Which of the following would you consider to be theft?

[AGA]

For all of these, I've heard someone call it theft.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

only Looting stores.

[Ferguson97]

Only looting stores (sane)

[JA]

All of the above

[dead0man]

I get why private property can be considered theft, "you can't own the land man, the land is for every living thing".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why profit is theft, "why don't you spread that profit around man, you didn't 'work' for it".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why taxation is theft, "they didn't work for it, they take it at the end of a gun, they are extremely wasteful with it when they aren't being corrupt sh**ts and they won't even tell you how much you owe, you have to figure that out yourself, and if you get it wrong, you can go to jail"  It's stupid (or is it?), but I get it.


I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

[AGA]

I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

The reasoning is that it is income generated just by owning property and doesn't require work.

[dead0man]

I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

The reasoning is that it is income generated just by owning property and doesn't require work.

why would anyone build something for someone else to live in?  If the answer involves the govt owning all/most housing, don't bother.

[PSOL]

All of the above

[AGA]

I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

The reasoning is that it is income generated just by owning property and doesn't require work.

why would anyone build something for someone else to live in?  If the answer involves the govt owning all/most housing, don't bother.

These people support socializing all housing.

[JA]

I get why private property can be considered theft, "you can't own the land man, the land is for every living thing".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why profit is theft, "why don't you spread that profit around man, you didn't 'work' for it".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why taxation is theft, "they didn't work for it, they take it at the end of a gun, they are extremely wasteful with it when they aren't being corrupt sh**ts and they won't even tell you how much you owe, you have to figure that out yourself, and if you get it wrong, you can go to jail"  It's stupid (or is it?), but I get it.


I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

Opposition to rent is derived from its dependence on private property laws. The exploitative aspect of profit and rent stem from the unearned income derived from merely having legal claim to private property. If you aren’t actively owning property (as in you, the owner, are using those tools/land/etc or occupying that dwelling), then it’s a passive income, which is unearned (i.e. theft).

[dead0man]

I get why private property can be considered theft, "you can't own the land man, the land is for every living thing".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why profit is theft, "why don't you spread that profit around man, you didn't 'work' for it".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why taxation is theft, "they didn't work for it, they take it at the end of a gun, they are extremely wasteful with it when they aren't being corrupt sh**ts and they won't even tell you how much you owe, you have to figure that out yourself, and if you get it wrong, you can go to jail"  It's stupid (or is it?), but I get it.


I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

Opposition to rent is derived from its dependence on private property laws. The exploitative aspect of profit and rent stem from the unearned income derived from merely having legal claim to private property. If you aren’t actively owning property (as in you, the owner, are using those tools/land/etc or occupying that dwelling), then it’s a passive income, which is unearned (i.e. theft).

why would anyone build a building someone else could live in under such a silly system?

[JA]

I get why private property can be considered theft, "you can't own the land man, the land is for every living thing".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why profit is theft, "why don't you spread that profit around man, you didn't 'work' for it".  It's stupid, of course, but I get it.

I get why taxation is theft, "they didn't work for it, they take it at the end of a gun, they are extremely wasteful with it when they aren't being corrupt sh**ts and they won't even tell you how much you owe, you have to figure that out yourself, and if you get it wrong, you can go to jail"  It's stupid (or is it?), but I get it.


I don't get how rent, by itself*, can be considered theft.  If you live under a roof you don't own, you should help pay for it.  Why would anyone let you live under their roof if you refuse?



*unless "rent" is just a short word for "private property"

Opposition to rent is derived from its dependence on private property laws. The exploitative aspect of profit and rent stem from the unearned income derived from merely having legal claim to private property. If you aren’t actively owning property (as in you, the owner, are using those tools/land/etc or occupying that dwelling), then it’s a passive income, which is unearned (i.e. theft).

why would anyone build a building someone else could live in under such a silly system?

That assumes selfish self-interest to be man’s primary motivator, rather than altruism and cooperation. People would build homes, work fields, labor in factories, perform customer service, prepare food, etc... to provide for others in their community because, in return, others will provide for them. There would be increased difficulty in terms of movement, which has to be worked out, when you won’t have an abundance of available, unoccupied housing units. However, you’d resolve the issue of homelessness when income is no longer the gatekeeper of housing.

[Big Abraham]

"Private property is theft" is an anti-scientific, Proudhonist, self-refuting and unnecessarily confusing maxim, which has no basis in genuine socialist theory. The very idea of anything being "theft" presupposes the right to the existence of property, does it not?

[Santander]

Obviously only actual theft. (i.e. looting)

Other things can be theft in some circumstances, but not in the way the commies/ancaps think. Examples would be using rent to personally profit off a nonprofit organization, taxation in a kleptocratic regime, or illegal tax avoidance on profits.

[John Dule]

People would build homes, work fields, labor in factories, perform customer service, prepare food, etc... to provide for others in their community because, in return, others will provide for them.

That sounds a lot like what we have now.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Out of these options, only looting should be considered theft. Taxation is more of a gray area in that, say, a 100% tax would clearly be theft but taxation as presently structured in developed countries is not "theft" the way ancaps and some libertarians say it is.

Profit and private property are also gray areas. While not inherently theft, and while necessary political goods, I take the same position as these gentlemen:

The money you hoard you stole from the poor, the unused clothes in your closet you stole from the naked, and those rotting shoes in your closet you stole from the needy.

The rich are in possession of the goods of the poor, even if they have acquired them honestly or inherited them legally.

[Kingpoleon]

Private property cannot in and of itself be theft. Land could be considered theft - that you own something you did not make merely by existing there. There’s a very strong case for philosophical Georgism - the taxation of land because land is originally a public resource that must be “rented” by its owner to the government, the sole representative of the whole public.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Private property cannot in and of itself be theft. Land could be considered theft - that you own something you did not make merely by existing there. There’s a very strong case for philosophical Georgism - the taxation of land because land is originally a public resource that must be “rented” by its owner to the government, the sole representative of the whole public.

Georgism is a great political philosophy, but would be impossible to implement as government cannot reasonably be expected to function on a single source of tax revenue.

[SevenEleven]

Looting stores. Rent, kind of. That's a very complicated issue. I'm leaning more and more toward some form of housing being a right but that doesn't necessarily implicate renting as a concept.

[RI]

Economic rent (or at least certain forms of it) is essentially theft. Not the type of rent you pay a landlord, though.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Rent can be theft depending on how exploitative the landlord is but isn't ipso facto theft. Profit is theft if it only serves to line the pockets of fat cats but is not theft if it's reinvested or otherwise used to expand a business in the real economy. Looting stores is obviously theft. Private property isn't inherently theft. Taxation can be unjust, but is not theft as long as it's levied by a legitimately constituted political authority. I suppose taxation could be theft if it's being blatantly used for kickback purposes or being collected by tax farmers rather than a regulated, semi-accountable revenue service.

Things can be morally but not legally theft, i.e. taking something that someone else morally ought to be given but doesn't have a legally enforceable right to. Much of the everyday machinery of capitalist society falls into this category. Things can also be legally but not morally theft, i.e. taking something that someone else is unjustly proprietary about--"time theft" (although to the best of my knowledge this isn't a legally enforced concept anywhere since it's such an obviously ridiculous notion), theft of things like potable water, and so forth.

[S019]

Only looting stores (sane)

[Stuart98]

only Looting stores.

[Kingpoleon]

Georgism is a great political philosophy, but would be impossible to implement as government cannot reasonably be expected to function on a single source of tax revenue.

Well, it really came up before we understood the concept of economic incentives. Sales tax serves to disincentivize spending; sin tax (explicitly) serves to discourage alcohol and tobacco; income tax doesn’t really discourage income, because people like making money.

It’s obvious now that a land tax, like most property/transactional taxes, just serves to discourage people from owning land.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

That assumes selfish self-interest to be man’s primary motivator, rather than altruism and cooperation. People would build homes, work fields, labor in factories, perform customer service, prepare food, etc... to provide for others in their community because, in return, others will provide for them. There would be increased difficulty in terms of movement, which has to be worked out, when you won’t have an abundance of available, unoccupied housing units. However, you’d resolve the issue of homelessness when income is no longer the gatekeeper of housing.

So they act out of self interest?

Money is literally just a very liquid representation of what you've done for others which you can in turn use to give others when they do things for you. It's the only way we can line up this mutual, self-interested altruism in a community of any size. The key is to build a system where everyone acting in self interest allows the greatest common good to flourish and we call that system the market economy.