opinion of the second Covid bailout of the airlines

[dead0man]

Congress passed a $50B bailout in April, $25B in cheap loans, $25B to cover workers ($715k per job), now Trump, Pelosi and Senate Republicans all want to spend another $25B (again, $715k per job for 6 months).

[courts]

i'm for it

[Ferguson97]

I support bailing out massive industries because if they fail, it would only make the recession worse (sane)

[Santander]

As an ex-pilot, I have to stand with the airlines. No, that is not the principled thing to do, but I am just as self-interested as anyone.

[gerritcole]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

[Santander]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

They employ hundreds of thousands of workers directly, and millions indirectly.

[Ferguson97]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

Green avatars consistently have some of the worst takes

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

Green avatars consistently have some of the worst takes

Yes, I agree.

[gerritcole]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

They employ hundreds of thousands of workers directly, and millions indirectly.

Yea and there's millions of ppl unemployed throughout america - they should all be helped, not specific industries with good lobbying helped out

[Santander]

No industry bailout w/o direct financial support for each and every American. So no, let them fail

They employ hundreds of thousands of workers directly, and millions indirectly.

Yea and there's millions of ppl unemployed throughout america - they should all be helped, not specific industries with good lobbying helped out

Or maybe different industries are facing different challenges.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Problem is, once the pandemic is over it's doubtful that the airline industry will return to its former glory.  Business travel will not return to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon, maybe not even anytime in the 2020s, and it is business travel that funds the airlines by and large. Tourist/personal travel is just a way to make some incremental revenue at an incremental expense.

Any program that insists that the airlines not downsize at all is wasteful.

That said, I expect United will pull out of its commercial vaults, tho probably update it some, a classic commercial in which some sales manager for a struggling company calls everyone in to a big meeting, the underlings are wondering which of them are going to get axed, and instead he hands out a bunch of United Airlines tickets and tells his salesmen (salesmen, not salespeople, as this ad was late 70s, early 80s, if I remember correctly) to get hustling and make sales calls in person rather than over the phone, as the stirring Gershwin music plays and everyone on screen gets excited.

[Santander]

Problem is, once the pandemic is over it's doubtful that the airline industry will return to its former glory.  Business travel will not return to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon, maybe not even anytime in the 2020s, and it is business travel that funds the airlines by and large. Tourist/personal travel is just a way to make some incremental revenue at an incremental expense.

Any program that insists that the airlines not downsize at all is wasteful.

That said, I expect United will pull out of its commercial vaults, tho probably update it some, a classic commercial in which some sales manager for a struggling company calls everyone in to a big meeting, the underlings are wondering which of them are going to get axed, and instead he hands out a bunch of United Airlines tickets and tells his salesmen (salesmen, not salespeople, as this ad was late 70s, early 80s, if I remember correctly) to get hustling and make sales calls in person rather than over the phone, as the stirring Gershwin music plays and everyone on screen gets excited.

I see you remember that ad, too. A classic. Gene Hackman voiceover!
It was 1989, btw.

[AGA]

Maybe if they start giving more legroom and better snacks.

[John Dule]

shocked that people would be against helping the airlines, after all they've done for us

[Nutmeg]

Only if they pay us back in the future when they are raking in the dough again. The problem with these many examples of picking winning and losing industries is that the recipients of our cash never pay us back. I've seen conflicting information on whether Wall Street ever repaid us for all the cash Bush pushed their way in 2008.

[Former President tack50]

Problem is, once the pandemic is over it's doubtful that the airline industry will return to its former glory.  Business travel will not return to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon, maybe not even anytime in the 2020s, and it is business travel that funds the airlines by and large. Tourist/personal travel is just a way to make some incremental revenue at an incremental expense.

Any program that insists that the airlines not downsize at all is wasteful.

Isn't this extremely dependent on the airline? Sure, for mainline airlines their biggest revenue source is business.

But there are tons of leisure oriented airlines out there. Going by that description, I would expect airlines like Ryanair or Easyjet to be in good shape starting in 2022.  And the same applies to whatever their American equivalents is.

Even for mainline airlines they can still definitely "rebrand" in some way, even if this is a huge downturn for them

[Former President tack50]

Maybe if they start giving more legroom and better snacks.

Going by recent airline trends, if anything you should expect less legroom and no snacks whatsoever (hell, I have had food in an airplane very few times in my life)

[Santander]

Problem is, once the pandemic is over it's doubtful that the airline industry will return to its former glory.  Business travel will not return to pre-pandemic levels anytime soon, maybe not even anytime in the 2020s, and it is business travel that funds the airlines by and large. Tourist/personal travel is just a way to make some incremental revenue at an incremental expense.

Any program that insists that the airlines not downsize at all is wasteful.

Isn't this extremely dependent on the airline? Sure, for mainline airlines their biggest revenue source is business.

But there are tons of leisure oriented airlines out there. Going by that description, I would expect airlines like Ryanair or Easyjet to be in good shape starting in 2022.  And the same applies to whatever their American equivalents is.

Even for mainline airlines they can still definitely "rebrand" in some way, even if this is a huge downturn for them

Well, we're talking about a bailout of airlines in the US, where budget airlines are a small fraction of the market. Even Southwest carries a lot of business traffic. The US is one country, so there is a lot more demand for business travel where people have to go from everywhere to everywhere, while international business travel in Europe is mostly limited to relatively few city pairs that are often connected by rail. Business travel ensures there is little seasonality in the US market compared to the leisure-dominated European market, which has massive seasonality. But that also means that their business models fall apart when business travel demand is depressed, since they have a relatively fixed cost base and operational strategy changes are very costly and time-consuming.

[PSOL]

Where’s the nationalization option?

[Santander]

Where’s the nationalization option?

"We're capitalists, and that's just the way it is." - Nancy Pelosi