Should President Biden crack down on the Proud Boys?

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

oh yeah. Declare them a terrorist organization and then let the mass arrests begin!

[Big Abraham]

No. See my previous response here:

Who cares about this culture war nonsense.

A way to reasonably frame this election would be the way we do with most incumbent presidents: Has Trump delivered on his campaign pledges, or hasn't he? Has he "drained the swamp", pursued an "America first" foreign policy, brought back manufacturing jobs, etc.?

Instead, we're talking about the loser "Proud Boys", who as of 2018 had a whopping 160 members, as though this is a group worthy of national discussion? Give me a break, please

Declaring the "Proud Boys" a terrorist organisation is about as stupid, if not more stupid, than labelling Antifa one

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

[DrScholl]

It really depends on what they do. If they escalate into criminal activities then they should be put on a watch list. Way back in 2009 DHS under Obama put out a report saying that right-wing extremism could be a threat, yet conservative media spun that report as an attack on conservatives as a whole. Trump has drawn extremists out of the wood work and they are going to be very dangerous if he loses.

[Ferguson97]

Yes, they’re domestic terrorists

[pbrower2a]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

They really are terrorists, as were some of the anarchists and Communists of a century ago.
They seem highly organized, unlike the anarchists and Communists, which makes a huge difference.

[Crumpets]

Generally, yes, he should crack down on white supremacist militia groups and things like far-right infiltration of the military and police departments. However, there should be no official designation for domestic terrorist organizations, as then we open the door to things like drone strikes on US citizens in US territory. That would be bad.

[Badger]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

What a grossly and typically dishonest and ahistorical analysis.

In reality, they are a dangerous organization. Abraham talks about a hundred sixty, but their numbers are swelling dramatically. Sound like any other far-right paramilitary group we know from history? Go out of our way, but don't shelter them from frost you can bring it into a crime

[Wakie77]

Follow the recommendation of the FBI

[afleitch]

Without anyone in any administration egging them on, they'll probably split and fall apart.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

What a grossly and typically dishonest and ahistorical analysis.

In reality, they are a dangerous organization. Abraham talks about a hundred sixty, but their numbers are swelling dramatically. Sound like any other far-right paramilitary group we know from history? Go out of our way, but don't shelter them from frost you can bring it into a crime

The violence from the far-left that the Palmer Raids responded to were very real and vastly more dangerous than anything seen from any Proud Boys.   When you talk about mass arrests of people who haven't been involved in any violence but merely for belonging to a branch of a loose organization that also involves a few people in other branches who have committed violence, the comparison is warranted.

[beaver2.0]

Yes and white nationalists in general as well as any other groups the FBI and relevant law enforcement deem dangerous.

[JGibson]

YES.

[Badger]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

What a grossly and typically dishonest and ahistorical analysis.

In reality, they are a dangerous organization. Abraham talks about a hundred sixty, but their numbers are swelling dramatically. Sound like any other far-right paramilitary group we know from history? Go out of our way, but don't shelter them from frost you can bring it into a crime

The violence from the far-left that the Palmer Raids responded to were very real and vastly more dangerous than anything seen from any Proud Boys.   When you talk about mass arrests of people who haven't been involved in any violence but merely for belonging to a branch of a loose organization that also involves a few people in other branches who have committed violence, the comparison is warranted.

Defending the Palmer Raids as a rebuttal to why the proud boys shouldn't be targeted as a violent extremist group. Wow.

Mike naso would chuckle at such a weak argument

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Sure, he can go after them aggressively, following the lead of his fellow northeast Pennsylvanian Mitchell Palmer.

What a grossly and typically dishonest and ahistorical analysis.

In reality, they are a dangerous organization. Abraham talks about a hundred sixty, but their numbers are swelling dramatically. Sound like any other far-right paramilitary group we know from history? Go out of our way, but don't shelter them from frost you can bring it into a crime

The violence from the far-left that the Palmer Raids responded to were very real and vastly more dangerous than anything seen from any Proud Boys.   When you talk about mass arrests of people who haven't been involved in any violence but merely for belonging to a branch of a loose organization that also involves a few people in other branches who have committed violence, the comparison is warranted.

Defending the Palmer Raids as a rebuttal to why the proud boys shouldn't be targeted as a violent extremist group. Wow.

Mike naso would chuckle at such a weak argument

how can I put this simply for you?   Just because a threat may be real doesn't mean it should be used as a ground for a far-reaching authoritarian response.

[Frodo]

The federal government should absolutely concentrate its efforts on white supremacists (Proud Boys included) since even the Homeland Security Department under Trump made clear that they are a far greater threat to American citizens than even Islamic jihadists:

DHS to label white supremacists as the 'most persistent and lethal threat' to the US: report

To those who keep croaking 'but what about Antifa?' I answer that since the feds didn't see them as worthy of even a mention, why spend time and resources going after them?  

[Yoda]

I mean, they are literally domestic terrorists, so yeh.

[25 Abril/Aprile Sempre!]

Without anyone in any administration egging them on, they'll probably split and fall apart.

I think this is the most likely outcome.

[Izzyeviel]

No. See my previous response here:

Who cares about this culture war nonsense.

A way to reasonably frame this election would be the way we do with most incumbent presidents: Has Trump delivered on his campaign pledges, or hasn't he? Has he "drained the swamp", pursued an "America first" foreign policy, brought back manufacturing jobs, etc.?

Instead, we're talking about the loser "Proud Boys", who as of 2018 had a whopping 160 members, as though this is a group worthy of national discussion? Give me a break, please

Declaring the "Proud Boys" a terrorist organisation is about as stupid, if not more stupid, than labelling Antifa one

They're just an example of one of the many pro-trump white-supremacist groups.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Yes, they’re domestic terrorists

If this is true, than the same holds for Black Lives Matter and whomever funds them.

If this is true, then the same holds for Antifa.

We don't go after people in America for "who they are".  We go after people in America (and one way of this is to label some people "domestic terrorists") for what they do.

There are lots of groups on the left and right that are garbage in one form or another.  To a significant degree, they get to be garbage under the First Amendment.  That's what actual Freedom looks like and sounds like in real life.  There is a good deal on the left and right alike that I would never agree with and would never advocate someone actually saying that they, nonetheless, have a legal right to say it.

President Biden (if that comes to pass, which I certainly hope it doesn't) should crack down on any group that engages in criminal activity.  He should label any group that systematically destroys public and private property, threatens the lives of ordinary citizens, actively attempts to take over police precincts and destroy police property and impact police ability to enforce laws and maintain public safety a domestic terrorist group and go after them under Federal Statutes.  That's fine.  If the Proud Boys actually meet that criteria, that's fine.

But there's no way anyone here can say the Proud Boys meet that criteria and deny that Black Lives Matter and Antifa meet that standard.  So if President Biden sees fit to do that, he will be applying Justice in an incredibly uneven matter if he fails to do the same regarding BLM and Antifa.  And let's face it:  The overwhelming majority of BLM and Antifa voters that are doing the rioting, looting, threatening, and intimidation that intend to vote or will vote will be BIDEN voters.  They're part of Joe Biden's base, whether he likes it or not.

Is this "derailing" a conversation?  Of course not; that's just deflection for those who are fine with one standard of law for the Proud Boys and another one for BLM and Antifa (whose actions they condone).  What to do regarding BLM and Antifa if one "goes after" the Proud Boys is an inevitable issue.  Such action against the Proud Boys (if it happens) will not happen in a vacuum.  It will happen in the context of recent waves of rioting, violence, and damage that were caused by BLM and Antifa.  Our President ought to apply the law fairly to all.  So if Joe Biden chooses to apply this standard to the Proud Boys, that's fine.  But there is no way he can do that without doing the same to Antifa and BLM and its many members that will have voted for him in the 2020 election.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix]

I absolutely support cracking on domestic terrorists who have killed thirty people this summer, and that's why President Trump should throw BLM leaders in jail.

[politics_king]

You end up opening pandora's box if you do that. Do I agree with Proud Boys, no. I don't find myself agreeing with the tactics of Antifa either. It's like a fetish hobby with these groups left and right. It's obnoxious and speaks to a much bigger issue in this country. Wealth disparity.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

You end up opening pandora's box if you do that. Do I agree with Proud Boys, no. I don't find myself agreeing with the tactics of Antifa either. It's like a fetish hobby with these groups left and right. It's obnoxious and speaks to a much bigger issue in this country. Wealth disparity.

pretty much, though I would say it speaks to a crisis of meaning and community.

[Wakie77]

You end up opening pandora's box if you do that. Do I agree with Proud Boys, no. I don't find myself agreeing with the tactics of Antifa either. It's like a fetish hobby with these groups left and right. It's obnoxious and speaks to a much bigger issue in this country. Wealth disparity.

Can we stop pretending that Antifa is an organization?  It is a collection of ideas.  Organizations have leaders.  The Proud Boys is an organization led by Gavin McInnes.  The PLO was an organization formerly led by Yasser Arafat and currently by Mahmoud Abbas.  Who is the leader of Antifa?

[Big Abraham]

You end up opening pandora's box if you do that. Do I agree with Proud Boys, no. I don't find myself agreeing with the tactics of Antifa either. It's like a fetish hobby with these groups left and right. It's obnoxious and speaks to a much bigger issue in this country. Wealth disparity.

Can we stop pretending that Antifa is an organization?  It is a collection of ideas.  Organizations have leaders.  The Proud Boys is an organization led by Gavin McInnes.  The PLO was an organization formerly led by Yasser Arafat and currently by Mahmoud Abbas.  Who is the leader of Antifa?

The "Proud Boys" are led by Enrique Tarrio; McInnes is not currently affiliated