Which communist country is more powerful
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  Which communist country is more powerful
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Poll
Question: More powerful country?
#1
China
 
#2
Cuba
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 49

Author Topic: Which communist country is more powerful  (Read 1462 times)
hangfan91
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« on: September 27, 2020, 03:09:29 PM »

China or Cuba?
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 03:11:50 PM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).
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PSOL
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 07:29:53 PM »

Both have ceased going on the path of Communism and Socialism since c. 1979 and 1991 for China and Cuba respectively. However, for the purposes of this poll, it’s China lol
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2020, 07:39:13 PM »

Cuba, because it cost Al Gore Florida and thus the presidency in 2000 thanks to the Elian Gonzalez controversy. That changed the course of history more significantly than China has since then. /s
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2020, 11:53:22 AM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".

North Korea is still orthodoxly communist and therefore Best Korea. Cuba is also communist but undergoing an awful "perestroika"-like transformation that will end with them abandoning communism. No idea on their take on Laos but I guess must be similar to the Vietnam one.

Everyone else, including the likes of Venezuela and what not, is no longer communist in any way shape or form.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
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« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2020, 11:57:40 AM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".

North Korea is still orthodoxly communist and therefore Best Korea. Cuba is also communist but undergoing an awful "perestroika"-like transformation that will end with them abandoning communism. No idea on their take on Laos but I guess must be similar to the Vietnam one.

Everyone else, including the likes of Venezuela and what not, is no longer communist in any way shape or form.

10 years ago I had a pair of Nike shoes that were made in Laos, so yeah, they are barely pretending to be anywhere near communism  in any real way
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SWE
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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 11:59:43 AM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".

North Korea is still orthodoxly communist and therefore Best Korea. Cuba is also communist but undergoing an awful "perestroika"-like transformation that will end with them abandoning communism. No idea on their take on Laos but I guess must be similar to the Vietnam one.

Everyone else, including the likes of Venezuela and what not, is no longer communist in any way shape or form.
Nah the hardcore tankie take is that all of those places are socialist and warrant "critical support" against US imperialism (meaning supporting uncritically)
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 12:48:25 PM »

China, they have control over e-commerce since 1990s as well as Japan, cell phones, sports memorabilia, cars, and Chinese cooking is bought from China to America, as well as tea
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
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« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 12:50:03 PM »

China, they have control over e-commerce since 1990s as well as Japan, cell phones, sports memorabilia, cars, and Chinese cooking is bought from China to America, as well as tea

...
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CrabCake
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« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 02:08:26 PM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".


more of a trotskyite take, no? (although they use the phrase "degenerated/deformed workers state") Tankies tend to just shill for the regimes regardless.
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 02:16:12 PM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".


more of a trotskyite take, no? (although they use the phrase "degenerated/deformed workers state") Tankies tend to just shill for the regimes regardless.

The evidence from whatever dregs of r/DankLeft manage to fall upwards onto Reddit's Home page supports this hypothesis.
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PSOL
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« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 02:21:12 PM »

Lmao

The only possible way you can answer Cuba is if you think China is not a communist country (but you still think Cuba is one).

From what I've seen from some hardline tankies in the internet, the general consensus seems to be that Vietnam and China are no longer communist but rather transitioned into "state capitalism".


more of a trotskyite take, no? (although they use the phrase "degenerated/deformed workers state") Tankies tend to just shill for the regimes regardless.
No, Trotskyists usually view the existing states which continue to officially embrace a ML framework as revisionist states, “state capitalist”, etc. ML’s, whether shilling or not, offer “critical support”.

Usually Maoists or more likely Hoxhaists are more genuine in the “critical” part than coping MLs or Dengists.

Of course Trotskyists that are based in the Third World or apart of that tendency usually offer critical support, but they don’t exactly call it that. See Leftvoice for examples of this.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2020, 04:40:57 PM »

China is not communist.  It is a corrupt authoritarian dictatorship that uses the veneer of communism to deflect concerns about its tyrannical government and to keep the people in line.  China was legitimately communist under Mao Zedong, which is why tens of millions of people died of starvation and genocide.
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2020, 04:50:33 PM »

Cuba is barely even a real country.  For 50% of its existence it was completely reliant on the Soviet Union, and for the other 50% it has been completely reliant on China.  Without daddy's money, Cuba falls apart.  They were briefly reliant on America (!) in the early 90s.

The same is true of North Korea -- completely reliant on China and has been throughout its existence.  And the same was true of the Khmer Rouge.  None of these communist states are self-sufficient because communism is an economic disaster and doesn't work at all.  If you don't have daddy's money, you completely fall apart and have to beg the United States for resources.  Even with daddy's money, you have to commit mass-murder and mass-imprisonment as state policy to maintain your power, and in the meantime everyone is starving and impoverished and all your people want to leave.

Has the United States ever considered it?  You know, Cuba has a great health care system.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2020, 03:16:31 AM »

Arguably Dengism isn't too different from Lenin's NEP, but people don't go around claiming that the USSR in the early 20s were fake commies.
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SWE
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« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM »

Arguably Dengism isn't too different from Lenin's NEP, but people don't go around claiming that the USSR in the early 20s were fake commies.

The NEP was intended to be a capitalistic reform by design so comparing that to Dengism kind of proves the point
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buritobr
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« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2020, 06:50:34 PM »

Even if you consider that China and Vietnam are not communist anymore, we have to remember that DPR Korea has more powerful weapons than Cuba. DPR Korea can destroy Seoul, Cuba cannot destroy Miami
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2020, 07:57:10 PM »

There is no such thing as a "communist country"
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Beet
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« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2020, 11:51:03 PM »

It's a mistake to say China isn't communist because it allows market forces to play a decisive role in the economy. First of all, ML is claimed to be a scientific theory, which means that policies that don't accord with facts should be discarded. The fact of the matter was, Maoism was a disaster (as McArthur pointed out) and Soviet central planning failed as well. The CPC "seeks truth from facts" which are that market forces have certain advantages in determining resource allocation.

This is claimed to be a ML approach because it is a scientific one. Now as to how it is different from capitalism, that is easy. In a communist system the communists control the "commanding heights" of the economy, as Lenin pointed out when he did the NEP. Similarly in China, the state controls the SOE, which are the commanding heights. Moreover, the CPC controls the political system. You would not have someone like Michael Bloomberg spending $100 million in Florida to potentially flip an election in China. Someone like him would be sent to jail, and actually could be sentenced to a long term for corruption. Billionaires are allowed to join the Party and give advice into policy yes, but at the end of the day they are not the ones in control nor do they have any real influence.
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SWE
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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2020, 09:40:00 AM »

First of all, ML is claimed to be a scientific theory,

Hence why it's such a deeply unserious ideology
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Santander
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« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2020, 12:16:10 PM »

Cuba (better food, more elite baseball prospects)
I've never heard someone seriously contend that Cuban food is good.
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Saruku
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2020, 01:08:58 PM »

If communism is defined as a state, then China isn't communist, and indeed no hitherto existing society has been (hence why it isn't really useful to classify it as a state). The better question to ask is whether or not the Communist Party of China is still committed to Marxism. The economic reforms don't necessarily prove that they aren't, and to say so is to misunderstand Marxism.
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buritobr
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2020, 04:30:15 PM »

We can say that China is communist even if the country has a strong private sector. There are still the 5 year plans, the state controls the total level of investment through the public works and the investment of the public enterprises, many CEOs of the private enterprises are members of the communist party
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