French history teacher stabbed, decapitated by Islamic extremist
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  French history teacher stabbed, decapitated by Islamic extremist
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Author Topic: French history teacher stabbed, decapitated by Islamic extremist  (Read 2172 times)
Crane
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« on: October 16, 2020, 01:55:59 PM »

He shouted "Allah Akbar" and later admitted to it on Twitter.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attack-man-decapitated-latest-b107850
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Saruku
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 02:31:33 PM »

I hope you understand that the takbir is used in many different contexts, and doesn't have any violent connotations in and of itself (though it is indeed relevant here because it indicates his belief that he's acting on behalf of God).
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Crane
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 03:45:48 PM »

I hope you understand that the takbir is used in many different contexts, and doesn't have any violent connotations in and of itself (though it is indeed relevant here because it indicates his belief that he's acting on behalf of God).

Yes. He was heard screaming it around the time of the attack by a witness, so we can conclude the two things are related here.
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Omega21
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 04:08:24 PM »

Sad to see such a great country regress to this.


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Samof94
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 04:49:10 PM »

He apparently depicted Mohammed with cartoons negatively.
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dead0man
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 05:10:28 PM »

slow down, maybe it's not terrorism...lets wait for the evidence to come in
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John Dule
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 06:16:55 PM »

Yes, but more importantly I'm sure he felt very culturally enriched as his head left his shoulders.
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kelestian
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 06:34:11 PM »

That was a Chechen guy.

Btw, it happen if 10%+ of your country population is Muslim. France should reconsider boundaries of freedom of speech in such circumstances. And know, those purely symbolical Macron's homeschooling bans would't help at all.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 06:47:43 PM »

The kind of people who do this are often those most divorced from the actual tenets of the religion but spiritually feeling very much in line with its ethos, even if that's not the case in reality.
Yes, this is terrorism. No doubt about it. I hope boneheadedness does not prevail however in how this is reacted to.
It's counterproductive to throw the baby in with the bathwater. Terms like takbir, allahu akbar, even jihad* have their place if used properly, and in fact Western Europeans especially tend to be badly misinformed on some of these things.
Condolences to the family of the teacher and to his students; and may people live together in as much harmony as is possible.
*=can mean struggle within the mind for self-improvement, a la Islam's version of nirvana or whatnot. Or it can mean acting wholy peacefully in the public sphere, doing activism and whatnot.
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PSOL
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 06:55:22 PM »

I see the upper class are once again doing their normal routine.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 07:02:36 PM »

Teacher encouraging Freedom of Speech decapitated.

Islamic terrorist with bloodied knife shot dead by Police.

Not much more complicated than that.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 09:48:41 PM »

People ridicule Jesus and other aspects of Christianity all the time without anyone getting beheaded. It is not bigoted to point out that Islam is specifically having trouble adapting to the modern world.
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PSOL
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 10:58:02 PM »

People ridicule Jesus and other aspects of Christianity all the time without anyone getting beheaded. It is not bigoted to point out that Islam is specifically having trouble adapting to the modern world.
Most places where they ridicule Christianity is where they face zero repercussions for such acts. Compare that to Russia where they are starting to jail critics of the Orthodox Church and Christianity—if the various gangs don’t get to them first that is.

This entire thread lacks the context of why and how France got to this position, which can be surely blamed on several intertwining factors

1. The deterioration of the outskirts of French metropolitan areas by the central government
2. Rise of Islamism appealing to dispossessed youths
3. Poor job market
4. “European“ Francophone chauvinism (Racism)
5. Accelerated Dismantling of the Welfare state

But noooo, clearly the very existence of these people is a cause of this Murder—material conditions be damned.
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John Dule
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 12:03:10 AM »

People ridicule Jesus and other aspects of Christianity all the time without anyone getting beheaded. It is not bigoted to point out that Islam is specifically having trouble adapting to the modern world.
Most places where they ridicule Christianity is where they face zero repercussions for such acts. Compare that to Russia where they are starting to jail critics of the Orthodox Church and Christianity—if the various gangs don’t get to them first that is.

This entire thread lacks the context of why and how France got to this position, which can be surely blamed on several intertwining factors

1. The deterioration of the outskirts of French metropolitan areas by the central government
2. Rise of Islamism appealing to dispossessed youths
3. Poor job market
4. “European“ Francophone chauvinism (Racism)
5. Accelerated Dismantling of the Welfare state

But noooo, clearly the very existence of these people is a cause of this Murder—material conditions be damned.

It's unbelievable how eager leftists are to consider factors like "economic anxiety" in incidents like these when the perpetrator isn't a white man.
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PSOL
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 12:41:27 AM »

People ridicule Jesus and other aspects of Christianity all the time without anyone getting beheaded. It is not bigoted to point out that Islam is specifically having trouble adapting to the modern world.
Most places where they ridicule Christianity is where they face zero repercussions for such acts. Compare that to Russia where they are starting to jail critics of the Orthodox Church and Christianity—if the various gangs don’t get to them first that is.

This entire thread lacks the context of why and how France got to this position, which can be surely blamed on several intertwining factors

1. The deterioration of the outskirts of French metropolitan areas by the central government
2. Rise of Islamism appealing to dispossessed youths
3. Poor job market
4. “European“ Francophone chauvinism (Racism)
5. Accelerated Dismantling of the Welfare state

But noooo, clearly the very existence of these people is a cause of this Murder—material conditions be damned.

It's unbelievable how eager leftists are to consider factors like "economic anxiety" in incidents like these when the perpetrator isn't a white man.
Oh we do, we just say that the pork fed them idpol to act like an idiot instead of going after the real reason for their problems. Quite similar to the Islamic porky clerics in the Gulf and Pakistan responsible for propagating this to immigrant communities.
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John Dule
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 02:48:50 AM »

People ridicule Jesus and other aspects of Christianity all the time without anyone getting beheaded. It is not bigoted to point out that Islam is specifically having trouble adapting to the modern world.
Most places where they ridicule Christianity is where they face zero repercussions for such acts. Compare that to Russia where they are starting to jail critics of the Orthodox Church and Christianity—if the various gangs don’t get to them first that is.

This entire thread lacks the context of why and how France got to this position, which can be surely blamed on several intertwining factors

1. The deterioration of the outskirts of French metropolitan areas by the central government
2. Rise of Islamism appealing to dispossessed youths
3. Poor job market
4. “European“ Francophone chauvinism (Racism)
5. Accelerated Dismantling of the Welfare state

But noooo, clearly the very existence of these people is a cause of this Murder—material conditions be damned.

It's unbelievable how eager leftists are to consider factors like "economic anxiety" in incidents like these when the perpetrator isn't a white man.
Oh we do, we just say that the pork fed them idpol to act like an idiot instead of going after the real reason for their problems. Quite similar to the Islamic porky clerics in the Gulf and Pakistan responsible for propagating this to immigrant communities.


When a guy kills his wife and says "It was because she cheated on me," we generally accept that as an explanation for what transpired. Why, then, when a Muslim drives a van over a sidewalk full of tourists, do we not accept his explanation that he did it for religious reasons? Sorry, but as leftists are so fond of telling me, not every human decision is related to economic calculus. It's hard for atheists to understand, but religous people actually do believe this crap enough to act this way. No extra explanation required.
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Intell
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 03:53:35 AM »

Lefties- Islamist commits murder must be because of economic/social alienation
Conservatives- White Nationalist commits murder must be because of economic/social alienation
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Wazza [INACTIVE]
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 06:18:37 AM »

Sad to see such a great country regress to this.




You can hardly call Paris a European city at this stage.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 06:20:59 AM »

Sad to see such a great country regress to this.




You can hardly call Paris a European city at this stage.
On what grounds is it hardly "European"?
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dead0man
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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2020, 06:37:53 AM »

This entire thread lacks the context of why and how France got to this position, which can be surely blamed on several intertwining factors

1. The deterioration of the outskirts of French metropolitan areas by the central government
2. Rise of Islamism appealing to dispossessed youths
3. Poor job market
4. “European“ Francophone chauvinism (Racism)
5. Accelerated Dismantling of the Welfare state

But noooo, clearly the very existence of these people is a cause of this Murder—material conditions be damned.
so you're saying that if:
1.France didn't let suburbs go to hell
2.France had no dispossessed youth
3.France had a good job market (to do that they'd have to do things you'd hate)
4.If Euros and Frenchies were never racist
5.and if they slowed their dismantling of the welfare state (I didn't know France was "dismantling the welfare state", but I must say that is great news if true)

you think if all of those things were true, it would be safe to draw pictures of Mo (pbuh) in France?  'cause I don't think it would.

It's interesting that in a list of blames for this, it only includes faults France has made and none for the racists that encouraged this man to murder someone...or, ya know, the murderer himself.


Second question, should people be able to draw pictures of Mo (pbuh)?  What if they do it in an insulting way?
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2020, 06:54:06 AM »

Sad to see such a great country regress to this.




You can hardly call Paris a European city at this stage.

Go on, say what you actually mean here rather than hiding behind euphemisms.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2020, 07:25:55 AM »

That’s exactly what happens if you allow these hordes of fanatical, religiously brainwashed Muslim immigrants into our countries.

I have warned about these developments for years ...
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2020, 08:34:58 AM »
« Edited: October 17, 2020, 08:38:14 AM by Senator tack50 (Lab-Lincoln) »

Honestly France (really all of Europe, but France especially) has a very big problem with muslim terrorism. In fact, here is a comparison I like to go to:

France muslim attacks (2015-present): 260 deaths, 43 deaths/year

ETA, Spain (1972-2010): 854 deaths, 21 deaths/year

Yes you heard that right. French radical muslims are somehow twice as deadly for France as ETA was for Spain. Let that sink in.

And that's with French muslims being completely unorganized. If (somehow) a "French Al Qaeda" formed, well, Northern Ireland during the Troubles would look like a utopia of peace, Rainbows and sunshine compared to France (or Western Europe at-large really).
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parochial boy
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2020, 08:51:57 AM »

Yes, but more importantly I'm sure he felt very culturally enriched as his head left his shoulders.

Well if you want to go down that route - basically yes, French culture is so unimaginitive and conservative that if it hadn't been for imimgration from West and North Africa it would basically be a sad pastiche of what it was in the 1950s. Basically everything interesting and creative that happens in France these days is the product of people with Arab or West African roots.

As for the attack, there's no point in rehashing the same old argument about what has happened - obviously there is some factor about the emergence of violent Islamism as an ideology, online radicalistion; but also social exclusion, teenagers feeling rejected by mainstream society who react by playing up their "muslim" identity and whatever. And by all means, France has done an irreproachable job of basically telling 10% of its population that being a Muslim is incompatible with participating in mainstream society. It is also a well attested truth that for whatever combination of reasons, young Muslims in France are generally more religious, more radical and more likely to reject mainstream society than their parents were. So something has changed, it is not an essential part of being a Muslim or whatever as some people in this thread seem to be implying.

In that respect, the tedious clash of civilisations war that is being trotted out in this thread is as depressing as it is predictable - the idea that the millions of non-violent and well integrated Muslims should be rejected and blamed is the same as saying "well, right-wing Americans have a terrorist problem at the moment, why don't we throw all them out of Europe too".

And that's with French muslims being completely unorganized. If (somehow) a "French Al Qaeda" formed, well, Northern Ireland during the Troubles would look like a utopia of peace, Rainbows and sunshine compared to France (or Western Europe at-large really).

Not really, the nature of terrorism has moved on - the way it works these days tends to be in these isolated cell types of organisation. It is absolutely untrue to say it is organised, it is organised, the cells are generally collected to some sort of ideological leadership; it just isn't the same traditional command structure. In part because the security forces generally have a much better idea of how to deal with that.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2020, 09:25:20 AM »

Yes, but more importantly I'm sure he felt very culturally enriched as his head left his shoulders.

Well if you want to go down that route - basically yes, French culture is so unimaginitive and conservative that if it hadn't been for imimgration from West and North Africa it would basically be a sad pastiche of what it was in the 1950s. Basically everything interesting and creative that happens in France these days is the product of people with Arab or West African roots.

As for the attack, there's no point in rehashing the same old argument about what has happened - obviously there is some factor about the emergence of violent Islamism as an ideology, online radicalistion; but also social exclusion, teenagers feeling rejected by mainstream society who react by playing up their "muslim" identity and whatever. And by all means, France has done an irreproachable job of basically telling 10% of its population that being a Muslim is incompatible with participating in mainstream society. It is also a well attested truth that for whatever combination of reasons, young Muslims in France are generally more religious, more radical and more likely to reject mainstream society than their parents were. So something has changed, it is not an essential part of being a Muslim or whatever as some people in this thread seem to be implying.

In that respect, the tedious clash of civilisations war that is being trotted out in this thread is as depressing as it is predictable - the idea that the millions of non-violent and well integrated Muslims should be rejected and blamed is the same as saying "well, right-wing Americans have a terrorist problem at the moment, why don't we throw all them out of Europe too".

While I agree overall, there are many things where I disagree on this.

You make it seem as that, without any immigration, France would be some sort of European backwater, if not economically at the very least culturally? This is 100% wrong? Let us not forget stuff like the events of 1968, or really the fact that France has a long and very vibrant culture?

And even if it was true, would it actually be bad? Switzerland is (stereotypically at least) a rather small c conservative country, yet it seems to be doing pretty good to me?

The ship for that scenario has long sailed of course; the "mistake" was done in the 1950s and not now; and hindsight is 20/20, especially 60-70 years from the future; so this is just a thought experiment and an irrelevant question in 2020.

As for the rest, being a muslim, even a relatively religious one is not disqualifying from mainstream (French) society. But unfortunately being religiously muslim does tend to be heavily correlated to other beliefs that are disqualifying from mainstream society. Most muslims do not have said attitudes; but it is a percentage that is a lot larger than it should. Plus of course there is the huge issue of segregation where there are communities where you could easily live while speaking just broken French. There is a reason that media often puts fear about "no-go zones". Even when they are relatively safe, they are still a parallel society with little mixing with the rest of France.

I am actually not sure if France has this kind of area and France does not collect ethnic statatistics anyways, but think of a place like Rinkeby in Sweden, where 90% of the population is of immigrant descent. Though from what I've heard Seine-Sant Denis seems to be the equivalent to a place like that?
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