Hillary Clinton vs. John Kerry

[darklordoftech]

?

[Ferguson97]

I don't really know much about Kerry, and liked Hillary a lot.

[Big Abraham]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

[Xing]

I might've said Clinton four years ago, but definitely Kerry today, even though he's far from perfect.

[Alcibiades]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

We are talking about the same Senator Edwards here, aren’t we? You know, the one who cheated on his dying wife.

[darklordoftech]

I might've said Clinton four years ago, but definitely Kerry today, even though he's far from perfect.

What has changed with either of them in the past four years?

[Big Abraham]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

We are talking about the same Senator Edwards here, aren’t we? You know, the one who cheated on his dying wife.

Yep, and I'm talking about his actual policy positions, which are the only thing that matters

[Alben Barkley]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

We are talking about the same Senator Edwards here, aren’t we? You know, the one who cheated on his dying wife.

Yep, and I'm talking about his actual policy positions, which are the only thing that matters

Character does matter. It’s not everything, but it matters. Ability to lead matters. Etc. Saying policy positions are the ONLY things that matter is how many Trump supporters rationalize their votes for him. But the reality is a president with similar policy positions as Trump but was more stable and competent would be better, as being president is NOT all about policy/ideology. Just look at how this COVID crisis has been handled as a very big and very obvious example of how something not inherently political like a virus can be botched if the president is a moron/scumbag. A president with similar policy positions but more respect for democratic institutions also wouldn’t be threatening to undermine our elections, wouldn’t have already solicited help from foreign powers to do it, etc.

Also aren’t you the same one who was going on about how Biden has no integrity or some stupid s—t like that because he wouldn’t commit to a position on court packing? Yet Edwards is just fine? Ridiculous.

It’s not like Edwards was some super leftist anyway. Hell his healthcare plan was basically Obamacare. Certainly wasn’t Medicare for All. And he initially supported and voted for the Iraq War.

[Big Abraham]

Character does matter. It’s not everything, but it matters.

It matters only insofar as it relates to their policy positions, and therefore (even if they logically precede them), they are subordinate to said positions.

Ability to lead matters. Etc. Saying policy positions are the ONLY things that matter is how many Trump supporters rationalize their votes for him.

Sure, and if I were a conservative I would probably agree with that point of view, just as many "vote blue no matter who" Democrats do the same for their candidates. My opposition to Trump is based precisely on his policies, and not based on his character - however, for most Democrats and these inane "Never Trump" Republicans, it's the exact inverse

But the reality is a president with similar policy positions as Trump but was more stable and competent would be better, as being president is NOT all about policy/ideology.

Even if that were true, does competence really have anything to do with whether or not you cheated on your dying wife?

Just look at how this COVID crisis has been handled as a very big and very obvious example of how something not inherently political like a virus can be botched if the president is a moron/scumbag.

Trump completely botching the coronavirus pandemic stems, in large part, from his policies. In the 2016 primaries he publicly stated that vaccines were linked to autism; around the same time, he called global warming a Chinese hoax. Denying the basics of scientific consensus is part and parcel of Trump's ideology, not his "character"

Also, during the Flint water crisis, then-President Obama told the nation that Flint's water was fine, and then pretended to drink it on national television. Flint's water still has lead in it. Was Obama a more upstanding "character", with more charisma, decency, etc.? Yes, I think nearly everyone would agree with that. Policy for policy though, you'll find that even if the president isn't a moron, it really doesn't make a damn difference when it comes to handling a crisis

A president with similar policy positions but more respect for democratic institutions also wouldn’t be threatening to undermine our elections, wouldn’t have already solicited help from foreign powers to do it, etc.

He hasn't solicited help to foreign powers to become president; please retire your long-since-disproven 2017 talking points already

Also aren’t you the same one who was going on about how Biden has no integrity or some stupid s—t like that because he wouldn’t commit to a position on court packing? Yet Edwards is just fine? Ridiculous. It’s not like Edwards was some super leftist anyway. Hell his healthcare plan was basically Obamacare. Certainly wasn’t Medicare for All.

Edwards' plan was obviously not great, but he was the one more than any other who made health care the top issues in 2008, Also, health-care isn't the only position in the world. Edwards was better on poverty (one of his signature issues) and foreign policy than Kerry and both Clintons combined.

[Left Wing]

Kerry by a lot.

[Sumner 1868]

The Kerry coalition would have been a better political baseline than what we've seen since 2016.

[TDAS04]

HRC.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Rather have Kerry, a Hillary presidency would have energized the right even more than Trump energizes the left.

[Santander]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

We are talking about the same Senator Edwards here, aren’t we? You know, the one who cheated on his dying wife.

Yep, and I'm talking about his actual policy positions, which are the only thing that matters

How someone treats their so-called loved ones is a predictor for their behavior in office, including whether they can be trusted to deliver on their promises.

[S019]

Hillary Clinton

[😥]

Hillary Rodham Clinton, easily

[Alcibiades]

Owing to the presence of Senator Edwards, the '04 Kerry ticket was the better Dem ticket of the two

We are talking about the same Senator Edwards here, aren’t we? You know, the one who cheated on his dying wife.

Yep, and I'm talking about his actual policy positions, which are the only thing that matters

It was pretty clear that Edwards was a massive slimeball all round. His character does matter, and something like this indicates that he may not be able to govern compassionately, with dignity and without corruption.

[President Johnson]

John Forbes Kerry. Both are FFs though.

[dw93]

Kerry, but only slightly.

[Mr. Smith]

Kerry and it isn't even close.

[SWE]

Rather have Kerry, a Hillary presidency would have energized the right even more than Trump energizes the left.

Yeah, this is an angle a lot of people don't think about when speculating what a Hillary presidency would have been like. God, can you imagine the fallout if President Hillary Clinton instituted a stay at home order in response to the pandemic?

[Xing]

I might've said Clinton four years ago, but definitely Kerry today, even though he's far from perfect.

What has changed with either of them in the past four years?

Clinton blaming everyone but herself for her loss definitely hasn’t raised my opinion of her.