COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[emailking]

Some really good news is that it now looks like it's pretty likely that we are past the peak in deaths, which was last week. On the down side, the deaths are still very high and may be for several more weeks.

[compucomp]

A newly released study from the California Department of Public Health shows that consistently wearing a mask does protect the wearer. Study was conducted prior to Omicron. Given that most masks are better at protecting others from the wearer than protecting the wearer from others this is a good data point in favor of mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

[Bandit3 the Worker]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

[Hammy]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

[Hammy]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

[Hammy]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

Worldometer says the U.S. is worse.

[Hammy]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

Worldometer says the U.S. is worse.

Yes, the current total cumulative CFR is worse, because Sweden has a higher vaccination rate and smaller population (so far less unvaccinated.) In fact, America's unvaccinated population is 4x the total population of Sweden.

However, early in the pandemic Sweden was significantly higher as a result of their zero restriction policy.

[MT Treasurer]

Since posters here seem to be supporting the Canadian "trucker protest", have a look at yet more extremists taking part:

*snip*

So in this protest, I've now seen flags of
-Nazi Germany
-CSA
-Three Percenters
-QAnon

These are the folks you are siding with now? Are they "very fine people" like Trump used to say? Have you gone crazy? Have COVID restrictions warped your minds to the point that you'll accept any ally in your fight against them?

No offense, computocomp, but this forum contains some of the demographics least susceptible to cheap rhetorical tricks (e.g. excessively emotional rhetoric, loaded questions, sweeping generalizations, distractions from the issue at hand, subtle threats which pit a powerful/'reasonable' collective against the powerless 'outlier'/'irrational' individual) and blatant propaganda, so you’re really wasting your time if you’re going down this path (similarly, the people browsing this forum/thread are unlikely to have their minds changed by this). I think you should stick to statistics and studies, which to the audience you intend to reach can have a far more powerful propagandistic effect (if presented in an appropriate manner) than such tabloid talking points, which one might say work more on the less 'intellectual' and more shallow members of society whose self-esteem is contingent on societal status and approval by the masses. I’m not denying that the approach you opted for in your post isn’t effective on the average member of society/media consumer who fears repercussions from society (and can’t hide behind a random avatar on an obscure online forum), it’s just not going to work on a semi-anonymous, hyper-involved, highly political, predominantly male and young audience like this.

Really telling (one might say revealing) that you would invoke the Canadian trucker protest and the Charlottesville events given that you proclaim to be hyper-focused on the sober presentation of science and purport to have no agenda in this. But good luck anyway — I (and I mean this sincerely) always learn a lot from your posts.

[Donerail]

A newly released study from the California Department of Public Health shows that consistently wearing a mask does protect the wearer. Study was conducted prior to Omicron. Given that most masks are better at protecting others from the wearer than protecting the wearer from others this is a good data point in favor of mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

Neat example of how the game works — you have the big flashy numbers showing how MASKS WORK and then you zoom in on the tiny footnote that says "not statistically significant." What is going on at the CDC??

[FrancoAgo]

A newly released study from the California Department of Public Health shows that consistently wearing a mask does protect the wearer. Study was conducted prior to Omicron. Given that most masks are better at protecting others from the wearer than protecting the wearer from others this is a good data point in favor of mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

Neat example of how the game works — you have the big flashy numbers showing how MASKS WORK and then you zoom in on the tiny footnote that says "not statistically significant." What is going on at the CDC??

the not statistically significant is relative to the cloth mask numbers, probably the cloth mask examples are too low

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

Why would masks have an effect on CFR?  Mask should prevent infection, not death conditional on infection.  In the early stages of the pandemic, CFR was most likely primarily a function of testing capacity, and secondarily population demographics.

[Crumpets]

For some good news, here's an updated map of the 14-day trend in case numbers by state. 10% increments starting at zero (so, 30% = 1-9% growth/decrease, 40% = 10-19% growth/decrease, etc.).

That was Thursday, this is today:

[Leohendo9]

cant believe we are still having these discussions.

[compucomp]

Since posters here seem to be supporting the Canadian "trucker protest", have a look at yet more extremists taking part:

*snip*

So in this protest, I've now seen flags of
-Nazi Germany
-CSA
-Three Percenters
-QAnon

These are the folks you are siding with now? Are they "very fine people" like Trump used to say? Have you gone crazy? Have COVID restrictions warped your minds to the point that you'll accept any ally in your fight against them?

No offense, computocomp, but this forum contains some of the demographics least susceptible to cheap rhetorical tricks (e.g. excessively emotional rhetoric, loaded questions, sweeping generalizations, distractions from the issue at hand, subtle threats which pit a powerful/'reasonable' collective against the powerless 'outlier'/'irrational' individual) and blatant propaganda, so you’re really wasting your time if you’re going down this path (similarly, the people browsing this forum/thread are unlikely to have their minds changed by this). I think you should stick to statistics and studies, which to the audience you intend to reach can have a far more powerful propagandistic effect (if presented in an appropriate manner) than such tabloid talking points, which one might say work more on the less 'intellectual' and more shallow members of society whose self-esteem is contingent on societal status and approval by the masses. I’m not denying that the approach you opted for in your post isn’t effective on the average member of society/media consumer who fears repercussions from society (and can’t hide behind a random avatar on an obscure online forum), it’s just not going to work on a semi-anonymous, hyper-involved, highly political, predominantly male and young audience like this.

Really telling (one might say revealing) that you would invoke the Canadian trucker protest and the Charlottesville events given that you proclaim to be hyper-focused on the sober presentation of science and purport to have no agenda in this. But good luck anyway — I (and I mean this sincerely) always learn a lot from your posts.

I definitely am biased and have an agenda with regard to the Canadian trucker protest, I strongly oppose it and want to discredit it. The reason that I posted the photos of the flags was that I felt the people posting in favor of the event was successfully manipulating the perception here of the event to portray it as it is a populist protest for freedom with legitimate grievances. My point with the photos instead advance the perception that while it may have some legitimate grievances, it is actually a right-wing protest with extremist elements, and these extremist elements are the same ones that the vast majority of this forum strongly disapproves, even calling them traitors and for the FBI to crack down on them in the case of 3% and QAnon. I know I'm not going to sway the people posting in favor, they feel so strongly against COVID restrictions that they've made their peace with having far-right nutjobs in their ranks. But I don't think this is the case of the average forum reader, who while he may be fed up with COVID and dislike wearing masks and such, would be uncomfortable supporting a right-wing protest with extremists.

I might be right or wrong, but this shift is definitely happening in Canada, where the media conversation abruptly shifted from the truckers' grievances to the far-right groups, and Trudeau is now openly considering how to kick the truckers out by force. I wasn't posting on this subforum in summer 2020 but I imagine something similar happened here with CHAZ, where support was initially high but melted away as it became clear that anarchists were running the show and there was lawlessness on the ground.

[Hammy]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

Why would masks have an effect on CFR?  Mask should prevent infection, not death conditional on infection.  In the early stages of the pandemic, CFR was most likely primarily a function of testing capacity, and secondarily population demographics.

VIRAL LOAD. Even cloth masks can cut down on that by 30% and surgical by 50%. But when you have no vaccine, and everybody running around spreading the virus, you're giving everyone a full dose of it.

And the fact remains that after mandates were instituted in the US, mortality rates went down, no matter what argument you want to make about testing capacity. A change of 7% to 3% compared to one that remained around 10% is incontrovertible proof that Sweden had the wrong plan early in the pandemic.

[Zohranism is OUR future]

If only we still had the Fairness Doctrine, lockdowns and mask mandates almost certainly never would have happened.

Mask mandates were necessary before vaccines, and if you don't think so, then you're just not living in reality.

Then how did Sweden get by without it?

With an absurdly high mortality rate.

But the mortality rate in the U.S. is much worse.

Sweden's CFR was 10%. US was 7% before mandates went into effect, and 2-3% after.

Why would masks have an effect on CFR?  Mask should prevent infection, not death conditional on infection.  In the early stages of the pandemic, CFR was most likely primarily a function of testing capacity, and secondarily population demographics.

VIRAL LOAD. Even cloth masks can cut down on that by 30% and surgical by 50%. But when you have no vaccine, and everybody running around spreading the virus, you're giving everyone a full dose of it.

And the fact remains that after mandates were instituted in the US, mortality rates went down, no matter what argument you want to make about testing capacity. A change of 7% to 3% compared to one that remained around 10% is incontrovertible proof that Sweden had the wrong plan early in the pandemic.

You’re literally the only sane person on here oh my gosh.

[Trump Is A Maoist]

cant believe we are still having these discussions.

These discussions will be happening for the next 40+ years, long after the pandemic, in the same way that people discuss the morality, pros, cons, good strategies and blunders of the Vietnam War to this day. Get used to it.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

This thread (and Twitter replies) sometimes feels like a different planet.  Masks are uncommon enough here that I do a double-take on the rare occasion I see one.  The grocery store is the only place you see them, and it's even a minority there.  Apart from a vague understanding of things being different elsewhere, the Delta and- especially- Omicron waves have felt culturally a lot like the 2009 swine flu.  You know that people are getting sick, but probably don't know anyone who has been seriously ill*, and don't think too much about it.

*I'll be honest- I don't know a single person who has had anything worse than the seasonal flu from any variant of covid.

[emailking]

There's been 900,000 deaths. If you know 350 Americans there's a good chance you know someone who died. I do!

[Pericles]

There's been 900,000 deaths. If you know 350 Americans there's a good chance you know someone who died. I do!

Meanwhile I don't know anyone living in New Zealand who has got Covid. I have been worried about my family in Europe though.

[Calthrina950]

This thread (and Twitter replies) sometimes feels like a different planet.  Masks are uncommon enough here that I do a double-take on the rare occasion I see one.  The grocery store is the only place you see them, and it's even a minority there.  Apart from a vague understanding of things being different elsewhere, the Delta and- especially- Omicron waves have felt culturally a lot like the 2009 swine flu.  You know that people are getting sick, but probably don't know anyone who has been seriously ill*, and don't think too much about it.

*I'll be honest- I don't know a single person who has had anything worse than the seasonal flu from any variant of covid.

This is certainly not my experience, as I've lost one of my parents to this virus. And as I've said before, roughly half the people where I live continue to mask up in public.

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/kelleykga/status/1490074005541466113

https://twitter.com/KelleyKga/status/1490108637058150403#m

These photos are dystopian: The charismatic leader greeting the faceless masses!

I don't know how politicians who do this can live with themselves. Maybe it's just a lack of self-awareness, but even that says a great deal about them, i.e. that special treatment is such an entitlement to be unworthy of notice.

Let me emphasize that these were photo-ops. This isn't just an incidental capture of a day in the life. They reflect how her campaign wants her to be portrayed.

She deleted the tweet, so I'm guessing this is not how her campaign wants her portrayed. Bad look though, to say the least.