Opinion of J.K. Rowling

[Higgins]

I'm a fan of Harry Potter, but...politically I'd now support schools banning Harry Potter books because Rowling is a TERF.

You'd also support throwing people in prison for not conforming to your ideals, or even having entire families be forced into labor for the rest of their lives for not voting your way, so your opinions on all matters are thus void.

[Higgins]

I' ve never read Harry Potter books, although I've seen one movie or two with Emma Watson

I get the origin of the controversy is a serial killer in her latest book, entitled Troubled Blood. According to a Telegraph review, apparently there's a moral fable within that says "never trust a man dressed as a woman". There are things more truculent and scary than this,  just remember the skin dress wore by Buffalo Bill in The Silence of the Lambs. However, JK Rowling has been lambasted before for alleged transphobia. I'd say she's doing herself no favours, in case she wants to reject the accusations.

The issues related to sex, gender and identity are sensitive topics. It's an objective fact that trans persons are subject of high levels of violence and discrimination. I think the problem with the TERF and their likes is not only the claim that trans women are not 'real women'. Defining women only by biological facts may be narrow-minded, but the notion that all women must menstruate and have a vagina is very common. The meanest thing is the characterization of the 'impostor' trans women as mentally ill persons threatening the 'real' ones. People making such claims deserve to be execrated, because that's hate speech and causes suffering to a group of vulnerable human beings. Rowling is not so far from TERF stances, I am afraid

I will never understand this thinking. If a person was of the sincere belief that they were the reincarnation of so and so, and ought to be treated such and such, would we indulge them, or medicate them? If someone went around saying they fully in their heart believed they were not a human, but an animal, and behaved as an animal would, would they end up in therapy or not? Trans people are not "imposters", but they are mentally unwell all the same. It is an abberation of the brain for there to be such a disconnect between mind and body in the same way that there is an abberation of the brain in Autistic child - and we use therapy to treat those with Autism and make life easier for them. It doesn't mean Trans people should be mistreated, but it also doesn't mean their delusions should be indulged, either. If Jack feesls he is Jane, let him or her, but why should the public foot the bill for his transition? Why does he or she deserve a parade for cutting their penis off, you know?

[Higgins]

I'm a fan of Harry Potter, but...politically I'd now support schools banning Harry Potter books because Rowling is a TERF.

Oh come on. Rowling has some of the most repulsive views of any nominally leftist and feminist public figure in the English-speaking world (Linda Sarsour I guess would be another such example), but when your typical English curriculum includes or might include stuff by a convicted rapist (Thomas Malory), a man most of whose literary corpus revolves around someone he was stalking (Dante), multiple Stalinists (Lillian Hellman, Dashiell Hammett, others whose names I'm forgetting), and someone who supported reestablishing slavery (Charlotte Perkins Gilman), why exactly would this be where you draw the line?

Re Malory: In 15th century Britain in which the Thomas Malory we are pretty sure is the same Thomas Malory that was the Arhurian author, one could be charged with rape for having consensual sex with the wife of another man, if said other man did not agree with his wife sleeping with another man - She was "raped" because her husband did not allow for the sex to occur. I'd just thought I'd throw that bit of context in there since the dead cannot speak for themselves.

[Higgins]

You are basically implying that trans persons need a conversion therapy, similar to those therapies aimed at curing homosexualism and bisexualism. Should a trans conversion therapy include electroshock or not? Which medication would be the more appropriate to treat that disease?

I'm not a physician; I do not know what treatment but I am certain some form of medication would help the illness. I do not support electro shock therapy for anyone; it's barbaric. That being said, do we or do we not try to treat Autistic people to make life easier for them?

Do we not help people with Asbergers, or diseases of the brain which involve other motor dysfunctions better adjust to life?

Similarly, do we or do we not treat addicts? Addiction as I was taught in college is a "brain disease." Do we encourage and indulge and celebrate an addict being an addict, or do we encourage treatment and being clean?

Or if you take a look over the galley of the other various mental disorders like Anxiety, Depression, Body Dysmorphia Disosrder...Do we tell someone with Body Dysmorphia that purging and anorexia and bulimia is okay? That they are exactly what they see in the mirror? Do we throw them parades? Or do we try to help them realize that what they see subjectively is not objective fact?

[Higgins]

You are basically implying that trans persons need a conversion therapy, similar to those therapies aimed at curing homosexualism and bisexualism. Should a trans conversion therapy include electroshock or not? Which medication would be the more appropriate to treat that disease?

I'm not a physician; I do not know what treatment but I am certain some form of medication would help the illness. I do not support electro shock therapy for anyone; it's barbaric. That being said, do we or do we not try to treat Autistic people to make life easier for them?

Do we not help people with Asbergers, or diseases of the brain which involve other motor dysfunctions better adjust to life?

Similarly, do we or do we not treat addicts? Addiction as I was taught in college is a "brain disease." Do we encourage and indulge and celebrate an addict being an addict, or do we encourage treatment and being clean?

Or if you take a look over the galley of the other various mental disorders like Anxiety, Depression, Body Dysmorphia Disosrder...Do we tell someone with Body Dysmorphia that purging and anorexia and bulimia is okay? That they are exactly what they see in the mirror? Do we throw them parades? Or do we try to help them realize that what they see subjectively is not objective fact?

And gender dysphoria is treated by transitioning. There is an actual scientific consensus about this being the best way and having the best outcomes.

I'm sorry that you don't like it, but it's actually the transperson themself who is important. Not your own poorly conceived prejudices.

Also, again, I don't indulge mental illness. You do, because you have been conditioned by your professors to do so.
Gender dysmorphia isn't treated by transitioning. It is indulged. It's basically saying the best way to treat a heroin addict is to pump them full of heroin. A gambling addict's best bet at recovery is gambling some more. That is the mindset of people like you.
I'm sorry you don't like it, but it's the truth, not your bull--it politicized "science."

[Higgins]

Maybe I'm just some radical tranny, a mentally ill degenerate, or even just a triggered lib, but I find it weird how Higgins floats "some form of medication" to treat gender dysphoria, but when some form of medication is used to treat gender dysphoria, it's "indulging" my "delusions". And I'm not even unpacking the whole implications behind claiming being trans is a delusion.

I take sympathy on you and your struggles as a fellow person seeing as I've suffered with at times crippling anxiety and depression, but the people that happen to be on your side are my enemies. It's not really personal, to be honest. It's more that, like the environment, like healthcare, like civil rights, and everything else since 2016, transgender rights have just become another political football between two sides of the spectrum.

On an individual level no one should suffer or be made to feel differently, but I didn't start this cold civil war we've been in for four years.

[Higgins]

My views are my views. You deal with it. When Trump wins again, maybe he'll do something about it. See, I really don't care about it one way or another beyond about sticking it to people like you, that's about it. Really, at this point, my political views boil down to anything that upsets or causes a Communist pain or sadness is a good thing; The enemy of my enemy is my friend, basically. I watch the fireworks and eat my proverbial popcorn as the tears roll.

Higgins, mate, really suggest you try calling the Samaritans or something right about now. Engaging in these kinds of sinister threats against people on the internet isn't a good sign. Maybe just talking to someone willing to open an ear might put you on the right sort of path to getting the help you need.

Not sinister or a threat, more a statement of callous disregard at this point. At this point it's become a form of entertainment, like WWE, all fake. When election night happens, whoever wins, I'll enjoy the ensuing chaos. Maybe I'd care more if I wasn't told nonstop since approximately 2014 that I am a bad person simply for existing by the same side that preaches tolerance, love and peace for everyone else. You dig?

[Higgins]

All that's really being asked to simply acknowledge the massive advantage that you have for factors mostly out of your control, and to what you can to help lift others up and reduce this privilege gap.

Is that really so hard?

Thing is, I don't really see it. What can I do to help others, you mean, aside from hanging my head in shame, humbling myself and giving a portion of MY income - not some ancestor's wealth - MY earned income because of some dead slaver? Why should I do that? Why is MY problem?

I mean especially when you take into account that for me personally, I can proudly say that I have not a single slaver in my family tree. On all sides. Thoroughly researched. I'm Italian and I'm Irish. My Irish side on one side came over in the 1840s and fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War. Didn't own slaves, didn't later have a servent. The other Irish side came over in the 1920s. The Italians came over in the 1902 and 1906 respectively on both sides.

Not a single slaver, nor a single proponent of Jim Crow in my direct family line.

As far as familial wealth...There is none. My people were pretty poor planners. My great grandfather by his death amassed three houses and other property. His children squandered their inheritance and sold it piecemeal, the last piece being sold off 18 years before my birth. My grandfather sold the home he was raised in 1998 for $300,000. It's now worth $1.4 million.

So...no inherited wealth that came off the back of an African American or Native Indian either. You could say I sit on stolen land - that's true. All American land technically is stolen. Should I give it back? What can I do about that? It's a sad fact that the Natives were treated the way they were.

I'd sooner donate to a Native charity or cause than I would a Black charity, and I'll explain why:

Directly - in a straight line - The suffering of some Native is the reason I am sitting in the home I am renting. Maybe 300 years ago, maybe 400. Maybe it was some Dutch trader, or an English settler, but someone stole this piece of land probably from some Native whose family had it. So, in that sense, I directly benefit from injustice by virtue of where I am sitting. ""

I would gladly as such pay for any reparation package for Native Americans. But no one ever talks about that.

Insofar as the great suffering, servitude and mistreatment of Black Americans, though, there is no direct link between that misery and myself. Yet you call me to account for it. You call it victim-hood, but you're calling me to account for things as you said are "factors out of my control." The main factor is having been born with white skin and a penis, and having been baptized against my will as an infant. Nothing beyond that. Why should I pay for those things?


.

[Higgins]

[quote author=Ferguson97 link=topic=394529.msg7581814#msg7581814 date=1600300773
All that's really being asked to simply acknowledge the massive advantage that you have for factors mostly out of your control, and to what you can to help lift others up and reduce this privilege gap.

Is that really so hard?

Thing is, I don't really see it. What can I do to help others, you mean, aside from hanging my head in shame, humbling myself and giving a portion of MY income - not some ancestor's wealth - MY earned income because of some dead slaver? Why should I do that? Why is MY problem?

I mean especially when you take into account that for me personally, I can proudly say that I have not a single slaver in my family tree. On all sides. Thoroughly researched. I'm Italian and I'm Irish. My Irish side on one side came over in the 1840s and fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War. Didn't own slaves, didn't later have a servent. The other Irish side came over in the 1920s. The Italians came over in the 1902 and 1906 respectively on both sides.

Not a single slaver, nor a single proponent of Jim Crow in my direct family line.

As far as familial wealth...There is none. My people were pretty poor planners. My great grandfather by his death amassed three houses and other property. His children squandered their inheritance and sold it piecemeal, the last piece being sold off 18 years before my birth. My grandfather sold the home he was raised in 1998 for $300,000. It's now worth $1.4 million.

So...no inherite wealth that came off the back of an African American or Native Indian either. You could say I sit on stolen land - that's true. All American land technically is stolen. Should I give it back? What can I do about that? It's a sad fact that the Natives were treated the way they were.

I'd sooner donate to a Native charity or cause than I would a Black charity, and I'll explain why. Directly - in a straight line - The suffering of some Native is the reason I am sitting in the home I am renting. Maybe 200 years ago, maybe 400. Maybe it was some Dutch trader, or an English settler, but someone took this piece of land probably from some Native whose family had it. So, in that sense, I directly benefit from injustice by virtue of where I am sitting. I would gladly as such pay for any reparation package for the Natives. But no one ever talks about that.

Insofar as the great suffering and mistreatment of Black Americans, though, there is no direct link between that misery and myself. Yet you call me to account for it. You call it victimhood, but you're calling me to account for things as you said are "factors out of my control." The main factor is having been born with white skin and a penis, and having been baptized against my will as an infant. Nothing beyond that. Why should I pay for those things?


.

You are the master of making yourself look worse. I think I am less sympathetic to your beliefs than before I read that rant.
[/quote]

The plot twist is there was never point at which you were going to be sympathetic, nor am I asking you to be sympathetic either. I frankly don't care in the SLIGHTEST what someone like you thinks of me. Because it's clear we are worlds apart politically and in every sense of the word, metaphorically speaking. I don't need your sympathy, nor do I want it.

Actually, I think I've made my simple request quite clear: I am not a party to these issues, I am not guilty of these problems, so don't call me to account for them.

It's simple.

[Higgins]

[quote author=Ferguson97 link=topic=394529.msg7581814#msg7581814 date=1600300773
All that's really being asked to simply acknowledge the massive advantage that you have for factors mostly out of your control, and to what you can to help lift others up and reduce this privilege gap.

Is that really so hard?

Thing is, I don't really see it. What can I do to help others, you mean, aside from hanging my head in shame, humbling myself and giving a portion of MY income - not some ancestor's wealth - MY earned income because of some dead slaver? Why should I do that? Why is MY problem?

I mean especially when you take into account that for me personally, I can proudly say that I have not a single slaver in my family tree. On all sides. Thoroughly researched. I'm Italian and I'm Irish. My Irish side on one side came over in the 1840s and fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War. Didn't own slaves, didn't later have a servent. The other Irish side came over in the 1920s. The Italians came over in the 1902 and 1906 respectively on both sides.

Not a single slaver, nor a single proponent of Jim Crow in my direct family line.

As far as familial wealth...There is none. My people were pretty poor planners. My great grandfather by his death amassed three houses and other property. His children squandered their inheritance and sold it piecemeal, the last piece being sold off 18 years before my birth. My grandfather sold the home he was raised in 1998 for $300,000. It's now worth $1.4 million.

So...no inherite wealth that came off the back of an African American or Native Indian either. You could say I sit on stolen land - that's true. All American land technically is stolen. Should I give it back? What can I do about that? It's a sad fact that the Natives were treated the way they were.

I'd sooner donate to a Native charity or cause than I would a Black charity, and I'll explain why. Directly - in a straight line - The suffering of some Native is the reason I am sitting in the home I am renting. Maybe 200 years ago, maybe 400. Maybe it was some Dutch trader, or an English settler, but someone took this piece of land probably from some Native whose family had it. So, in that sense, I directly benefit from injustice by virtue of where I am sitting. I would gladly as such pay for any reparation package for the Natives. But no one ever talks about that.

Insofar as the great suffering and mistreatment of Black Americans, though, there is no direct link between that misery and myself. Yet you call me to account for it. You call it victimhood, but you're calling me to account for things as you said are "factors out of my control." The main factor is having been born with white skin and a penis, and having been baptized against my will as an infant. Nothing beyond that. Why should I pay for those things?


.

You are the master of making yourself look worse. I think I am less sympathetic to your beliefs than before I read that rant.

The plot twist is there was never point at which you were going to be sympathetic, nor am I asking you to be sympathetic either. I frankly don't care in the SLIGHTEST what someone like you thinks of me. Because it's clear we are worlds apart politically and in every sense of the word, metaphorically speaking. I don't need your sympathy, nor do I want it.

Actually, I think I've made my simple request quite clear: I am not a party to these issues, I am not guilty of these problems, so don't call me to account for them.

It's simple.

I’m pretty anti-cannabis, but you clearly could use some.

[/quote]

Tried it. Don't like it. Slows the brain.

By the way, you probably think I support these things, right?

No. Actually, I've come to feel that the entire settling of America was either a mistake, or at best horribly mismanaged morally and ethically. I understand from the point of view of the Europeans why they felt what they did was right - but at the same time, I don't think if I was alive in 1620 or so I could've owned a slave in good conscience.

What makes the whole story even more sad is that most of the people who ended up mistreating Natives or Blacks were deluded into doing so at the start by greedy moneymen who wanted this land for themselves, and someone to till it for them. Most of the actual Colonists were pretty unskilled, lazy, poor laborers who were exploited by their own people. Some of them even had sympathy for the Natives.

But as with many poor people, they were misled by rich men who sought to use them, and in their ignorance made able to believe that because "The Indians didn't use the land" that meant they had forfeited a moral and legal right to it. It's quite fascinating how the whole process developed. It's also sad.

As to African slavery, we know that from the beginning there were abolitionists. But African slavery was something that began among the Africans themselves, then spread to the Arab traders, than to the Portuguese, than the Spanish and the English and so on who made what was already an enterprise into a global trade.

Slavery was like a cancer, perpetuating itself over the centuries, until it became a fixed institution and global enterprise that only a few good souls questioned.

The only good thing about it (or slavery in any form, since slavery was with humanity from pretty much our dawn) is that it ended.

I recommend reading American Colonies by Alan Taylor. It gives good perspective on all these things.

[Higgins]

The Ferguson97 "New Racist" Perspective:

These racist anti-White screeds by Salon are completely correct. White people are literally killing us (I'm White so I'm killing myself). There is nothing wrong with viciously hateful headlines imposing collective guilt on an entire group of people who are entirely innocent in themselves solely on the basis of race and gender.

The Higgins "New Racist" Perspective:

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Some people are anti-White racist, so it doesn't matter if Trans people are shown by evidence to have legitimate issues. There is nothing wrong with viciously hateful treatment of Trans people who are entirely innocent in themselves simply because a group of people I don't like sticks up for them. Like my opponents I impose collective guilt.

The Common Sense Perspective that Everyone Used to Agree On When I Was a Young Man, and That I Somehow Still Hold:

Everyone is an individual and should be judged based on the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Racism is bad. As far as Trans issues, these should be resolved based on the weight of the scientific evidence as a matter of dispassionate debate and discussion in a free society.

That's actually a fair point and I will concede that you are correct, and I agree with your common sense perspective.