NFL fans boo kneeling athletes during moment of silence

[Former President tack50]

The complaint Minute Maid Juice is certainly a valid one. Some people do not like to see politics and sport combine. And yes the current protests are a political movement. Even if you think they are "clearly on the right side of history" (and they probably are); stuff like BLM is by its very nature political.

To be honest I find this particularly bizarre, as at least in Europe it is normally the other way around; with the players behaving in a mostly non-partisan way while the fans do the political stuff by raising flags, booing the national anthem and what not.

[DaleCooper]

We have established that it's OK for jocks to openly disrespect the American flag and what it represents to millions of Americans who's lives matter just as much as theirs.  The fans should have no less of a right to register THEIR disapproval.

These NFL jocks have no more right to be received uncritically than anyone else.

Just imagine how fans who have military members or law enforcement members feel at this.  Now you may not care, but your lack of caring does not minimize THEIR right to free expression.  They have shown disregard for their fans; indeed, they have even shown contempt.  That's their right, sanctioned by the NFL.  Let them be the big shots they are and accept the rights of others to return the contempt.

These NFL players have forfeited my respect.

It’s pretty telling that you think moment of silence for racial equality and unity is disrespectful to the troops and law enforcement

He's saying the quiet part out loud. The troops and law enforcement, in essence, are supposed to uphold and defend this country and what it stands for, but to people like him, this country is not supposed to stand for racial equality.

[tallguy23]

We have established that it's OK for jocks to openly disrespect the American flag and what it represents to millions of Americans who's lives matter just as much as theirs.  The fans should have no less of a right to register THEIR disapproval.

These NFL jocks have no more right to be received uncritically than anyone else.

Just imagine how fans who have military members or law enforcement members feel at this.  Now you may not care, but your lack of caring does not minimize THEIR right to free expression.  They have shown disregard for their fans; indeed, they have even shown contempt.  That's their right, sanctioned by the NFL.  Let them be the big shots they are and accept the rights of others to return the contempt.

These NFL players have forfeited my respect.

It’s pretty telling that you think moment of silence for racial equality and unity is disrespectful to the troops and law enforcement

Seriously. The military is also very diverse. They deserve racial equality too.

[Fuzzy Bear]

We have established that it's OK for jocks to openly disrespect the American flag and what it represents to millions of Americans who's lives matter just as much as theirs.  The fans should have no less of a right to register THEIR disapproval.

These NFL jocks have no more right to be received uncritically than anyone else.

Just imagine how fans who have military members or law enforcement members feel at this.  Now you may not care, but your lack of caring does not minimize THEIR right to free expression.  They have shown disregard for their fans; indeed, they have even shown contempt.  That's their right, sanctioned by the NFL.  Let them be the big shots they are and accept the rights of others to return the contempt.

These NFL players have forfeited my respect.

Do you even read before you post? This wasn’t even during the national anthem. It was a separate moment of silence having nothing to do with “the flag.”

It's fans with no respect for kneeing jocks making their voices heard.

What's wrong with that?  We have mobs going to the homes of ordinary people at late hours shouting"Wake up, MFet, wake up!" and your silence on that topic implies consent.  So why is this wrong in light of the other behavior?

Yes, not all the protests have been peaceful or civil. You can acknowledge that and still support the underlying goals of BLM, which are not motivated by Marxism or extreme ideologies.

The protest that was displayed by these athletes was, as jdb said, the very definition of patriotism. It was civil. It was nonviolent. But if you don't believe that people should be protesting racial inequality in this country within our justice system and policing practices, just say so.

I haven't seen a single post of yours that's not critical of any protest, regardless of whether it is peaceful one or not. If kneeling during a moment of silence before a football game is unacceptable to you, then how exactly should protests be carried out? Angry letters?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/barr-didnt-send-feds-to-michigan-because-anti-lockdown-protesters-were-actually-peaceful

Based on Jayapal's characterization, you would think that the anti-lockdown protesters were rebelling against a black governor and burning down the capital. But not only is Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer whiter than skim milk, the protesters were all completely peaceful and, when one tiny scuffle broke out between a handful of protesters, Michigan state police immediately broke up the fight. The protesters seemingly didn't violate the rules of the Michigan Statehouse, which is open to the public from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. The whole protest was over before noon. This is the most heated the protest ever got:

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests that receive equal criticism with those who protested Gov. Whitmer's lockdowns.  Protests where elected officials will not refrain from dishing out the same criticism for violating COVID-19 precautions.

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

Protests where those who agree with the aims of the protest condemn the lawless violence FROM THE START OF THE LAWLESSNESS and not wait untill Don Lemon warns them that they're hurting Biden in the polls.

Protests which the law-abiding abandon en masse when it is clear that each and every protest will be hijacked.

I'm all for those protests.  I'm not a protest kind of guy, personally.  I've gone on some Walk For Life events, but I'd walk away from such event if I saw that it was about to be hijacked by the Army of God or the Westboro Baptist Church.  I'm a peaceful man, in my protests, and in my life overall.

Scott, I'll ask you a question  Is it fair to say that there's absolutely NO excuse for any of the rioting, looting, and violence?  MLK set a high bar, but is it too much to ask for BLM to meet that bar?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Just so we’re all clear here Fuzzy is legitimately trying to argue that the guys who showed up at Michigan’s state house with guns and posters calling for the the governors murder are more peaceful then the nfl players locking arms and standing quiet for a minute

[Fuzzy Bear]

Just so we’re all clear here Fuzzy is legitimately trying to argue that the guys who showed up at Michigan’s state house with guns and posters calling for the the governors murder are more peaceful then the nfl players locking arms and standing quiet for a minute

And the wrongdoers were immediately arrested.  The police were allowed to fully enforce the law.  The protesters were (rightly or wrongly) admonished by public officials over COVID-19.

My point is not that they were more peaceful than the Kneelers.  My point is that they are INFINITELY more peaceful and more law-abiding than BLM and Antifa.  Compare the illegal activity and criminal violence in MI and compare it to Portland, Seattle, and Minnesota (for starters).

And Hindsight has not condemned the BLM violence yet.  I condemn the uses of swastikas and nooses, even as metaphors, btw.  The extent to which that actually happened is in dispute, but it was minimal.  But the wrongdoing of protesters in MI (which was truly minimal and promptly squelched by law enforcement) is trivial compared to wht BLM and Antifa have criminally done.  It's not the nobility of your cause when you're assembling; it's the peacefulness of your assembly that your right to protest is judged on.  It's when protests become violent that speech becomes conduct.

The criminal protesters need to be condemned.  They need to get the message that decent people do not support THEM and their movements. 

[Hindsight was 2020]

Fuzzy what do “BLM riots” have to do with these NFL players? It’s painfully obvious you’re making an argument that you view these players as the same as the rioters because they have some underlying goal which ironically give that thought process MLK is no different from the black panthers

[Fuzzy Bear]

This is why I have Fuzzy on ignore. I see enough of this sh**t on Facebook.

Football is a game of inches. Life isn't a game. "Shut up and play" is not even particularly thinly-veiled racism. Pro athletes, as public figures, have an amazing platform to raise awareness on the issue, and they're doing it. They're not protesting a few bad cops, or even just the police in general, they bringing awareness on how extensive America's race problems are. It's not a problem limited to a specific police department, government, political party, or indeed, country. Their actions, and in the opposite way, the disgraceful actions of some police officers, have finally started to bring some awareness to Americans (and around the world, too) on just what systemic racism is. Moving that football forward is more important than anything that happens in an NFL game.

As with any political movement or protest, there will be some extremists and anarchists who commit violence and other criminal acts. The only thing that can be done is to disown and condemn them. And even then, the crimes they are committing are nothing compared to the daily physical and psychological violence perpetrated on blacks by the state and the majority.

The disowning and condemning isn't happening.

The bulk of the physical and psychological violence perpetrated against blacks is perpetrated by other blacks, much of it gang-related violence in the most precarious neighborhoods.  This is a tale of numbers.  This is not to say that the issue of the use of force by police isn't a legitimate issue, and a legitimate issue in need of immediate action.  And it's also not so say that there are not a slew of systemic issues in criminal justice that ought to be immediately addressed.   I've posted about these issues here, and people know this.  But your last statement is hyperbole.  I'll leave it at that.

[MRS DONNA SHALALA]

Just so we’re all clear here Fuzzy is legitimately trying to argue that the guys who showed up at Michigan’s state house with guns and posters calling for the the governors murder are more peaceful then the nfl players locking arms and standing quiet for a minute

And the wrongdoers were immediately arrested.  The police were allowed to fully enforce the law.  The protesters were (rightly or wrongly) admonished by public officials over COVID-19.

My point is not that they were more peaceful than the Kneelers.  My point is that they are INFINITELY more peaceful and more law-abiding than BLM and Antifa.  Compare the illegal activity and criminal violence in MI and compare it to Portland, Seattle, and Minnesota (for starters).

And Hindsight has not condemned the BLM violence yet.  I condemn the uses of swastikas and nooses, even as metaphors, btw.  The extent to which that actually happened is in dispute, but it was minimal.  But the wrongdoing of protesters in MI (which was truly minimal and promptly squelched by law enforcement) is trivial compared to wht BLM and Antifa have criminally done.  It's not the nobility of your cause when you're assembling; it's the peacefulness of your assembly that your right to protest is judged on.  It's when protests become violent that speech becomes conduct.

The criminal protesters need to be condemned.  They need to get the message that decent people do not support THEM and their movements.  

You're right, the right-wing is totally peaceful:

https://twitter.com/lasseburholt/status/1303111487339278337

Anyway, I digress. This thread has nothing to do with Antifa or BLM boogeymen, it's about football players protesting peacefully for equal rights. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to condemn athletes using their position of power to make a brief, silent statement in support of equality, and it's not convincing anyone.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Just so we’re all clear here Fuzzy is legitimately trying to argue that the guys who showed up at Michigan’s state house with guns and posters calling for the the governors murder are more peaceful then the nfl players locking arms and standing quiet for a minute

And the wrongdoers were immediately arrested.  The police were allowed to fully enforce the law.  The protesters were (rightly or wrongly) admonished by public officials over COVID-19.

My point is not that they were more peaceful than the Kneelers.  My point is that they are INFINITELY more peaceful and more law-abiding than BLM and Antifa.  Compare the illegal activity and criminal violence in MI and compare it to Portland, Seattle, and Minnesota (for starters).

And Hindsight has not condemned the BLM violence yet.  I condemn the uses of swastikas and nooses, even as metaphors, btw.  The extent to which that actually happened is in dispute, but it was minimal.  But the wrongdoing of protesters in MI (which was truly minimal and promptly squelched by law enforcement) is trivial compared to wht BLM and Antifa have criminally done.  It's not the nobility of your cause when you're assembling; it's the peacefulness of your assembly that your right to protest is judged on.  It's when protests become violent that speech becomes conduct.

The criminal protesters need to be condemned.  They need to get the message that decent people do not support THEM and their movements.  

You're right, the right-wing is totally peaceful:

https://twitter.com/lasseburholt/status/1303111487339278337

Anyway, I digress. This thread has nothing to do with Antifa or BLM boogeymen, it's about football players protesting peacefully for equal rights. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to condemn athletes using their position of power to make a brief, silent statement in support of equality, and it's not convincing anyone.

Just admit you don't like black people and move along.

I don't like criminal violence in the streets of my Country.

If the Proud Boys did what BLM did, they'd be in jail the FIRST time.  And rightly so.  There would be zero tolerance for THEIR criminal behavior.  The police would NOT be told to stand down, and rightly so as well.

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos.  Perhaps if they were concerned about the lawlessness and criminality of BLM enough to disown them they'd be more respected.  But they're not.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Just so we’re all clear here Fuzzy is legitimately trying to argue that the guys who showed up at Michigan’s state house with guns and posters calling for the the governors murder are more peaceful then the nfl players locking arms and standing quiet for a minute

And the wrongdoers were immediately arrested.  The police were allowed to fully enforce the law.  The protesters were (rightly or wrongly) admonished by public officials over COVID-19.

My point is not that they were more peaceful than the Kneelers.  My point is that they are INFINITELY more peaceful and more law-abiding than BLM and Antifa.  Compare the illegal activity and criminal violence in MI and compare it to Portland, Seattle, and Minnesota (for starters).

And Hindsight has not condemned the BLM violence yet.  I condemn the uses of swastikas and nooses, even as metaphors, btw.  The extent to which that actually happened is in dispute, but it was minimal.  But the wrongdoing of protesters in MI (which was truly minimal and promptly squelched by law enforcement) is trivial compared to wht BLM and Antifa have criminally done.  It's not the nobility of your cause when you're assembling; it's the peacefulness of your assembly that your right to protest is judged on.  It's when protests become violent that speech becomes conduct.

The criminal protesters need to be condemned.  They need to get the message that decent people do not support THEM and their movements.  

You're right, the right-wing is totally peaceful:

https://twitter.com/lasseburholt/status/1303111487339278337

Anyway, I digress. This thread has nothing to do with Antifa or BLM boogeymen, it's about football players protesting peacefully for equal rights. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to condemn athletes using their position of power to make a brief, silent statement in support of equality, and it's not convincing anyone.

Just admit you don't like black people and move along.

I don't like criminal violence in the streets of my Country.

If the Proud Boys did what BLM did, they'd be in jail the FIRST time.  And rightly so.  There would be zero tolerance for THEIR criminal behavior.  The police would NOT be told to stand down, and rightly so as well.

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos.  Perhaps if they were concerned about the lawlessness and criminality of BLM enough to disown them they'd be more respected.  But they're not.

And MLK supporter the black panthers according to your logic

[Ferguson97]

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos. 

Just admit you hate black people already.

If you were living in the 1960s, you'd be criticizing MLK, Rosa Parks, and every civil rights activist.

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe you should add that quote to your signature, since you've decided that MLK is that bar that all those uppity ungrateful looters should reach.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos. 

Just admit you hate black people already.

If you were living in the 1960s, you'd be criticizing MLK, Rosa Parks, and every civil rights activist.

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe you should add that quote to your signature, since you've decided that MLK is that bar that all those uppity ungrateful looters should reach.

Fuzzy Bear did live in the 1960s and in 1972 he supported George McGovern. He also opposes DeSantis on felon voting

 

[Ferguson97]

Fuzzy Bear did live in the 1960s and in 1972 he supported George McGovern. He also opposes DeSantis on felon voting

 

How old is he?

[MRS DONNA SHALALA]

If the Proud Boys did what BLM did, they'd be in jail the FIRST time.  And rightly so.  There would be zero tolerance for THEIR criminal behavior.  The police would NOT be told to stand down, and rightly so as well.

That would explain why the white supremacist who instigated riots at several protests is behind bars right now - oh wait, no, he's not, the investigation seems to have petered out. Funny how that happens.

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos.

"The NFL players support an almost-entirely peaceful movement that aims to draw attention to the plight that black people suffer on a daily basis. I, obviously, do not support this goal, and would rather they be quiet and suffer in silence, and I will say anything to rhetorically defend this position of mine. I am very not-racist"

[Hindsight was 2020]

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos. 

Just admit you hate black people already.

If you were living in the 1960s, you'd be criticizing MLK, Rosa Parks, and every civil rights activist.

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe you should add that quote to your signature, since you've decided that MLK is that bar that all those uppity ungrateful looters should reach.

Fuzzy Bear did live in the 1960s and in 1972 he supported George McGovern. He also opposes DeSantis on felon voting

 

And Sanchez openly admits black people are mistreated by police despite him being a freak show of reactionary beliefs. Fuzzy has gone so far off the rails on this topic that if anyone who says they think racial profiling is bad means they support rioting

[OSR stands with Israel]

Fuzzy Bear did live in the 1960s and in 1972 he supported George McGovern. He also opposes DeSantis on felon voting

 

How old is he?

He said he was 17 in 1972 so he would be 65 today

[Fuzzy Bear]

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos. 

Just admit you hate black people already.

If you were living in the 1960s, you'd be criticizing MLK, Rosa Parks, and every civil rights activist.

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe you should add that quote to your signature, since you've decided that MLK is that bar that all those uppity ungrateful looters should reach.

Just how, exactly, were BLM doing that?

There is a difference between Civil Disobedience and criminal violence.  Rosa Parks was breaking an unjust law.  Those who sat in at lunch counters were breaking unjust laws.  What they were NOT doing was depriving OTHERS of their Constitutional Rights.

The folks at Atilis Gym today, though not for as crucial a cause, are resisting the unjust laws of New Jersey.  You may not agree with them, but they have not deprived a soul of a single Constitutional Right.

BLM and Antifa break JUST laws daily.  They destroy people's property.  They bully and harass people and threaten them with violence.  They violently act out on other people.  They burn buildings.  That's not breaking unjust laws; that's breaking just laws; things that simply cannot be legal in a civilized society.

Try again.

[SevenEleven]

If they booed them for kneeling during the anthem I would not have a problem but they should not have booed during a moment of silence

How is kneeling during the national anthem worse than booing during the national anthem?

[MRS DONNA SHALALA]

The NFL players support BLM.  They earned their boos.  

Just admit you hate black people already.

If you were living in the 1960s, you'd be criticizing MLK, Rosa Parks, and every civil rights activist.

What sort of protests would I approve of?

Protests where all obey the law, and when illegal activity is immediately quenched by the police.  Where police are not standing down and where the bad actors in the crowd get that message BEFORE the trouble.

“One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Maybe you should add that quote to your signature, since you've decided that MLK is that bar that all those uppity ungrateful looters should reach.

Just how, exactly, were BLM doing that?

There is a difference between Civil Disobedience and criminal violence.  Rosa Parks was breaking an unjust law.  Those who sat in at lunch counters were breaking unjust laws.  What they were NOT doing was depriving OTHERS of their Constitutional Rights.

"Having to watch a moment of silence during my sportsball game is a violation of my Constitutional rights!"

The folks at Atilis Gym today, though not for as crucial a cause, are resisting the unjust laws of New Jersey.  You may not agree with them, but they have not deprived a soul of a single Constitutional Right.

https://twitter.com/ClaireGForNJRep/status/1302466961973170179

No mask or social distancing in sight. Pretty sure infecting your peers with a life-threatening disease that has almost killed 200,000 people constitutes a violation of the whole "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" thing.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Again where did the NFL players break laws or riot?

[Fuzzy Bear]

The booing came when this came across the Jumbotron:



Now, again:  I, personally, would not boo.  But I'm not going to condemn people who are sick of being lectured by those who won't condemn criminal rioters.

These are, on their face, noble sentiments, but they are being delivered in a context where the mass of law-abiding citizens are being lectured to by the most noxious criminal protesters this country has seen in decades.  And the "We Believe Black Lives Matter" was a deliberate imprimatur.  People are rightly fed up being lectured to by people not shy about calling them as racists and deplorables at a sporting event which they paid good money to attend.  Yes, the sentiments are noble.  Yes, Black Lives DO Matter, and they haven't mattered enough.  But these people have seen BLM act as if THEIR lives don't matter at all.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Again where did the NFL players break laws or riot?

The NFL players refuse to disavow and condemn BLM and their criminal activities. 

People don't want to be lectured by people who condone violence on their own dime.  That's what happened last night. 

[Santander]

Since when is kneeling disrespectful?

[MRS DONNA SHALALA]

Again where did the NFL players break laws or riot?

The NFL players refuse to disavow and condemn BLM and their criminal activities. 

People don't want to be lectured by people who condone violence on their own dime.  That's what happened last night. 

From The US Crisis Monitor:

The vast majority of demonstration events associated with the BLM movement are non-violent (see map below). In more than 93% of all demonstrations connected to the movement, demonstrators have not engaged in violence or destructive activity. Peaceful protests are reported in over 2,400 distinct locations around the country.

And that's including the violence started by provocateurs like the Proud Boys or this guy.

Just because you find black people scary doesn't mean that it's backed by facts.