Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?
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  Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?
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Author Topic: Republicans, why should any of us vote for Trump?  (Read 2181 times)
Indy Texas
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« on: September 22, 2020, 08:01:05 PM »

How has Donald Trump done anything to improve my life or make me better off since he became president?

Locking Central American children in abandoned Walmarts in the desert doesn't help me.

The Republican tax cuts didn't provide any benefit to me.

Judges who will make it harder to get an abortion do not help me, as I don't really care if other people have abortions.
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538Electoral
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2020, 03:33:26 AM »

Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.
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hyouzel the predictor
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2020, 10:22:29 PM »

Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.

The fact that the first point Trumpets have to bring up is "muh ANTIFA Marxists" is sad.

That doesn't affect >99% of the population.

Trump, as a president, enacts policy that hurts the people and helps the corporations. Trump, as a politician, uses dirty tactics and embarrasses the US on a global scale. Trump, as a person, is a money hungry egotistical misogynist who will do absolutely anything to keep what little power he has in this world.

And that's not even mentioning his response to COVID, where his rhetoric to "own the libs" ended up killing thousands of his own supporters.

There is no argument for Trump. Absolutely none, at this point.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2020, 11:53:39 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)   

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.
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peenie_weenie
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2020, 12:34:21 AM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)    

Having disdain for the right people isn't enough. You are literally describing a grievance campaign.

If this is what America looks like under an "abject outsider", I'd rather take the insufferable DC snobs.

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.

Trump has said (and undoubtedly thinks) far worse both about those in the Heartland and their fellow citizens.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2020, 09:46:26 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)   

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2020, 09:59:15 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)   

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2020, 02:46:25 AM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)   

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.

Republicans claimed that the corporation tax cuts would “trickle down” to employees as companies used them to increase salaries. Of course, and as Trump and the GOP knew full well would happen, the corporations instead just increased shareholder dividends, ballooning the deficit and bringing to benefit to most Americans. The truth is that Trump, a New York elite who has never done an honest day’s work in his life, has governed as a standard economically hard-right, elitist and pro-corporate Republican.
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2020, 04:04:04 AM »
« Edited: September 27, 2020, 04:07:05 AM by Old School Republican »

I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).




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President Johnson
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2020, 09:55:37 AM »

I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).


Well, I don't think the Democrats will pack the Supreme Court, although it would be justified after Mitch stole Scalia's seat and is now the a complete hypocrite. Court packing wouldn't even be an attack on institutions since congress has the power to decide the size of the court. Even if Democrats packed the court, it would be nothing compared to Trump's attacks on institutions.

It's beyond questionable the 2017 tax cuts actually did help the economy. Sure, if you look at the stock market, it's probably true. But other than Wall Street and Trump's Mar-A-Lago buddies, not a lot of folks benefited from it. Certainly not Main Street. Under Joe Biden's tax plan, the corporate tax will be increased to 28% (was 35% before 2017), while the wealthy will pay more in taxes. That's hardly a socialist policy. Should also be noted that job growth in Obama's second term was higher than under Trump (pre-Covid crash). The deficit also got smaller throughout Obama's presidency, while it went up under Trump even before the pandemic came. And farmers under Trump got a punch in the gut with his clueless trade wars that lack any strategy. Trump's economic policies are vastly overrated, just has he is overrated as a businessman.

A Republican senate will stand in the way of actual progress on several issues. If you're concerned about the Sanders agenda, it's unlikely it will happen in a 50 or 51 seat senate. It wouldn't even pass as proposed if Sanders was president with a trifecta. Last but not least, Senate Republicans should not be rewarded for their cowardly attitude towards Trump. Aside from Mitt Romney, almost none had the backbone to stand up to Trump's ongoing assault on institutions, his corruption and abuse of power, his lies, the ignorance towards facts, the coddling up to dictators and autocrats as well as the disgusting personal behavior. The Republican Party as of today with Trumpism, Qanon, religious bigots and science deniers needs to be crushed and burned to the ground. And then pick up the pieces and built a sane center-right party that is more similar to Canadian Tories rather than a personality cult. It may be wishful thinking this ever happens in the near future, but I think I'm not alone with this opinion.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2020, 10:13:17 AM »

You shouldn't vote for Donald Trump, nor should you make these types of threads.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2020, 11:22:36 AM »

Ah America. Land of opportunity. Where anyone can aspire to be an "outsider", no matter how rich, privileged, influential and well-connected they actually are.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2020, 12:05:20 PM »

I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).


Well, I don't think the Democrats will pack the Supreme Court, although it would be justified after Mitch stole Scalia's seat and is now the a complete hypocrite. Court packing wouldn't even be an attack on institutions since congress has the power to decide the size of the court. Even if Democrats packed the court, it would be nothing compared to Trump's attacks on institutions.

It's beyond questionable the 2017 tax cuts actually did help the economy. Sure, if you look at the stock market, it's probably true. But other than Wall Street and Trump's Mar-A-Lago buddies, not a lot of folks benefited from it. Certainly not Main Street. Under Joe Biden's tax plan, the corporate tax will be increased to 28% (was 35% before 2017), while the wealthy will pay more in taxes. That's hardly a socialist policy. Should also be noted that job growth in Obama's second term was higher than under Trump (pre-Covid crash). The deficit also got smaller throughout Obama's presidency, while it went up under Trump even before the pandemic came. And farmers under Trump got a punch in the gut with his clueless trade wars that lack any strategy. Trump's economic policies are vastly overrated, just has he is overrated as a businessman.

A Republican senate will stand in the way of actual progress on several issues. If you're concerned about the Sanders agenda, it's unlikely it will happen in a 50 or 51 seat senate. It wouldn't even pass as proposed if Sanders was president with a trifecta. Last but not least, Senate Republicans should not be rewarded for their cowardly attitude towards Trump. Aside from Mitt Romney, almost none had the backbone to stand up to Trump's ongoing assault on institutions, his corruption and abuse of power, his lies, the ignorance towards facts, the coddling up to dictators and autocrats as well as the disgusting personal behavior. The Republican Party as of today with Trumpism, Qanon, religious bigots and science deniers needs to be crushed and burned to the ground. And then pick up the pieces and built a sane center-right party that is more similar to Canadian Tories rather than a personality cult. It may be wishful thinking this ever happens in the near future, but I think I'm not alone with this opinion.


1. Schumer left it open to that though

2. While I don’t think Biden’s plan is the worst plan a democrat could implement, I still like the status quo over his plan . Also that’s not true the 2017 tax reform doubled the standard deduction which is very beneficial to most families , doubled the child tax credit , did decrease rates for middle class families , created a credit for other dependents too .

For rich individuals they take a hit as they can’t deduct as much as they used to on State and Local Taxes and reduced the amount they could deduct in mortgage deductions too
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2020, 07:25:35 PM »

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.
Donald Trump is the first President in recent history to raise taxes on small businesses. Small businesses paying a 21% corporate tax (or higher) has not occurred in recent memory.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2020, 11:21:52 PM »

Trump has:
- Disrupted (sort of) the House Freedom Caucus!!!!!
- Appointed a great Justice in Gorsuch; plus two iffy ones
- Been much friendlier to Taiwan
- Been much stronger against China
- Passed a decent NA trade deal

So if your biggest issues are objective SC Justices or blatantly partisan ones; anti-China; better free trade, except the TPP for some reason; and destroying the Freedom Caucus by any means necessary, there’s a decent case for voting for him. The Supreme Court becomes a null reason, unless Barrett does not have the votes before the election.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2020, 01:24:51 PM »

I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).


You keep saying that the 2017 Tax Reform was good. However, let me ask you a question: As of 2016, the US debt/GDP ratio was 105%.

Also, the economy, while not doing super amazing, was doing "fine" under the late Obama administration, with a 2% annual GDP growth on average. Growth was slightly stronger in 2018 and 2019 but even then it was at 2.5% on average between the 2, so the increase was minimal.

As for the other big indicator of unemployment, the US unemployment rate was just barely below 5% in 2016. That is a pretty good number and in fact is the barrier where society is considered to have "full employment". Even if you argue (reasonably) that Trump's tax cut did marginally decrease unemployment, is it really a good thing if it sent the debt up for a marginal improvement in unemployment?

TL;DR: Why was a tax cut that at best had a marginal effect in stimulating the economy, and instead would increase the debt any good? Shoudn't Trump literally just have kept the economy as it was and gradually reduce the debt instead of passing tax cuts for no reason?
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Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2020, 05:30:38 PM »

He's opposed to mass immigration and mass abortion.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2020, 05:58:52 PM »

He's opposed to mass immigration and mass abortion.

Real classy juxtaposition there, dude.
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Nightcore Nationalist
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2020, 02:00:46 PM »

I'm not going to waste my or anyone else's time convincing someone to vote for Trump, mostly because many other right of centre posters are far more articulate and intelligent than me, and I'm lazy.
 
But I have a pile of reasons to vote against the Democratic party, the institutional Left, and Biden, who's the face of the neo-liberal, corporatist, cosmopolitan opposition.
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2020, 02:14:21 PM »

I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).





The second one is a great incentive for me to vote for Hickenlooper.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2020, 02:35:56 PM »

From a cost benefit analysis in terms of the impact on the deficit, the minimal economic benefits of the 2017 tax cut were most certainly not worth it. And for the third time in row we have seen that supply side tax cuts do not pay for themselves because the growth never gets high enough or lasts long enough to pay for themselves before another recession comes along and balloons the deficit even more. Furthermore, the presumption that spending cuts will happen to ensure that it balances out is foolish because the politics will never be their to make that an easy sell. The right wants defense spending and the left wants domestic spending and neither side will every cut their base's gravy train off.

The end result of divorcing spending from the revenues is that you end up with massive deficits because people love tax cuts and they also love not losing their gravy train. Its the free money trap. The problem is the money is not free, it is coming from China, from Opec and other places we really should not be beholden to, or it is coming right out of the Federal Reserve.

Either way, this model is not sustainable to the long term success of the nation and we are only going to ping pong ourselves to bankruptcy and ruin if we keep playing these games based on pie in the sky modeling, wishful delusions about spending cuts and failure to consider the long term consequences of one's actions.

Republicans need to bury deficit funded tax cuts and find a new catchall economic policy, that works congruent with, not in conflict with the geopolitical struggle with China that OSR often talks about.
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2020, 05:45:33 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)    

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.


I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).







Okay, this talking point needs to end. The 2017 tax cuts literally only helped you if you're super rich and you live in a red state. If you don't make much then you didn't get much benefit, and if you live in a blue state, your taxes went up. It's literally a give away to flyover country like KY and WV, why should blue states be bailing out these failed states?


Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.

"Vote for Trump because he’s going to deal with all of the things that got worse during the years he was President!"

One hell of a reelection pitch you've got there. Stick with trade and the SALT deduction.

Yes, because forcing consumers to pay more for goods, because we're scared of imports, is such a good policy...
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2020, 05:49:19 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)    

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.


I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).







Okay, this talking point needs to end. The 2017 tax cuts literally only helped you if you're super rich and you live in a red state. If you don't make much then you didn't get much benefit, and if you live in a blue state, your taxes went up. It's literally a give away to flyover country like KY and WV, why should blue states be bailing out these failed states?


Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.

"Vote for Trump because he’s going to deal with all of the things that got worse during the years he was President!"

One hell of a reelection pitch you've got there. Stick with trade and the SALT deduction.

Yes, because forcing consumers to pay more for goods, because we're scared of imports, is such a good policy...

No those state governments are the ones raising your taxes and here's a deal I will make to restore SALT.


We will restore SALT Only if states are required to let you deduct federal taxes
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S019
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2020, 05:52:13 PM »

Donald Trump is an abject outsider.  He has challenged more than the agendas and assumptions of the political establishment; his very manner in appearance, speech and governing is an affront to the Washington political class and media, their norms and euphemisms (which is why they despise rather than simply oppose him.)    

Trump has the instincts to see the wisdom of not writing off the interior of the country as an aging and irredeemable "basket of deplorables."  Despair in America's Heartland has proven the need to question the previously unquestionable tenets of a global, liberal order that only serves to enrich cities and the elites who live there.  Trump is the only candidate campaigning to break American out of the globalist doldrums and transform our national spirit; his opponents only offer misplaced nostalgia for the very past that precipitated the necessity of Trump's politics - there is no transformation, no message, no relief in what they offer to America.

Who do you think the 2017 tax cuts mostly benefited?

Donald Trump can say he hates "the elites" but he keeps rewarding them with massive tax cuts.

Trump's tax changes really benefited pass-through entities and small businesses.

He severely limited the SALT and other deductions aimed at high income earners in in high-tax states.


I dont think you should vote for Trump, but here are two major reasons to vote for a Republican senate:


1. To Stop the Democrats from packing the court and destroying a core part of our republic forever

2. So we can keep the 2017 Tax Reform which really did help the economy(there is a reason the economy is an issue Trump still gets high marks on and that is thanks to the 2017 tax reform Bill).







Okay, this talking point needs to end. The 2017 tax cuts literally only helped you if you're super rich and you live in a red state. If you don't make much then you didn't get much benefit, and if you live in a blue state, your taxes went up. It's literally a give away to flyover country like KY and WV, why should blue states be bailing out these failed states?


Trump is taking action against the Antifa domestic terrorists.

"Vote for Trump because he’s going to deal with all of the things that got worse during the years he was President!"

One hell of a reelection pitch you've got there. Stick with trade and the SALT deduction.

Yes, because forcing consumers to pay more for goods, because we're scared of imports, is such a good policy...

No those state governments are the ones raising your taxes and here's a deal I will make to restore SALT.


We will restore SALT Only if states are required to let you deduct federal taxes


This still doesn't explain why flyover country WWC people deserve a tax cut.
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Averroës Nix
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2020, 06:01:27 PM »

If you're going to dismiss them as undeserving "flyover" people, then there's no need for or possibility of argument. It's purely a question of interests. You believe that theirs should be crushed.

It should not surprise you that the feeling is mutual, nor should you be surprised in the future when it becomes clear that this divide is bigger, more important, and much scarier than if it were merely about a Cheeto in the White House , or whether the Democratic tax regime written to advantage the blue state rich is better than a Republican tax regime written to benefit the red state rich.
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