Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?
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  Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?
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Author Topic: Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?  (Read 2180 times)
S019
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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2020, 06:03:18 PM »

If you're going to dismiss them as undeserving "flyover" people, then there's no need for or possibility of argument. It's purely a question of interests. You believe that theirs should be crushed.

It should not surprise you that the feeling is mutual, nor should you be surprised in the future when it becomes clear that this divide is bigger, more important, and much scarier than if it were merely about a Cheeto in the White House , or whether the Democratic tax regime written to advantage the blue state rich is better than a Republican tax regime written to benefit the red state rich.


I mean of course, I would support my own interests. Quite frankly, I also never get this sympathy for these rural racists in Appalachia, I never understood why we must pander to them? Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't think I am.
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2020, 06:22:23 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)    

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.


I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).







Okay, this talking point needs to end. The 2017 tax cuts literally only helped you if you're super rich and you live in a red state. If you don't make much then you didn't get much benefit, and if you live in a blue state, your taxes went up. It's literally a give away to flyover country like KY and WV, why should blue states be bailing out these failed states?


Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.

"Vote for Trump because he’s going to deal with all of the things that got worse during the years he was President!"

One hell of a reelection pitch you've got there. Stick with trade and the SALT deduction.

Yes, because forcing consumers to pay more for goods, because we're scared of imports, is such a good policy...

No those state governments are the ones raising your taxes and here's a deal I will make to restore SALT.


We will restore SALT Only if states are required to let you deduct federal taxes


This still doesn't explain why flyover country WWC people deserve a tax cut.

Their states have kept state taxes relatively low so the limitation of SALT doesnt benefit them at all.

This isnt the first time SALT was attempted to be limited: Jack Kemp proposed in the 86 tax reform SALT to be eliminated but Reagan told him they didnt have the votes to do that or else that happens then too.
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Pericles
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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2020, 07:35:23 PM »

Biden plan could halve poverty

I don't think people appreciate how transformational even a 'moderate' Democratic trifecta could be, or how backward the US is on so many issues (Democratic trifectas have been pretty rare in the last few decades).
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Nightcore Nationalist
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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2020, 08:40:07 AM »

From a cost benefit analysis in terms of the impact on the deficit, the minimal economic benefits of the 2017 tax cut were most certainly not worth it. And for the third time in row we have seen that supply side tax cuts do not pay for themselves because the growth never gets high enough or lasts long enough to pay for themselves before another recession comes along and balloons the deficit even more. Furthermore, the presumption that spending cuts will happen to ensure that it balances out is foolish because the politics will never be their to make that an easy sell. The right wants defense spending and the left wants domestic spending and neither side will every cut their base's gravy train off.

The end result of divorcing spending from the revenues is that you end up with massive deficits because people love tax cuts and they also love not losing their gravy train. Its the free money trap. The problem is the money is not free, it is coming from China, from Opec and other places we really should not be beholden to, or it is coming right out of the Federal Reserve.

Either way, this model is not sustainable to the long term success of the nation and we are only going to ping pong ourselves to bankruptcy and ruin if we keep playing these games based on pie in the sky modeling, wishful delusions about spending cuts and failure to consider the long term consequences of one's actions.

Republicans need to bury deficit funded tax cuts and find a new catchall economic policy, that works congruent with, not in conflict with the geopolitical struggle with China that OSR often talks about.


This is the best argument against the tax cuts that I've read.  My economic/tax/welfare policies have veered well Left since 2018 (I was a (l)ibertarian well into 2017) and there are still aspects of the tax bill that I support, but from a purely political perspective, it was a big waste of time and political capital, as Trump would lose the House his limited time was much better spent on something else, and not to mention the defecits.  I mostly blame the Ryan Congress and Trump delegating policy to them, due to laziness or lack of interest.
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Nightcore Nationalist
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« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2020, 09:12:18 AM »

Trump has:
- Disrupted (sort of) the House Freedom Caucus!!!!!
- Appointed a great Justice in Gorsuch; plus two iffy ones
- Been much friendlier to Taiwan
- Been much stronger against China
- Passed a decent NA trade deal

So if your biggest issues are objective SC Justices or blatantly partisan ones; anti-China; better free trade, except the TPP for some reason; and destroying the Freedom Caucus by any means necessary, there’s a decent case for voting for him. The Supreme Court becomes a null reason, unless Barrett does not have the votes before the election.

This is a quality post. I'll also add that in the event of Trump losing, the GOP in all likelihood regresses to it's pre-Trump position of being exceedingly Capitalistic and deferential to corporate interests, neoconservative in it's foreign policy, and loses any semblance of supporting the working class.  That Trump is too pro-corporate and ignores his base's interests is a function of his own laziness/judgement, and the GOPe's subversion of Trump's electoral win.

Considering that suburban whites with a 4 year degree have zoomed left by a double digit margin (most of whom permanently), this would put the GOP in the permanent minority, for 8-12 years. Obviously if you are fiercely anti-GOP you support that, I don't blame you whatsoever.  I have no faith in the GOP establishment to learn the right lessons from Trump losing, and will rather devolve into the party of Mitt Romney and David French-who would rather the Left win every single battle rather than compromise MUH REE MARKET principles (see-monopolies and big tech).

If the GOPe was competent and understood why Trump won the nomination and the election in the first place, I wouldn't be that concerned about Trump losing this election.  I'd gladly support a traditional republican who has learned the correct lessons from the outgoing political era-think Ron DeSantis or Marco Rubio, and moderates on things like College Tuition, but there is no guarantee the party will go on that trajectory.  If the GOP ignores the working class, it's toast.




Huh 

In all seriousness, if you are seriously pro-life (I'm pretty ambivalent on the issue) then this administration has been excellent on the issue of abortion.

Only 10 years ago, most Democrats like Schumer/Hillary/Obama sounded as tough on Immigration as Republicans did.  Bernie called open borders a "Koch brothers ploy" in 2015.  One of the biggest reasons for the recent Democratic weakness among the WWC is immigration policy, to the benefit of big business/the financial class.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2020, 05:20:48 PM »

In all seriousness, if you are seriously pro-life (I'm pretty ambivalent on the issue) then this administration has been excellent on the issue of abortion.

During the course of Barack Hussein "Baby Killer" Obama's presidency, the abortion rate fell from 15.6 per 1,000 live births to 11.6 per 1,000 live births - an over 25% reduction.

Why were you not happy about that? Because he didn't give you an excuse to demean and degrade families for making different choices than you wanted them to?
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2020, 01:02:55 PM »

Quote from: Electoral College Dropout
During the course of Barack Hussein "Baby Killer" Obama's presidency, the abortion rate fell from 15.6 per 1,000 live births to 11.6 per 1,000 live births - an over 25% reduction.

Why were you not happy about that? Because he didn't give you an excuse to demean and degrade families for making different choices than you wanted them to?

A downward trend in the national abortion rate does not negate the immorality of it being legal, nor does it lend moral credibility to the people who want it to remain legal (a category that includes Barack Obama). If it was legal to murder 5-year-olds or grown adults, would you point to any downward trend in the national rate as proof that it shouldn't be illegal and argue that said trend discredits anyone who thinks it should be illegal?
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2020, 01:00:12 PM »

Quote from: Electoral College Dropout
During the course of Barack Hussein "Baby Killer" Obama's presidency, the abortion rate fell from 15.6 per 1,000 live births to 11.6 per 1,000 live births - an over 25% reduction.

Why were you not happy about that? Because he didn't give you an excuse to demean and degrade families for making different choices than you wanted them to?

A downward trend in the national abortion rate does not negate the immorality of it being legal, nor does it lend moral credibility to the people who want it to remain legal (a category that includes Barack Obama). If it was legal to murder 5-year-olds or grown adults, would you point to any downward trend in the national rate as proof that it shouldn't be illegal and argue that said trend discredits anyone who thinks it should be illegal?

Do you really believe that if you ban abortion, there will be no more abortions?
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SNJ1985
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2020, 01:32:43 PM »

Quote from: Electoral College Dropout
During the course of Barack Hussein "Baby Killer" Obama's presidency, the abortion rate fell from 15.6 per 1,000 live births to 11.6 per 1,000 live births - an over 25% reduction.

Why were you not happy about that? Because he didn't give you an excuse to demean and degrade families for making different choices than you wanted them to?

A downward trend in the national abortion rate does not negate the immorality of it being legal, nor does it lend moral credibility to the people who want it to remain legal (a category that includes Barack Obama). If it was legal to murder 5-year-olds or grown adults, would you point to any downward trend in the national rate as proof that it shouldn't be illegal and argue that said trend discredits anyone who thinks it should be illegal?

Do you really believe that if you ban abortion, there will be no more abortions?

No, but it is indeed possible for an abortion ban to lead to fewer abortions, as RI pointed out in this thread.
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