COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron
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  COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron
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Author Topic: COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron  (Read 526424 times)
compucomp
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« Reply #5575 on: July 30, 2021, 01:43:02 PM »

In other words: The CDC’s reversa was not based on nothing like so many arrogant posters have been saying. If you want to be mad, be mad at the virus itself, don’t shoot the messenger for simply doing their job.

They lost all credibility when they lifted the mask guidance and suggested an honor system for unvaccinated in the first place as that was a purely political decision, so personally I'm going to be highly skeptical of anything that follows. And I remain skeptical of the change in guidance here for that reason--It's all about political pressure.

I change my mind when we have either enforced mask mandates for the unvaccinated, or vaccinate mandates.

To you, the CDC lost all credibility in May when they said vaccinated don't need to wear masks? The guidance change that everyone here agreed is tantamount to recommending mask mandates be rescinded, because there is no practical way to enforce a vaccination-dependent mask mandate? So you're in favor of mask mandates now? What the hell have you been arguing for the last week then?
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #5576 on: July 30, 2021, 02:38:46 PM »

The Delta variant is much more prolific. i can imagine the virus bouncing off anything -- clothing, eyeglasses, watches, eyeglasses, jewelry, hair, bare flesh... this variant is a nightmare, and people who have failed to get inoculated  are the problem.

If you think "delta" is bad, then wait till you hear of some strain that mutates from it that gets a Greek letter lower in the Hellenic alphabet

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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #5577 on: July 30, 2021, 03:23:08 PM »



The trend is gaining steam.
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Hammy
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« Reply #5578 on: July 30, 2021, 04:00:53 PM »
« Edited: July 30, 2021, 04:05:59 PM by Hammy »

To you, the CDC lost all credibility in May when they said vaccinated don't need to wear masks? The guidance change that everyone here agreed is tantamount to recommending mask mandates be rescinded, because there is no practical way to enforce a vaccination-dependent mask mandate? So you're in favor of mask mandates now? What the hell have you been arguing for the last week then?


They lost all credibility when they lifted the mask guidance and suggested an honor system for unvaccinated in the first place as that was a purely political decision

Learn to read, context is important. A rushed lifting of guidance was done with little notice--many in the various agencies had less than 24h notice. Whether the decision was right or wrong down the road doesn't matter--it was made with too little haste to have taken anything beyond public opinion into account. And the honor system suggestion treated the unvaccinated as if they were upstanding citizens who would never lie about their status rather than the selfish delusional hypocrites that they are. The current guidance is an overcorrection. This will also be my last reply on this argument in this thread as I don't wish to derail it further.




The trend is gaining steam.

October 4 is an awful long time given how easily available vaccines are and how much more these people can spread it in the meantime.
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YE
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« Reply #5579 on: July 30, 2021, 04:09:40 PM »

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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #5580 on: July 30, 2021, 04:13:43 PM »

Disney too.  The dam against vaccine requirements is breaking (thankfully).

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compucomp
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« Reply #5581 on: July 30, 2021, 04:19:04 PM »

To you, the CDC lost all credibility in May when they said vaccinated don't need to wear masks? The guidance change that everyone here agreed is tantamount to recommending mask mandates be rescinded, because there is no practical way to enforce a vaccination-dependent mask mandate? So you're in favor of mask mandates now? What the hell have you been arguing for the last week then?


They lost all credibility when they lifted the mask guidance and suggested an honor system for unvaccinated in the first place as that was a purely political decision

Learn to read, context is important. A rushed lifting of guidance was done with little notice--many in the various agencies had less than 24h notice. Whether the decision was right or wrong down the road doesn't matter--it was made with too little haste to have taken anything beyond public opinion into account. And the honor system suggestion treated the unvaccinated as if they were upstanding citizens who would never lie about their status rather than the selfish delusional hypocrites that they are. The current guidance is an overcorrection. This will also be my last reply on this argument in this thread as I don't wish to derail it further.

Go back to the thread on this forum about the May guidance; whether the poster was in favor or against the guidance, all agreed that there would be mask mandates for everyone or mask mandates for no one. How the hell can you consider the May guidance to be a bad and completely political decision yet oppose mask mandates?  If you're seriously arguing for a vaccine-dependent mask mandate, then you're arguing for a completely artificial construction that simply doesn't exist in the real world, unserious to the point of trolling.
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Lief 🗽
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« Reply #5582 on: July 30, 2021, 04:39:00 PM »
« Edited: July 30, 2021, 04:44:39 PM by Lief 🐋 »

One positive of this pandemic is that it may finally be opening people’s eyes to how pernicious and corrupt public sector unions really are. Disgusting people.
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Horus
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« Reply #5583 on: July 30, 2021, 04:42:39 PM »

One positive of this epidemic is that it may finally be opening people’s eyes to how pernicious and corrupt public sector unions really are. Disgusting people.


If you work in a hospital, police station, nursing home or school, you should not be able to unionize. The pandemic has shown unions to be antiquated and nothing but unnecessary red tape.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #5584 on: July 30, 2021, 05:19:46 PM »

One positive of this epidemic is that it may finally be opening people’s eyes to how pernicious and corrupt public sector unions really are. Disgusting people.


If you work in a hospital, police station, nursing home or school, you should not be able to unionize. The pandemic has shown unions to be antiquated and nothing but unnecessary red tape.
No.
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Hammy
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« Reply #5585 on: July 30, 2021, 05:29:45 PM »

One positive of this epidemic is that it may finally be opening people’s eyes to how pernicious and corrupt public sector unions really are. Disgusting people.


If you work in a hospital, police station, nursing home or school, you should not be able to unionize. The pandemic has shown unions to be antiquated and nothing but unnecessary red tape.

It's San Francisco--I wouldn't use them as the basis to judge all public sector unions.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #5586 on: July 30, 2021, 05:38:49 PM »

Disney mandates vaccines
But only for non union employees
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/30/disney-tells-salaried-and-non-union-employees-they-must-be-vaccinated.html
Ok got it
BLM protests and unions make sure you are safe from COVID.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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« Reply #5587 on: July 30, 2021, 05:39:59 PM »

CDC Scaled Back Hunt for Breakthrough Cases Just as the Delta Variant Grew​​​​​​

Bloomberg identified more than 100,000 vaccine breakthroughs


Quote
The U.S. agency leading the fight against Covid-19 gave up a crucial surveillance tool tracking the effectiveness of vaccines just as a troublesome new variant of the virus was emerging. While the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped comprehensively tracking what are known as vaccine breakthrough cases in May, the consequences of that choice are only now beginning to show.

...

But in the months since, the number of vaccine breakthrough cases has grown, as has the risk that they present. And while the CDC has stopped tracking such cases, many states have not. Bloomberg gathered data from 35 states and identified 111,748 vaccine breakthrough cases through the end of July, more than 10 times the CDC’s end-of-April tally.

...

The CDC said when it announced the change in May that it would continue to collect data on breakthrough cases if the infections resulted in hospitalization or death — a rare occurrence, since vaccines provide significant protection. The decision to stop tracking non-severe cases was made to “help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance,” the agency says on its website.

But that decision to follow not track mild or asymptomatic cases is now being questioned, including by state officials dealing with the virus on the front lines.

...

“When I saw CDC was going to stop tracking vaccinated people who get infected, my heart sank,” said Charity Dean, who helped lead California’s response to Covid as the state health department’s assistant director. “We lost our shot at being able to characterize how this variant is moving through the population and how new variants might emerge.”

...

“The more data you have, the better decisions you can make. So why would they knowingly turn away data which historically has been really important to have?” said Michael Kinch, director of the Center for Research Innovation in Business at Washington University in St. Louis. “For an administration that said they’ll be driven by the science, it makes no scientific sense.”

It seems by this point pretty clear that this was a mistake. You can't understand what you don't measure because you have chosen not to collect data on it.
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Matty
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« Reply #5588 on: July 30, 2021, 05:44:10 PM »

Wow

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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #5589 on: July 30, 2021, 06:04:17 PM »

Unfortunately, I expect some restrictions/requirements, and maybe some lockdowns (in large gatherings, like concerts and sport games) to return.
It's all-ready starting.
Stay safe everyone.
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Person Man
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« Reply #5590 on: July 30, 2021, 06:05:44 PM »

At what point do we just say that we've done all that we could if we can never truly get transmission to an "acceptable" level?

I really do hope that there are some sort of  consequences for all these people who don't want us to get through this pandemic.
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crazy jimmie
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« Reply #5591 on: July 30, 2021, 06:10:06 PM »
« Edited: July 30, 2021, 06:17:43 PM by jimmie »

Unfortunately, I expect some restrictions/requirements, and maybe some lockdowns (in large gatherings, like concerts and sportut a games) to return.
It's all-ready starting.
Stay safe everyone.

Will not happen in Virginia. lol

In fact I expect that Virginia may be the only Biden state with a Democratic Governor without any covid restrictions this fall.
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soundchaser
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« Reply #5592 on: July 30, 2021, 06:55:48 PM »

Wow



Well, frankly, f*** this.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
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« Reply #5593 on: July 30, 2021, 07:00:09 PM »

At what point do we just say that we've done all that we could if we can never truly get transmission to an "acceptable" level?

The answer to that is literally, never.

We don't stop vaccinating children against measles/mumps/polio/etc just because those have been brought basically under control (except for recent anti-vaxxer flareups), and we certainly wouldn't if transmission were higher.

COVID has also spread into a lot of wild (and domesticated) animal species. 2 New articles today about COVID in deer:

https://wtvbam.com/2021/07/30/usda-estimates-covid-19-exposure-to-over-50-of-michigans-deer-population/

and also COVID found in NYC sewers that seems to be from dogs and rats (with variants that may be antibody resistant for humans):

https://www.ibtimes.com/4-new-covid-19-variants-found-nyc-sewers-likely-antibody-resistant-3262705

If COVID can cross over and infect those animals in the first place, it can then evolve different variants in those animals, some of which may then subsequently cross back over into humans. Statistically, one would hope that most such variants will probably be harmless, but we can't assume that will always be the case.

This will need to be monitored closely, basically forever, no matter what else happens with the virus among humans, and we will need to be well prepared for the possibility of zoonosis or transmission back over to humans of variants that might be pretty severe, transmissable, and/or resistant to our existing defenses.

That is also a more general problem, the same thing could have happened with e.g. bird flu going back many years. We need much more global public health funding to deal with this stuff (it is much cheaper to fund global health prevention to avoid future pandemics than to wait for pandemics), and also really need to cut way down on situations that make zoonosis of potentially very nasty viruses more likely (e.g. chickens housed all closely together in unsanitary conditions).
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #5594 on: July 30, 2021, 07:11:25 PM »


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roxas11
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« Reply #5595 on: July 30, 2021, 07:19:16 PM »
« Edited: July 30, 2021, 07:31:07 PM by roxas11 »

Wow



I don't see what is so shocking or even surprising about this statement

even if biden himself does nothing Americans will still be facing more Covid restrictions simply because big companies are now starting to mandate the vaccines and some are even brining back mask mandates

Again, even if Biden himself does not lift a finger we will still see a rise in Covid restrictions

Also, Biden white house clearly said today that "We are not going to head towards a lockdown."Our goal is to make sure that we are not headed towards that and that is not going to be the direction that we take, because we have the tools to prevent that. So any Covid restrictions Biden is talking about will most likely be far more limited in scope since He knows full well that Republican governors in red states will never go along with another lockdown
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Roll Roons
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« Reply #5596 on: July 30, 2021, 07:50:26 PM »
« Edited: July 30, 2021, 07:56:49 PM by Roll Roons »



My favorite four words to describe the media prove to be fitting once again.

Their behavior during COVID plays a big part in why I hate them so much. 
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emailking
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« Reply #5597 on: July 30, 2021, 08:08:13 PM »



My favorite four words to describe the media prove to be fitting once again.

Their behavior during COVID plays a big part in why I hate them so much. 

As far as I can tell, the NYT tweet is correct. The Slide Presentation does say that. Slide 16 title is:

"Delta variant vaccine breakthrough cases may be as transmissible as unvaccinated cases"
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Hammy
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« Reply #5598 on: July 30, 2021, 08:09:58 PM »



My favorite four words to describe the media prove to be fitting once again.

Their behavior during COVID plays a big part in why I hate them so much. 

I had to go digging through the CDC report for that reason to get a grasp on what's actually going on--the way some media is talking about it almost sounds like they're treating the vaccines as useless.
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crazy jimmie
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« Reply #5599 on: July 30, 2021, 08:14:16 PM »

Coronaviruses can not

can not

CAN NOT

mutate  so fast that vaccines would be useless within a year.
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