Trump Praises General Lee in Minnesota
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2020, 08:38:07 AM »

Robert E. Lee deserves to have his own statues because he was "beating Lincoln a lot" and "almost" won the war?

WTF??

I guess the GOP has completed its journey from being the party of Lincoln to being the anti-Lincoln party.

You can make the same case for building Hitler monuments all over Europe too. He was "beating the allies a lot".
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« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2020, 09:05:45 AM »

Robert E. Lee deserves to have his own statues because he was "beating Lincoln a lot" and "almost" won the war?

WTF??

I guess the GOP has completed its journey from being the party of Lincoln to being the anti-Lincoln party.

You can make the same case for building Hitler monuments all over Europe too. He was "beating the allies a lot".

GOP presidential candidate in 2028: "Adolf Hitler was vigorously fighting radical socialist and Stalin-lover Franklin D. Roosevelt. He would have won except for Normandy. We need to erect more statues to commemorate him."
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2020, 10:11:26 AM »

Robert E. Lee deserves to have his own statues because he was "beating Lincoln a lot" and "almost" won the war?

WTF??

I guess the GOP has completed its journey from being the party of Lincoln to being the anti-Lincoln party.

You can make the same case for building Hitler monuments all over Europe too. He was "beating the allies a lot".

And just like the Confederacy, he came in second.  Should be worth at least a silver medal, right?
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Crane
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2020, 10:16:23 AM »

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.

Since PA, MD, NJ and NY =/= ND, I would say that your posts are not mutually exclusive.

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.

Trump didn't say this in rural PA, MD, NJ or upstate NY. He said it in Minnesota.
Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.
I'm from rural Ohio and and used to live rural Minnesota and BRTD is correct. I'm having trouble remembering if i ever saw someone with the battle flag in the six years i lived in Minnesota. Whereas, whenever i visit family in Ohio i'll usually see the stars and bars all over the place. Quite frankly i don't think you can compare rural Minnesota to rural Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

The original quote was "Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags." It didn't specify Minnesota or North Dakota.
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Santander
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2020, 10:22:43 AM »

Robert E. Lee deserves to have his own statues because he was "beating Lincoln a lot" and "almost" won the war?

WTF??

I guess the GOP has completed its journey from being the party of Lincoln to being the anti-Lincoln party.

You can make the same case for building Hitler monuments all over Europe too. He was "beating the allies a lot".

And just like the Confederacy, he came in second.  Should be worth at least a silver medal, right?

Better silver than bronz.
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2020, 10:23:01 AM »

Northern "meh rebel fleg" aesthetically-pro-Confederate mouth-breathers don't give a damn about Robert E. Lee, or at least they didn't until Trump made ~heritage not hate~ a generic rightist cause célèbre.
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2020, 10:25:54 AM »

Northern "meh rebel fleg" aesthetically-pro-Confederate mouth-breathers don't give a damn about Robert E. Lee, or at least they didn't until Trump made ~heritage not hate~ a generic rightist cause célèbre.


"The South" can also be a state of mind for some confederate flag wavers outside the South. aka religion, racism, backwards social beliefs, etc. Its nothing to do with "heritage" just people who share the same sh**tty value system as people waving confederate flags as the south.
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ugabug
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2020, 01:45:56 PM »

The original quote was "Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags." It didn't specify Minnesota or North Dakota.
Which was in reply to this "Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues." in a thread about Trump giving a speech in Minnesota. Now granted other northern states are like that, just not the one that this thread is about.

Point is, this kind of rhetoric isn't likely to help Trump in Minnesota since even the rural Trump supporting areas in Minnesota are mostly neutral on the Confederate battle flag but could hurt him if it increases turn out in the twin cities against him.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2020, 02:26:21 PM »

Robert E. Lee deserves to have his own statues because he was "beating Lincoln a lot" and "almost" won the war?

WTF??

I guess the GOP has completed its journey from being the party of Lincoln to being the anti-Lincoln party.

You can make the same case for building Hitler monuments all over Europe too. He was "beating the allies a lot".

And just like the Confederacy, he came in second.  Should be worth at least a silver medal, right?

Better silver than bronz.

Goddamit
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2020, 02:37:32 PM »

RE: The Confederate Flag...

First of all, I adamantly oppose anyone flying that flag, let alone in the frickin' North.  It saddens me deeply that many culturally conservative and/or rural Northerners have felt alienated enough to adopt a flag of a group that their own culturally conservative and rural ancestors fought and died to defeat.  Primary sources are quite clear that there was no "urban-rural divide" with one's support for the Union ... heck, if anything, the rural areas of the North were more fervent about fighting the war to preserve the Union than cities like New York or Boston.

With that said, the flag sadly has come to symbolize "country life" or something of that nature to many, and I would hypothesize that the areas in which it is most popular in the North are in states with huge urban-rural divides?  I could see someone from rural New York who hates the influence NYC has on the state falling for that traitorous rag moreso than someone from rural South Dakota.

Lastly, let's remember that there are small regions of Illinois, Indiana (has been mentioned) and Ohio (has been mentioned) that probably historically felt more in common with the South than their own states.  Southern Illinois had segregated schools WAY past the rest of the state in the Twentieth Century, for example.  So, I would be less surprised at somebody in Southern IL flying that flag than I would at someone from rural Central IL flying it, though the latter does depressingly exist, too.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2020, 03:25:40 PM »

RE: The Confederate Flag...

First of all, I adamantly oppose anyone flying that flag, let alone in the frickin' North.  It saddens me deeply that many culturally conservative and/or rural Northerners have felt alienated enough to adopt a flag of a group that their own culturally conservative and rural ancestors fought and died to defeat.  Primary sources are quite clear that there was no "urban-rural divide" with one's support for the Union ... heck, if anything, the rural areas of the North were more fervent about fighting the war to preserve the Union than cities like New York or Boston.

With that said, the flag sadly has come to symbolize "country life" or something of that nature to many, and I would hypothesize that the areas in which it is most popular in the North are in states with huge urban-rural divides?  I could see someone from rural New York who hates the influence NYC has on the state falling for that traitorous rag moreso than someone from rural South Dakota.

Lastly, let's remember that there are small regions of Illinois, Indiana (has been mentioned) and Ohio (has been mentioned) that probably historically felt more in common with the South than their own states.  Southern Illinois had segregated schools WAY past the rest of the state in the Twentieth Century, for example.  So, I would be less surprised at somebody in Southern IL flying that flag than I would at someone from rural Central IL flying it, though the latter does depressingly exist, too.

Yeah screw Yankees who fly the flag 100%. I think Beaver 2.0 a few months ago did have a good post defending the use of southerners flying the flag and although he may disagree with it, they aren't deserving of extreme contempt.
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Crane
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« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2020, 03:58:58 PM »

RE: The Confederate Flag...

First of all, I adamantly oppose anyone flying that flag, let alone in the frickin' North.  It saddens me deeply that many culturally conservative and/or rural Northerners have felt alienated enough to adopt a flag of a group that their own culturally conservative and rural ancestors fought and died to defeat.  Primary sources are quite clear that there was no "urban-rural divide" with one's support for the Union ... heck, if anything, the rural areas of the North were more fervent about fighting the war to preserve the Union than cities like New York or Boston.

With that said, the flag sadly has come to symbolize "country life" or something of that nature to many, and I would hypothesize that the areas in which it is most popular in the North are in states with huge urban-rural divides?  I could see someone from rural New York who hates the influence NYC has on the state falling for that traitorous rag moreso than someone from rural South Dakota.

Lastly, let's remember that there are small regions of Illinois, Indiana (has been mentioned) and Ohio (has been mentioned) that probably historically felt more in common with the South than their own states.  Southern Illinois had segregated schools WAY past the rest of the state in the Twentieth Century, for example.  So, I would be less surprised at somebody in Southern IL flying that flag than I would at someone from rural Central IL flying it, though the latter does depressingly exist, too.

Correct. As everyone knows, Southern Indiana was the birthplace of the KKK's second iteration in the early 20th Century (iirc something like 15% of all adult men in select southern counties were members at its peak.) to
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Badger
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2020, 04:34:44 PM »

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.
I'm from rural Ohio and and used to live rural Minnesota and BRTD is correct. I'm having trouble remembering if i ever saw someone with the battle flag in the six years i lived in Minnesota. Whereas, whenever i visit family in Ohio i'll usually see the stars and bars all over the place. Quite frankly i don't think you can compare rural Minnesota to rural Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

Further proof that the true divider between north and south is not the Mason-Dixon line, but rather I 70.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2020, 10:09:34 PM »

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.
I'm from rural Ohio and and used to live rural Minnesota and BRTD is correct. I'm having trouble remembering if i ever saw someone with the battle flag in the six years i lived in Minnesota. Whereas, whenever i visit family in Ohio i'll usually see the stars and bars all over the place. Quite frankly i don't think you can compare rural Minnesota to rural Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

Further proof that the true divider between north and south is not the Mason-Dixon line, but rather I 70.

Yankee and Dixie settlement patterns in Ohio are two much of a chess board pattern for a single line to effectively represented pro-Southern views during the Civil War. There is also the hour-glass/bowtie shape in PA that I have talked about, where the sides of the bow tie are pro-confederate and the right one even has an arm reaching up towards Albany where a combination of Irish, Dutch and other Non-Yankees formed a bastion of opposition to Lincoln though it is debatable how pro-Southern that group was versus just being pro-Democratic against a "Yankee-dominated" Republican Party. 
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Badger
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2020, 10:13:09 PM »

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.
I'm from rural Ohio and and used to live rural Minnesota and BRTD is correct. I'm having trouble remembering if i ever saw someone with the battle flag in the six years i lived in Minnesota. Whereas, whenever i visit family in Ohio i'll usually see the stars and bars all over the place. Quite frankly i don't think you can compare rural Minnesota to rural Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

Further proof that the true divider between north and south is not the Mason-Dixon line, but rather I 70.

Yankee and Dixie settlement patterns in Ohio are two much of a chess board pattern for a single line to effectively represented pro-Southern views during the Civil War. There is also the hour-glass/bowtie shape in PA that I have talked about, where the sides of the bow tie are pro-confederate and the right one even has an arm reaching up towards Albany where a combination of Irish, Dutch and other Non-Yankees formed a bastion of opposition to Lincoln though it is debatable how pro-Southern that group was versus just being pro-Democratic against a "Yankee-dominated" Republican Party. 

Dude, it was a joke.
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« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2020, 10:14:27 PM »

I miss the Republican Party of Calvin Coolidge in so many ways.

When Yankee Conservatism wasn't an esoteric concept that required 18 full length paragraphs to explain how it wasn't just "Liberals before a party flip at magic x date" and Republican Presidents wouldn't be caught dead praising the opposite side of the "voted as they shot" paradigm. When many people were still alive who had parents who were members of the GAR and its indirect influence could still be felt. Simpler times!
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« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2020, 10:16:30 PM »

Why would you say this in Minnesota? People there don't give a crap about Confederate statues.

Northern states are full of hicks who proudly display Confederate flags despite their own ancestors were shot by people brandishing those flags.  Trump rallies are where you are as bound to find those morons as anywhere.

Wrong.

You can't just say something's wrong because you haven't personally experienced it. I can tell you there are tons of Confederate flags in rural PA, MD, NJ and upstate NY. Nowadays they're more likely to be accompanied by the blue lives matter and the no steppy on snek, but they haven't gone away.
I'm from rural Ohio and and used to live rural Minnesota and BRTD is correct. I'm having trouble remembering if i ever saw someone with the battle flag in the six years i lived in Minnesota. Whereas, whenever i visit family in Ohio i'll usually see the stars and bars all over the place. Quite frankly i don't think you can compare rural Minnesota to rural Ohio, Pennsylvania, or Indiana.

Further proof that the true divider between north and south is not the Mason-Dixon line, but rather I 70.

Yankee and Dixie settlement patterns in Ohio are two much of a chess board pattern for a single line to effectively represented pro-Southern views during the Civil War. There is also the hour-glass/bowtie shape in PA that I have talked about, where the sides of the bow tie are pro-confederate and the right one even has an arm reaching up towards Albany where a combination of Irish, Dutch and other Non-Yankees formed a bastion of opposition to Lincoln though it is debatable how pro-Southern that group was versus just being pro-Democratic against a "Yankee-dominated" Republican Party. 

Dude, it was a joke.

Why let a little thing like that get in the way of verbally describing a map of Yankee Northern, versus Non-Yankee Northern settlement patterns in the Civil War Period?
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« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2020, 10:52:28 PM »
« Edited: September 22, 2020, 11:07:53 PM by HenryWallaceVP »

I miss the Republican Party of Calvin Coolidge in so many ways.

When Yankee Conservatism wasn't an esoteric concept that required 18 full length paragraphs to explain how it wasn't just "Liberals before a party flip at magic x date" and Republican Presidents wouldn't be caught dead praising the opposite side of the "voted as they shot" paradigm. When many people were still alive who had parents who were members of the GAR and its indirect influence could still be felt. Simpler times!

I miss the Whig Party of William Penn in so many ways.

When Yankee Liberalism wasn't an esoteric concept that required 18 full length paragraphs to explain how it wasn't just "Evangelicals before a religion flip at magic x date" and republican commonwealthmen wouldn't be caught dead praising popery. When many people were still alive who had parents who were members of the NMA and its indirect influence could still be felt. Simpler times!
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« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2020, 11:18:18 PM »

I miss the Republican Party of Calvin Coolidge in so many ways.

When Yankee Conservatism wasn't an esoteric concept that required 18 full length paragraphs to explain how it wasn't just "Liberals before a party flip at magic x date" and Republican Presidents wouldn't be caught dead praising the opposite side of the "voted as they shot" paradigm. When many people were still alive who had parents who were members of the GAR and its indirect influence could still be felt. Simpler times!

I miss the Whig Party of William Penn in so many ways.

When Yankee Liberalism wasn't an esoteric concept that required 18 full length paragraphs to explain how it wasn't just "Evangelicals before a religion flip at magic x date" and republican commonwealthmen wouldn't be caught dead praising popery. When many people were still alive who had parents who were members of the NMA and its indirect influence could still be felt. Simpler times!

One man's revolutionary is the next guy's establishment to be overthrown.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2020, 10:48:23 AM »

Here where I live in California there was a truck that used to drive around with a confederate flag, but I haven't see it since the shooting in Charleston. There are plenty of people who embrace the confederacy even though they are nowhere near the south and have no connection to it.

There are reasonable places for Confederate flags.

Civil War re-enactments.
Honoring the dead of the Civil War.
Cinematic and educational purposes. (as in Germany it will be difficult to see images of prominent Nazis without the cross-of-Satan armband during the war or images of Nazi Germany or the pre-1933 Nazi Party without you-know-what flag).
Mockery.

Otherwise the Stars and Bars has become a symbol of KKK fascism. It is now largely a flag of disgrace along with Commie, Ba'athist, and ISIS flags.
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« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2020, 11:15:23 AM »

Confederate flags up north are a thing. They are not common per say but they're there.

I've driven around in rural New England quite a bit, and while Confederate Flags up there aren't exactly common, you do see them. Early last year, I drove extensively in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona and oddly didn't see a single Confederate flag. They may be more common in rural OH, MI, & IN, but I've never driven there so I can't give a first-hand account.
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2020, 10:53:24 PM »

Confederate flags up north are a thing. They are not common per say but they're there.

I've driven around in rural New England quite a bit, and while Confederate Flags up there aren't exactly common, you do see them. Early last year, I drove extensively in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona and oddly didn't see a single Confederate flag. They may be more common in rural OH, MI, & IN, but I've never driven there so I can't give a first-hand account.
My Ontario neighbour has a confederate flag on his back porch door.
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« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2020, 07:34:13 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2020, 09:14:26 PM by Republicans for Biden »

Rural Southern IN, IL and OH are called butternut country, they used to be a long time Dem stronghold. There are probably lots of Confederate flags flying around the area.
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« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2020, 07:45:38 PM »

Confederate flags up north are a thing. They are not common per say but they're there.

I've driven around in rural New England quite a bit, and while Confederate Flags up there aren't exactly common, you do see them. Early last year, I drove extensively in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona and oddly didn't see a single Confederate flag. They may be more common in rural OH, MI, & IN, but I've never driven there so I can't give a first-hand account.

My Ontario neighbour has a confederate flag on his back porch door.

Now that is strange.
Did this person once live in Southern US?
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« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2020, 07:46:38 PM »

Rural Southern IN, IL and OH are called butternut country, they used to be a long time Dem stronghold. There are probably lots of Confederate flags flying around the area. Take

Yeah, one of them used to be me.
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