Is this the best racial classification possible?
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  Is this the best racial classification possible?
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Question: Is this the best racial classification possible?
#1
probably
 
#2
almost
 
#3
maybe not
 
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Total Voters: 44

Author Topic: Is this the best racial classification possible?  (Read 2374 times)
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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« on: October 16, 2020, 10:02:47 AM »
« edited: October 16, 2020, 10:06:23 AM by 🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸 »



I like how Circassian, a Caucasian ethnic group, are classified as White but not Caucasian.
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Penn_Quaker_Girl
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 10:05:14 AM »

We generally refer to ourselves as "south-Asian" (or at least that's what my parents say, anyway) to make the distinction ourselves and east-Asians.  But technically yes, us Indians are Asian / Asian-American. 
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Person Man
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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 10:23:50 AM »

I like the British classification system better.
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 10:27:48 AM »

We love our Somalis!
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Bootes Void
iamaganster123
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 10:38:01 AM »

they need to stop with this stupid racial classification stuff, its fine the way it is right now.
no need to change
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2020, 10:43:13 AM »

Hispanic is not a race. It will never be a race. It is an ethnicity, a culture.
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Roronoa D. Law
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2020, 12:43:16 PM »

You cannot divide 600+ ethnic groups into 5 groups based on color. Let me still a phrase from an old friend of mine. "White was a creation by the Anglos to steal all the other cultures in Europe because they didn't have one of their own."
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2020, 12:49:04 PM »

These racists continue to leave out Olive unsurprisingly.
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Person Man
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2020, 12:53:44 PM »

These racists continue to leave out Olive unsurprisingly.

I prefer Beige.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2020, 12:58:49 PM »

The fact that it's an accepted truism in America--even among anti-racists!--that "race" is an actual thing at all, and that racial essentialism is today seen in some circles as a left-wing position, horrifies all my non-American friends.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 01:31:32 PM »

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 02:30:17 PM »

No, putting a bunch of brown people in a "white" category makes no sense
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 02:31:41 PM »

These racists continue to leave out Olive unsurprisingly.

You wanna go back to that period of the 19th century when Sicilian immigrants were classified as "colored"?
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Kamala’s side hoe
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 02:52:33 PM »

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.


Tbh it’s hard to draw a line between “white passing” MENA and “non white passing” MENA. I honestly think most MENA people look similar enough to Europeans (particularly Italians and Jews) and White Latinos to physically pass as white. They aren’t considered white due to cultural differences.
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Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
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« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2020, 02:56:54 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2020, 03:10:11 PM by Sprouts Farmers Market ✘ »

These racists continue to leave out Olive unsurprisingly.

You wanna go back to that period of the 19th century when Sicilian immigrants were classified as "colored"?

Why not? Most people seem to think more than half my family is anyway. (As a reverse octoroon who religiously uses skin whitener, I tend to avoid this problem.)
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 03:00:40 PM »

These racists continue to leave out Olive unsurprisingly.

You wanna go back to that period of the 19th century when Sicilian immigrants were classified as "colored"?

Why not? Most people seem to think more than half my family is anyway.

Uhm, if that's the case I don't know what to say.
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Dr. Arch
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 03:03:22 PM »

Go with ethnicity/ancestry and drop race altogether. Simple.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2020, 03:25:59 PM »

Race as a social and cultural construct and race as a genetic biological classification are very different, and it's probably not a good idea to hyper-focus on how exactly to classify everybody into groups.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2020, 05:39:40 PM »

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.


Tbh it’s hard to draw a line between “white passing” MENA and “non white passing” MENA. I honestly think most MENA people look similar enough to Europeans (particularly Italians and Jews) and White Latinos to physically pass as white. They aren’t considered white due to cultural differences.
The average MENA person looks similar to Mohammed bin Salman. Pretty much no one would mistake MBS as being "white" - not even "Italian".

Also, there are many MENA people who are considered to be "Black" - at least by Western standards . For example, the Dutch model Imaan Hammam is of Egyptian & Moroccan ancestry but she would be considered to be a Black woman in the Western world and by most people walking past her on the street. She also considers herself to be a Black woman.

Furthermore, "A 2015 Census Bureau study found that, when given a survey with a “Middle Eastern and North African” (MENA) option, individuals from those regions who identified as white dropped from 85.5 percent to 20 percent. The study also concluded that including the MENA category in the census would be “optimal” and would improve the accuracy of the national head count for the community."
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Bismarck
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2020, 06:35:30 PM »

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.


Tbh it’s hard to draw a line between “white passing” MENA and “non white passing” MENA. I honestly think most MENA people look similar enough to Europeans (particularly Italians and Jews) and White Latinos to physically pass as white. They aren’t considered white due to cultural differences.
The average MENA person looks similar to Mohammed bin Salman. Pretty much no one would mistake MBS as being "white" - not even "Italian".

Also, there are many MENA people who are considered to be "Black" - at least by Western standards . For example, the Dutch model Imaan Hammam is of Egyptian & Moroccan ancestry but she would be considered to be a Black woman in the Western world and by most people walking past her on the street. She also considers herself to be a Black woman.

Furthermore, "A 2015 Census Bureau study found that, when given a survey with a “Middle Eastern and North African” (MENA) option, individuals from those regions who identified as white dropped from 85.5 percent to 20 percent. The study also concluded that including the MENA category in the census would be “optimal” and would improve the accuracy of the national head count for the community."

I think people like Mark Esper or Justin Amash look white. Or Darrel Issa
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2020, 06:43:39 PM »

These are all nationalities, not ethnicities—let alone races. "Israeli" is certainly not an ethnic group, though Jews and Arabs are, who comprise the vast majority of Israel's population. In Syria, for example, you have the Arabs, the Kurds, the Druze, the Turkmen, the Circassians, the Greeks and Ossetians, Armenians, Maronites, Yezidees, etc. To lump these religious and ethnic groups together as "Syrian" and therefore "white" is, well... disingenuous to say the least
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2020, 07:00:29 PM »

There are only two races, liberals.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
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« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2020, 07:02:37 PM »
« Edited: October 16, 2020, 08:19:32 PM by ηєω ƒяσηтιєя »

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.


Tbh it’s hard to draw a line between “white passing” MENA and “non white passing” MENA. I honestly think most MENA people look similar enough to Europeans (particularly Italians and Jews) and White Latinos to physically pass as white. They aren’t considered white due to cultural differences.
The average MENA person looks similar to Mohammed bin Salman. Pretty much no one would mistake MBS as being "white" - not even "Italian".

Also, there are many MENA people who are considered to be "Black" - at least by Western standards . For example, the Dutch model Imaan Hammam is of Egyptian & Moroccan ancestry but she would be considered to be a Black woman in the Western world and by most people walking past her on the street. She also considers herself to be a Black woman.

Furthermore, "A 2015 Census Bureau study found that, when given a survey with a “Middle Eastern and North African” (MENA) option, individuals from those regions who identified as white dropped from 85.5 percent to 20 percent. The study also concluded that including the MENA category in the census would be “optimal” and would improve the accuracy of the national head count for the community."

I think people like Mark Esper or Justin Amash look white. Or Darrel Issa
Ok, many things:

1) I already said that there are some MENA people who are white or white-passing.

2) The average MENA person does NOT look like those 3 people you mentioned.

3) Mark Esper is only half MENA (Lebanese father). His mother is of Irish ancestry.

4) Darrell Issa is only half MENA (Lebanese father). His mother is of German & Czech ancestry.

5) Most MENA people do not typically identify themselves as being "White" (especially younger ones).

6) There are people of different backgrounds who are "white-passing". For example, the rapper Logic is "white-passing" despite having a Black father. The late actor Cameron Boyce was "white-passing" despite having a Black father.


At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific.
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Meclazine for Israel
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« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2020, 08:20:59 PM »

We generally refer to ourselves as "south-Asian" (or at least that's what my parents say, anyway) to make the distinction ourselves and east-Asians.  But technically yes, us Indians are Asian / Asian-American. 

Your classification is:

2020 Most Admired and Eligible Bachelorette on Atlas Forums
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Kamala’s side hoe
khuzifenq
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« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2020, 08:36:16 PM »


Cat people and dog people.

Just like what should have happened on the Census, MENA (Middle East & North Africa) should be a separate category from "White". Somalis should definitely NOT be in the "White" category lol - by any metric.

Both socially & culturally, people from the Middle East & North Africa are not viewed as being "White" (unless they are "white-passing"). Also, there are "white-passing" people from non-MENA backgrounds.

Osama bin Laden was definitely not viewed as being a "white guy" but according to this classification and the US census he would be. At the end of the day, race is arbitrary and NOT scientific. However, the concept of race has become an indelible part of society - especially in the United States.


Tbh it’s hard to draw a line between “white passing” MENA and “non white passing” MENA. I honestly think most MENA people look similar enough to Europeans (particularly Italians and Jews) and White Latinos to physically pass as white. They aren’t considered white due to cultural differences.
The average MENA person looks similar to Mohammed bin Salman. Pretty much no one would mistake MBS as being "white" - not even "Italian".

Also, there are many MENA people who are considered to be "Black" - at least by Western standards . For example, the Dutch model Imaan Hammam is of Egyptian & Moroccan ancestry but she would be considered to be a Black woman in the Western world and by most people walking past her on the street. She also considers herself to be a Black woman.

Furthermore, "A 2015 Census Bureau study found that, when given a survey with a “Middle Eastern and North African” (MENA) option, individuals from those regions who identified as white dropped from 85.5 percent to 20 percent. The study also concluded that including the MENA category in the census would be “optimal” and would improve the accuracy of the national head count for the community."

Adding onto Bismarck’s point- Bashar al-Assad (Syrian), Cenk Uygur (Turkish), and Ralph Nader (Lebanese and/or Palestinian) also look pretty “white” to me. But yeah, younger and more recent MENA diasporans don’t really self-identify as white.
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