Pope Francis supports civil unions for same-sex couples

[Mr. Illini]

ROME (AP) — Pope Francis endorsed same-sex civil unions for the first time as pope while being interviewed for the feature-length documentary “Francesco,” which had its premiere at the Rome Film Festival on Wednesday.

“Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God,” Francis said in one of his sit-down interviews for the film. “What we have to have is a civil union law; that way they are legally covered.”

https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-civil-unions-discrimination-buenos-aires-evgeny-afineevsky-eb3509b30ebac35e91aa7cbda2013de2?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

Vivat papam!

[Sir Mohamed]

Majority of Americans and most other Western civilisations have moved past SSM in recent 5 years. May have a limited impact in Latin and Southern American countries and European countries like Italy and Poland that tend to be more socially conservative.

[MichaelRbn]

Civil unions.  So still about twenty years behind the curve.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This isn't really relevant to the US, especially since the generally right-leaning American bishops probably won't change their own attitudes towards gay issues at all on the basis of an interview with a Pope many of them are suspicious of. There's already a thread on this in R&P so maybe this one should go in International General?

Civil unions.  So still about twenty years behind the curve.

Keep in mind that the Pope has a worldwide constituency. Something like this that's a laughably minor concession to where Europe and most of the New World are at can also be a huge deal in heavily-evangelized African and Southeast Asian countries where being gay is still punishable by jail time.

[Calthrina950]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

Benedict did, on paper, commit the Church to supporting decriminalization of homosexuality in countries where that hasn't happened yet, but it's not exactly something the Holy See has put much actual diplomatic effort into since.

[TDAS04]

The Pope is a pretty clear FF.  Catholics are more sensible than evangelicals.

[Horus]

Party like it's 2005.

[iratemoderate]

Civil unions are a joke but this is a good development for the long haul. Strategically, his support can be adduced to bolster efforts to implement civil unions where no rights exist (e.g., Poland) or to move on to full *civil* marriage rights, a distinction which is fine enough to enough people that his continued opposition to full same-sex marriage can be conveniently brushed over by politicians who can be persuaded to change the laws. I suspect the impact will be stronger in places like Latin America, namely, those parts where Evangelicals are still <25%. Probably the most immediate candidate in this regard is Chile, where a thaw in opposition among the "compassionate conservative" sectors of the Chilean right could allow for an opening. Perhaps this will also help with giving more impetus to the issue in places like Switzerland, Andorra, and Liechtenstein, where debate seems to be very much in the cards. (Every predominantly Protestant country of European stock has legalized same-sex marriage, so, as far as the Western world goes, it will be exclusively on the Catholic, Orthodox, and irreligious fronts that future change occurs.)

I don't anticipate any eastern European country legalizing same-sex marriage before Italy, and I suspect there it will take a referendum as there is not enough political will even were supportive parties to obtain a majority.

We already have a cultural/legal Iron Curtain on the marriage issue in Europe, and barring developments in the Czech Republic and a higher-turnout reboot in Slovenia, a future favorable ruling by the ECHR will likely be necessary for same-sex marriage to be realized anywhere else. (Greece and maybe even Cyprus are possible wildcards, but I am skeptical.)

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Well, the church has made it to this century.

[Santander]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

Benedict resigned 7 years ago when the conversation was very different.

[Tintrlvr]

Well, the church has made it to this century.

Let’s hope they get past 2002 quickly.

[Badger]

Civil unions.  So still about twenty years behind the curve.

Cut him some slack. It's the freaking Pope!! This is like the president of the US Chamber of Commerce endorsing Universal single-payer healthcare.

So proud of Francis.

[Badger]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

Benedict resigned 7 years ago when the conversation was very different.

If still Pope today, Benedict wouldn't consider anything remotely close to a statement like this in a million years. Francis is a decidedly different Pope, and for the better.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I guess progress is progress, but yeah much of the world is beyond this. Maybe in another seven years he'll catch up.

[Calthrina950]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

Benedict resigned 7 years ago when the conversation was very different.

If still Pope today, Benedict wouldn't consider anything remotely close to a statement like this in a million years. Francis is a decidedly different Pope, and for the better.

This is what I was going to say.

[Mr. Illini]

It’s been pretty sad watching people downplay this, both here and on the various social media platforms.

It’s no secret that most of the West has moved beyond civil unions. Do people expect the Pope to be radical on these issues? For LGBT Catholics, this is huge, even if they live in a country that has SSM. It is a signal that not just they are welcome in the church, but that their relationships and families are valued. I’m speaking personally.

Not to mention that there are heavily Catholic countries outside of the West that still have very strict policies against homosexuality.

[Enduro]

Generally, I don't support the existence of a pope, but I do agree with him on this point.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I find it interesting that posters here aren't satisfied with this move. Considering that this is the Catholic Church which we are talking about, I still find that it is a substantial step forward. Does anyone think that Francis' predecessor Benedict would have made this kind of concession? I don't think so.

Nope, nor would JPII:

In 2003, under the leadership of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and at the direction of Pope John Paul II, the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith taught that “respect for homosexual persons cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behaviour or to legal recognition of homosexual unions. The common good requires that laws recognize, promote and protect marriage as the basis of the family, the primary unit of society.”

“Legal recognition of homosexual unions or placing them on the same level as marriage would mean not only the approval of deviant behaviour, with the consequence of making it a model in present-day society, but would also obscure basic values which belong to the common inheritance of humanity. The Church cannot fail to defend these values, for the good of men and women and for the good of society itself,” the CDF added, calling support for such unions from politicians “gravely immoral.”

Conservative Catholics are trying to wordsmith a way around this, but I just can't see how Pope Francis's unambiguous endorsement of legal same-sex unions doesn't clash with the Vatican's unambiguous past condemnations.

[T'Chenka]

Generally, I don't support the existence of a pope, but I do agree with him on this point.

This pope is as close to an awesome leftist progressive as we're gonna get insofar as Catholic popes go.

[swf541]

Not Catholic, but a major FF move, people seem to be forgetting the vast Catholic presence in Africa and other non western regions

[Edu]

Why is this on US general discussion?