Princeton admits its racism, so DoE opens an investigation

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

President Christopher L. Eisgruber published an open letter earlier this month claiming that "[r]acism and the damage it does to people of color persist at Princeton" and that "racist assumptions" are "embedded in structures of the University itself."

According to a letter the Department of Education sent to Princeton that was obtained by the Washington Examiner, such an admission from Eisgruber raises concerns that Princeton has been receiving tens of millions of dollars of federal funds in violation of Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which declares that "no person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/exclusive-education-department-opens-investigation-into-princeton-university-after-president-deems-racism-embedded-in-the-school

[Where's the Epstein Client List?]

What is Princeton doing about this racism?

Are they going to abolish legacy admission preferences?

Are they going to increase the size of their student body to keep pace with population growth so you don't have more and more kids competing for the same number of seats?

Are they going to lower their sticker price, which is known to deter low-income students from applying to private universities in the first place?

Are they going to de-emphasize personal statements and resumes to account for the fact that most high schoolers don't get to do pay-to-play internships or travel to Europe and even more mundane extracurriculars like sports can be too expensive for kids from poor families to participate in?

Or are they just going to write articles like this so they can feel better about themselves and leave an offering at the Temple of Wokeness?

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

I think a lot of the problems at these universities stem from their dishonesty about their affirmative action policies. They engage in pretty massive racial discrimination to get a racially representative college. Black students at most of the Ivys have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and 300+ below asian students. When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.
However, the colleges aren't honest about the fact that their black students are coming in with much worse academic records, and so black students look at the inequitable outcomes and assume there must be unequal treatment, egged on by the intellectual trend on the left to assume differences in outcomes is prima facie proof of discrimination.
There's no clear way to fix this. If the Ivys want to remain academically rigorous and racially representative, they'll have a lot of black students who are at the bottom of the class, which will naturally spark discontent.

[GP270watch]

I think a lot of the problems at these universities stem from their dishonesty about their affirmative action policies. They engage in pretty massive racial discrimination to get a racially representative college. Black students at most of the Ivys have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and 300+ below asian students. When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.
However, the colleges aren't honest about the fact that their black students are coming in with much worse academic records, and so black students look at the inequitable outcomes and assume there must be unequal treatment, egged on by the intellectual trend on the left to assume differences in outcomes is prima facie proof of discrimination.

 This has been studied and most of what you're saying is not true. The dropout rate is not much higher at many top universities:

https://www.jbhe.com/2013/11/black-student-graduation-rates-at-high-ranking-colleges-and-universities/



 The number one factor for a student dropping out of college is poverty, regardless of race and black students also face racism.  The top universities due to their ridiculous endowments and unequal setup made a commitment(to shield themselves from criticism/regulation) that any student accepted would get total financial help if needed. Ever since then dropout rates have fallen for poor/working class students.

 Secondly, dumbass legacy kids who don't have good SAT scores manage to graduate just fine.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

I think a lot of the problems at these universities stem from their dishonesty about their affirmative action policies. They engage in pretty massive racial discrimination to get a racially representative college. Black students at most of the Ivys have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and 300+ below asian students. When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.
However, the colleges aren't honest about the fact that their black students are coming in with much worse academic records, and so black students look at the inequitable outcomes and assume there must be unequal treatment, egged on by the intellectual trend on the left to assume differences in outcomes is prima facie proof of discrimination.

 This has been studied and most of what you're saying is not true. The dropout rate is not much higher at many top universities:

https://www.jbhe.com/2013/11/black-student-graduation-rates-at-high-ranking-colleges-and-universities/



 The number one factor for a student dropping out of college is poverty, regardless of race and black students also face racism.  The top universities due to their ridiculous endowments and unequal setup made a commitment(to shield themselves from criticism/regulation) that any student accepted would get total financial help. Ever since then dropout rates have fallen for poor/working class students.

 Secondly, dumbass legacy kids who don't have good SAT scores manage to graduate just fine.

7% black dropout rate, 3% white dropout rate at Princeton is insignificant?
http://www.kailchan.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/EspenshadeChungWalling-SSQ-2004_Admission-preferences-at-elite-universities.pdf
The black admissions advantage is substantially larger, and legacy students have a lot less group identity than black students, since it's not a visible characteristic.

[GP270watch]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

[Former President tack50]

Maybe it's because of my (obvious) background, but am I the only one who thinks that a 7% dropout rate is still incredibly good performance?

Especially at an "elite" university.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

[dead0man]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

sure, but if you look at the numbers other, very specific ways it doesn't look that bad.  "Optics" ya know.

[doc gerritcole]

When are they going to admit to anti asian american racism

[GP270watch]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

sure, but if you look at the numbers other, very specific ways it doesn't look that bad.  "Optics" ya know.

 You have two 100 student groups: 99 graduate in group A and 98 graduate in group B, so you have twice the dropout rate. To say people from group B should be omitted would be ludicrous.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Maybe it's because of my (obvious) background, but am I the only one who thinks that a 7% dropout rate is still incredibly good performance?

Especially at an "elite" university.

Yes. "Elite" schools in the US (particularly private schools) have zero academic rigor at the undergraduate level since it is necessary to retain customers and keep them happy to attract new ones. The academic intensity pales in comparison to suburban/elite urban high school competitiveness. You probably have to be going through a personal crisis of some sort or just be completely unable to self-motivate/actively not go to class (not to fault those individuals - college can be a very isolating experience that fosters those conditions).

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

sure, but if you look at the numbers other, very specific ways it doesn't look that bad.  "Optics" ya know.

 You have two 100 student groups: 99 graduate in group A and 98 graduate in group B, so you have twice the dropout rate. To say nobody from group B should be omitted would be ludicrous.

Do you mean admitted? I'm not saying Princeton shouldn't let in black students, I'm saying their black students did worse academically in high school and are doing worse academically in college, which causes some discontent because they think the gap is due to racism instead of different standards for admission.

[GP270watch]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

sure, but if you look at the numbers other, very specific ways it doesn't look that bad.  "Optics" ya know.

 You have two 100 student groups: 99 graduate in group A and 98 graduate in group B, so you have twice the dropout rate. To say nobody from group B should be omitted would be ludicrous.

Do you mean admitted? I'm not saying Princeton shouldn't let in black students, I'm saying their black students did worse academically in high school and are doing worse academically in college, which causes some discontent because they think the gap is due to racism instead of different standards for admission.

 This is not true either. Most of the Ivy League schools admit black students from feeder schools and programs that are academically rigorous. You're just making things up. And yes racism in the Ivy Leagues and elite schools is a factor, you only have to ask the black students who attend them.

[UncleSam]

When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.

 This is what you originally stated. The difference certainly doesn't merit omitting black students as the table shows.

You posted a chart showing black Princeton students drop out at more than twice the rate of white students. Is that not disproportionate?

sure, but if you look at the numbers other, very specific ways it doesn't look that bad.  "Optics" ya know.

 You have two 100 student groups: 99 graduate in group A and 98 graduate in group B, so you have twice the dropout rate. To say nobody from group B should be omitted would be ludicrous.

Do you mean admitted? I'm not saying Princeton shouldn't let in black students, I'm saying their black students did worse academically in high school and are doing worse academically in college, which causes some discontent because they think the gap is due to racism instead of different standards for admission.

 This is not true either. Most of the Ivy League schools admit black students from feeder schools and programs that are academically rigorous. You're just making things up. And yes racism in the Ivy Leagues and elite schools is a factor, you only have to ask the black students who attend them.

Do you just not read the posts you quote / reply to?

He never said racism isn’t real at these places, he said that because black students admitted to these universities had lower academic achievement going into college they thus are worse-prepared and perform worse at the college level, which breeds discontent with the system. That doesn’t mean the system itself isn’t also working against black students and exacerbating the problem.

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

One of the most ridiculous pieties of the current American center-left is the absurd belief that elite universities are somehow progressive or leveling institutions.

[GP270watch]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

[solidcoalition]

Very sad. You can’t make people love each other.

[Tintrlvr]

I think a lot of the problems at these universities stem from their dishonesty about their affirmative action policies. They engage in pretty massive racial discrimination to get a racially representative college. Black students at most of the Ivys have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and 300+ below asian students. When they get to college, they then naturally do much worse, getting lower grades and disproportionately failing out.
However, the colleges aren't honest about the fact that their black students are coming in with much worse academic records, and so black students look at the inequitable outcomes and assume there must be unequal treatment, egged on by the intellectual trend on the left to assume differences in outcomes is prima facie proof of discrimination.

 This has been studied and most of what you're saying is not true. The dropout rate is not much higher at many top universities:

https://www.jbhe.com/2013/11/black-student-graduation-rates-at-high-ranking-colleges-and-universities/



 The number one factor for a student dropping out of college is poverty, regardless of race and black students also face racism.  The top universities due to their ridiculous endowments and unequal setup made a commitment(to shield themselves from criticism/regulation) that any student accepted would get total financial help if needed. Ever since then dropout rates have fallen for poor/working class students.

 Secondly, dumbass legacy kids who don't have good SAT scores manage to graduate just fine.

There are some broad trends on this chart that are interesting. Smaller schools do better than larger ones at equal graduation rates, and three of the five schools where black students were more likely to graduate than white students are women's colleges (and what I think is the only other women's college on the list was at just -1).

Also, Berkeley and UCLA, which are explicitly forbidden from considering race in admissions by law (and maybe some of the other state schools that are heavily at the bottom of the list are, too? Not sure), perform near the very bottom of the barrel.

[AGA]

Don't forget about the rampant anti-male discrimination in Ivy Leagues.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

They have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and drop out at more than twice the rate of white students.
As someone who went to a prep school, I can assure you that prep school admissions are not race-blind either. The testing gap begins very young and academically selective institutions that wish to keep a racially representative student body inevitably make use of different standards.

[GP270watch]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

They have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and drop out at more than twice the rate of white students.
As someone who went to a prep school, I can assure you that prep school admissions are not race-blind either. The testing gap begins very young and academically selective institutions that wish to keep a racially representative student body inevitably make use of different standards.

lol SAT.

 The SAT as proven by the college cheating scandal is manipulated and cheated by parents with means.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

They have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and drop out at more than twice the rate of white students.
As someone who went to a prep school, I can assure you that prep school admissions are not race-blind either. The testing gap begins very young and academically selective institutions that wish to keep a racially representative student body inevitably make use of different standards.

lol SAT.

 The SAT as proven by the college cheating scandal is manipulated and cheated by parents with means.

Do you think every white kid is cheating on the SAT or is this going to be a series of bad faith dunks?

[GP270watch]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

They have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and drop out at more than twice the rate of white students.
As someone who went to a prep school, I can assure you that prep school admissions are not race-blind either. The testing gap begins very young and academically selective institutions that wish to keep a racially representative student body inevitably make use of different standards.

lol SAT.

 The SAT as proven by the college cheating scandal is manipulated and cheated by parents with means.

Do you think every white kid is cheating on the SAT or is this going to be a series of bad faith dunks?

 Outright cheating is the worst abuse but the test present other problems. The roots of almost all intelligence testing is founded in people who were huge blatant racists. They created a system in search of a result. Just do research into this:

Carl Brigham, remembered as an “ardent eugenicist and unabashed racist and anti-Semite”, created the SATs in 1920s, using his base testing from an army intelligence test. Additionally, Brigham wrote a piece titled “A Study of American Intelligence”, where he laid out his beliefs of three dominate white races (Mediterranean, Nordic, and Alpine), with Nordic being the “top” race. Brigham argued that we needed his standardized testing in order to increase the intelligence of the American race, due to the “racial mixture” of the country. In layman’s terms, he created a test for higher education institutions to use that would effectively push out, in Brigham’s mind, substandard individuals (e.g. Hispanics, African Americans, Jewish Americans), and allow for greater percentages of white races to succeed.

[Kyle Rittenhouse is a Political Prisoner]

Black students face lower admissions standards than students of other races due to affirmative action. That is what affirmative action is. Idk what you’re rambling about with ‘feeder schools’ but it’s preposterous to claim that it isn’t true that black students face lower admissions standards than all other students do because literally all the evidence points to the contrary.

   He said the performance was much worse, I pointed out that the dropout rate statistically is more correlated with poverty regardless of race. I showed real stats showing the difference was not that large considering the significant obstacles and actually improving since elite colleges made a commitment to meet the financial needs of disadvantaged students.

 Your second point regarding elite colleges is increasingly nonsense, since the black students are coming from the same prep schools as many of the white students. So how could their academic performance/preparation be worse?

 What’s more, the Ivies and other elite colleges disproportionately tap an even narrower niche for the black students it admits: elite private day and boarding schools like Phillips Exeter, Harvard Westlake, and Trinity. These students often come from poor or blue-collar communities and attend private school on scholarship. Great programs like Prep for Prep in New York City identify talented students of color early and prepare them to excel at private schools that were among the original bastions of white privilege.

 The idea that black students admitted to Ivy League can't "hack it" and therefore they claim racism as an excuse is a ridiculous claim to make without evidence, so where is the evidence?

They have SAT averages 200+ points below white students and drop out at more than twice the rate of white students.
As someone who went to a prep school, I can assure you that prep school admissions are not race-blind either. The testing gap begins very young and academically selective institutions that wish to keep a racially representative student body inevitably make use of different standards.

lol SAT.

 The SAT as proven by the college cheating scandal is manipulated and cheated by parents with means.

Do you think every white kid is cheating on the SAT or is this going to be a series of bad faith dunks?

 Outright cheating is the worst abuse but the test present other problems. The roots of almost all intelligence testing is founded in people who were huge blatant racists. They created a system in search of a result. Just do research into this:

Carl Brigham, remembered as an “ardent eugenicist and unabashed racist and anti-Semite”, created the SATs in 1920s, using his base testing from an army intelligence test. Additionally, Brigham wrote a piece titled “A Study of American Intelligence”, where he laid out his beliefs of three dominate white races (Mediterranean, Nordic, and Alpine), with Nordic being the “top” race. Brigham argued that we needed his standardized testing in order to increase the intelligence of the American race, due to the “racial mixture” of the country. In layman’s terms, he created a test for higher education institutions to use that would effectively push out, in Brigham’s mind, substandard individuals (e.g. Hispanics, African Americans, Jewish Americans), and allow for greater percentages of white races to succeed.

And yet somehow Jews have managed to outperform gentiles on every test of general cognitive ability for the past century. Surely, this is just pro-Jewish bias, right?