards to guns and abortion.  A majority of Americans favored gun control and abortion rights, but most people who voted on those issues were against gun control and abortion rights.

[BlueSwan]

I literally do not understand people who think Trump won. We must have been watching debates. "Not making QUITE as much of a fool of himself as last time" does not, in fact, constitute a "win."

Well On how it relates to the election yah Biden will still win, but on pure debate terms every topic was basically a tie except the economy and energy which Trump win

I STRONGLY disagree. "Wind kills birds." What? Trump was flat-out objectively wrong in just about everything he said in those sections. And/or incoherent. And the rest of the debate, Biden spanked him. ESPECIALLY on COVID and healthcare, you know, the most important topics of the election.

Biden was winning on the topic until the oil gaffe imo

Not a gaffe. Most Americans agree.

That's not necessarily how these things work though.  It isn't what most people agree with, but who votes based on which issue.  It might be reasonable to conclude that the majority of people who will vote on this are those who support the status quo of fossil fuels.

This is an extremely important point that is often overlooked when people state that the public agrees with most democratic policies. Similarly, most people favour taxing the rich, but very few people who are in favour of that actually vote based on that, whereas those affected by a tax hike might very well vote (and donate) based on that.

I can't take credit for the coming up with the point.  It was often said in the 1990s and 2000s in regards to guns and abortion.  A majority of Americans favored gun control and abortion rights, but most people who voted on those issues were against gun control and abortion rights.

Exactly!

[wbrocks67]

Wait, Biden won 54-35 in the YouGov poll? That's pretty stark considering he only won by 7 in the first debates YouGov poll (48-41), so that's pretty damn huge.

Also, the CNN poll was a bit R-skewing, which never happens since they're usually D-skewing, and with that, Biden still won by 14% and had a +15 favorability versus Trump, so...

[wbrocks67]

Also shocked that the CNN undecided voter panel had 9 Biden winning, 2 draw, and 0 for Trump. Usually their panels like that are way more messy.

[Phenix621]

Hillary Clinton won all her debates. Al Gore won all his debates. These debates don’t really matter anymore. We’re not in the age of Nixon and Kennedy.

The better question is did Trump do well enough for people to be ok with voting for him.

[wbrocks67]

Hillary Clinton won all her debates. Al Gore won all his debates. These debates don’t really matter anymore. We’re not in the age of Nixon and Kennedy.

The better question is did Trump do well enough for people to be ok with voting for him.

They do, b/c Hillary likely would've won if the election was held right after the last debate.

[Earthling]

Hillary Clinton won all her debates. Al Gore won all his debates. These debates don’t really matter anymore. We’re not in the age of Nixon and Kennedy.

The better question is did Trump do well enough for people to be ok with voting for him.

You can't have of both ways.
Either the debates matter enough for Trump to have a positive moment or nobody cares and Trump performance doesn't change one thing.

[Kleine Scheiße]

this was trump's best performance out of all five general election debates he has now participated in

he still did terribly

[Phenix621]

Hillary Clinton won all her debates. Al Gore won all his debates. These debates don’t really matter anymore. We’re not in the age of Nixon and Kennedy.

The better question is did Trump do well enough for people to be ok with voting for him.

You can't have of both ways.
Either the debates matter enough for Trump to have a positive moment or nobody cares and Trump performance doesn't change one thing.

It’s not both ways. You’re looking at the debate as a binary thing but it’s not. It’s Trump pulpit to tell Traditionalists in the rust belt that it’s ok to vote for him. Trump is not trying to make a pitch to the country, he’s making a pitch to his base to come out and vote for him. That’s the rub—did he make a convincing argument for the blue avatars that voting for him is in their best interests.

That’s what the red avatars on this forum fail to understand. This election isn’t how popular Biden is. He’s literally Vanilla and the most generic politician to run on a ticket since I’ve been alive. The question is how toxic is Trump for white working class males and suburban women. The only demographics that matter in this election is white working class voters. They broke hard for Trump last election, will they do so again?