To court packing supporters on atlas.

[lfromnj]

Just curious

[Darthpi - Crush the Oligarchy]

I think four is arguably justified, but two is probably the politically expedient number.

[Hindsight was 2020]

2 because it makes up for the two stolen seats and at least keeps the ideology balance in tact  with Roberts as the swing

[หมูเด้ง]

A CJ, and one for each CCOA.

[SWE]

2 for each Trump appointee seems like a fair compromise

[GeneralMacArthur]

I don't want to pack the court as a policy move.  I want packing the court to be the nuclear button that Democrats press to force Republicans to answer for their declaration of war on democracy over the last ten years.

I don't even want to see the court packed.  I want Democrats to use this weapon to force Republicans to agree to a series of reforms that will make things fair for both sides.  Right now Republicans claim to have a set of principles, but they only apply those principles to Democrats, and allow Republicans to do whatever they want.  If you want those principles, fine.  We'll let you have them!  But if the Republicans want to live in a country with those principles, they must be enshrined into law, ideally in the constitution, so that they can be applied regardless of political party.  And the hyper-politicization of every single sector of government must end.  We can not live in a country where even the USPS becomes a political tool for the president to enforce tyranny of the minority!

Basically, the message is this.  You've made things extremely unfair, and our democracy is currently broken.  We want to fix it.  Here is our proposal for how to fix it, which you must agree to negotiate in good faith.  If you choose instead to laugh in our face and continue perpetuating this broken democracy and broken country, fine, we will make sure you get what you paid for.

If it helps to make it obvious to the American people what's going on and counter some Fox News talking points, I'd actually support the Democrats threatening to pack the court with some laughably high number of justices.  Like say they're going to add 1,000 new justices or something.  Just to make it clear that the point of packing the court isn't to achieve any policy aim, it's a temporary thing to force Republicans to partake in healing the massive wounds they've inflicted on our government.

[SteveRogers]

4, bringing the Court to 13, one for each appellate court. But I’d prefer a substantial structural reform to the Court where the justices get rotated out.

[American2020]

It might be time to rethink the Supreme Court nomination process

There's nothing in the Constitution that says there should be nine justices.
Congress has the ability to set the size of the court, according to Article III of the Constitution, which reads: "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."
There were six justices when the Court first began in 1789. It's been at nine since 1869.
Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to pack the court after he won his second term in office, when the court was standing in the way of some of his New Deal proposals.
He backed a law that would have added a justice for every Supreme Court justice over the age of 70, and capped the size of the court at 15. The proposal ultimately foundered, however.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/19/politics/supreme-court-confirmation-process-ginsburg/index.html

[GP270watch]

 I'd like to see an even number of justices no matter how many are added, so there are more split decisions in the future. The Supreme Court has become too powerful with the Congress becoming totally dysfunctional.

[OBD]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

[7,052,770]

Ideally, they should just appoint a new justice every year (or every two years) for a lifetime appointment, so the size of the Court will float over the years. Have some kind of escape hatch for the Senate just openly refuses to confirm anyone.

Again, I don't want to just stack a liberal Court, I just want a fair, equitable process that doesn't depend on luck. I'm fine with Republicans getting an upper hand sometimes in a fair process. But I suppose thinking like that is what makes me a Democrat and not a Republican in the first place, which is why we're not likely to get a compromise like that.

[pppolitics]

Go nuclear

15 justices

[OSR stands with Israel]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

Then if Republicans get the trifecta they should increase it to 49. Two can play it this game

[OSR stands with Israel]

I don't want to pack the court as a policy move.  I want packing the court to be the nuclear button that Democrats press to force Republicans to answer for their declaration of war on democracy over the last ten years.

I don't even want to see the court packed.  I want Democrats to use this weapon to force Republicans to agree to a series of reforms that will make things fair for both sides.  Right now Republicans claim to have a set of principles, but they only apply those principles to Democrats, and allow Republicans to do whatever they want.  If you want those principles, fine.  We'll let you have them!  But if the Republicans want to live in a country with those principles, they must be enshrined into law, ideally in the constitution, so that they can be applied regardless of political party.  And the hyper-politicization of every single sector of government must end.  We can not live in a country where even the USPS becomes a political tool for the president to enforce tyranny of the minority!

Basically, the message is this.  You've made things extremely unfair, and our democracy is currently broken.  We want to fix it.  Here is our proposal for how to fix it, which you must agree to negotiate in good faith.  If you choose instead to laugh in our face and continue perpetuating this broken democracy and broken country, fine, we will make sure you get what you paid for.

If it helps to make it obvious to the American people what's going on and counter some Fox News talking points, I'd actually support the Democrats threatening to pack the court with some laughably high number of justices.  Like say they're going to add 1,000 new justices or something.  Just to make it clear that the point of packing the court isn't to achieve any policy aim, it's a temporary thing to force Republicans to partake in healing the massive wounds they've inflicted on our government.

The Democrats started this not the GOP in the Bush years so again stop with your guys moral high ground because the Democrats are equally to blame for this

[pppolitics]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

Then if Republicans get the trifecta they should increase it to 49. Two can play it this game

Don't worry. Democrats can increase it to 99 later.

[7,052,770]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

Then if Republicans get the trifecta they should increase it to 49. Two can play it this game

It's almost like we need a new system that's fair to everyone...

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

I think four is arguably justified, but two is probably the politically expedient number.

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Democrats started this not the GOP in the Bush years so again stop with your guys moral high ground because the Democrats are equally to blame for this

Uh, no.  The GOP started this.  Whatever chicanery Harry Reid may have pulled to block Bush's recess appointees or what have you pale in comparison to the GOP's actions against Obama from 2011 onward.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The Democrats started this not the GOP in the Bush years so again stop with your guys moral high ground because the Democrats are equally to blame for this

Uh, no.  The GOP started this.  Whatever chicanery Harry Reid may have pulled to block Bush's recess appointees or what have you pale in comparison to the GOP's actions against Obama from 2011 onward.

it wasnt blocking recess appointments , it was blocking judges for years :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/with-judicial-nominees-democrats-have-only-themselves-to-blame/2018/07/05/2225c65c-8067-11e8-b660-4d0f9f0351f1_story.html

[GeneralMacArthur]

The Democrats started this not the GOP in the Bush years so again stop with your guys moral high ground because the Democrats are equally to blame for this

Uh, no.  The GOP started this.  Whatever chicanery Harry Reid may have pulled to block Bush's recess appointees or what have you pale in comparison to the GOP's actions against Obama from 2011 onward.

it wasnt blocking recess appointments , it was blocking judges for years :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/with-judicial-nominees-democrats-have-only-themselves-to-blame/2018/07/05/2225c65c-8067-11e8-b660-4d0f9f0351f1_story.html

Well, I didn't know what you were referring to in this thread, but i replied to you on that issue in the other thread.  Pick one thread to continue this discussion on please.

[TDAS04]

6, for 15.

[Wrong about 2024 Ghost]

I don't want to pack the court as a policy move.  I want packing the court to be the nuclear button that Democrats press to force Republicans to answer for their declaration of war on democracy over the last ten years.

I don't even want to see the court packed.  I want Democrats to use this weapon to force Republicans to agree to a series of reforms that will make things fair for both sides.  Right now Republicans claim to have a set of principles, but they only apply those principles to Democrats, and allow Republicans to do whatever they want.  If you want those principles, fine.  We'll let you have them!  But if the Republicans want to live in a country with those principles, they must be enshrined into law, ideally in the constitution, so that they can be applied regardless of political party.  And the hyper-politicization of every single sector of government must end.  We can not live in a country where even the USPS becomes a political tool for the president to enforce tyranny of the minority!

Basically, the message is this.  You've made things extremely unfair, and our democracy is currently broken.  We want to fix it.  Here is our proposal for how to fix it, which you must agree to negotiate in good faith.  If you choose instead to laugh in our face and continue perpetuating this broken democracy and broken country, fine, we will make sure you get what you paid for.

If it helps to make it obvious to the American people what's going on and counter some Fox News talking points, I'd actually support the Democrats threatening to pack the court with some laughably high number of justices.  Like say they're going to add 1,000 new justices or something.  Just to make it clear that the point of packing the court isn't to achieve any policy aim, it's a temporary thing to force Republicans to partake in healing the massive wounds they've inflicted on our government.

The Republicans have no interest stopping, much less in reversing, the abuse they perpetuate on our nation. They will never negotiate in good faith. They will take your deal and then laugh in your face when they use it against their opponents, while breaking it themselves.

You want principles "enshrined into law, ideally in the constitution"?!? Like what?

Rules of succession at federal agencies?

A law to prevent civil servants from engaging in some forms of political activity?

Laws against extortion, laws punishing witnesses who refuse to testify or produce papers, or laws against political coercion?

A ban officials on receiving emoluments?

Giving Congress oversight and control of spending?


No change to the mechanisms of government, no matter how well-intentioned or cleverly-crafted, is going stop a band of amoral authoritarians who don't care what they break in their quest for power. The only way this stops without the destruction of the United States is if Donald Trump and all his fellow criminals are arrested, put in court, found guilty, and sentenced to the full extent of the law. And any would-be future imitators need to meet the same fate much more quickly.

[GeneralMacArthur]

I don't want to pack the court as a policy move.  I want packing the court to be the nuclear button that Democrats press to force Republicans to answer for their declaration of war on democracy over the last ten years.

I don't even want to see the court packed.  I want Democrats to use this weapon to force Republicans to agree to a series of reforms that will make things fair for both sides.  Right now Republicans claim to have a set of principles, but they only apply those principles to Democrats, and allow Republicans to do whatever they want.  If you want those principles, fine.  We'll let you have them!  But if the Republicans want to live in a country with those principles, they must be enshrined into law, ideally in the constitution, so that they can be applied regardless of political party.  And the hyper-politicization of every single sector of government must end.  We can not live in a country where even the USPS becomes a political tool for the president to enforce tyranny of the minority!

Basically, the message is this.  You've made things extremely unfair, and our democracy is currently broken.  We want to fix it.  Here is our proposal for how to fix it, which you must agree to negotiate in good faith.  If you choose instead to laugh in our face and continue perpetuating this broken democracy and broken country, fine, we will make sure you get what you paid for.

If it helps to make it obvious to the American people what's going on and counter some Fox News talking points, I'd actually support the Democrats threatening to pack the court with some laughably high number of justices.  Like say they're going to add 1,000 new justices or something.  Just to make it clear that the point of packing the court isn't to achieve any policy aim, it's a temporary thing to force Republicans to partake in healing the massive wounds they've inflicted on our government.

The Republicans have no interest stopping, much less in reversing, the abuse they perpetuate on our nation. They will never negotiate in good faith. They will take your deal and then laugh in your face when they use it against their opponents, while breaking it themselves.

That's why we have to use the threat of court packing to force them to the negotiating table.

[SWE]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

Then if Republicans get the trifecta they should increase it to 49. Two can play it this game

They should! 9 justices is an absolutely insane state of affairs

[OBD]

Let's pay homage to FDR with 15 justices. As others have said, it's time to go nuclear.

Then if Republicans get the trifecta they should increase it to 49. Two can play it this game

And then we'll increase it to 420. Because why not.

You guys started this arms race by stealing Scalia's seat then (presumably) stealing RBG's seat in the most hypocritical manner possible. We CANNOT take this lying down.