If Reagan stayed a Democrat
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darklordoftech
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« on: September 04, 2020, 03:01:51 PM »

What if Reagan stayed a Democrat?
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2020, 04:27:04 PM »

As Reagan put it, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the party left me," so for him to stay, the Democrats would presumably not be as liberally-dominated as they were in real life, which would have a big effect on partisan political alignments. The approach which Scoop Jackson was in favor of - domestic moderate-to-liberal politics, hawkishness abroad - would likely be much more mainstream (if not even dominant) within the Democratic Party.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2020, 08:44:35 PM »

If the Kennedys never got Killed, he might have stayed a D
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 11:55:38 AM »

As Reagan put it, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the party left me," so for him to stay, the Democrats would presumably not be as liberally-dominated as they were in real life, which would have a big effect on partisan political alignments. The approach which Scoop Jackson was in favor of - domestic moderate-to-liberal politics, hawkishness abroad - would likely be much more mainstream (if not even dominant) within the Democratic Party.

While the Democratic Party had undergone a LOT of changes between FDR and Reagan's rise to prominence, I do think that some of that quote was a bit of political acting on Reagan's part - he was a lot more liberal in rhetoric during his younger days, trashing basic tenants of conservative ideology that he would later champion.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2020, 12:06:45 PM »

While the Democratic Party had undergone a LOT of changes between FDR and Reagan's rise to prominence, I do think that some of that quote was a bit of political acting on Reagan's part - he was a lot more liberal in rhetoric during his younger days, trashing basic tenants of conservative ideology that he would later champion.

Any time anyone says "I didn't leave X party, X party left me" that person is automatically suspect in my opinion.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2020, 10:50:10 PM »
« Edited: September 11, 2020, 11:22:01 PM by Statilius the Epicurean »

While the Democratic Party had undergone a LOT of changes between FDR and Reagan's rise to prominence, I do think that some of that quote was a bit of political acting on Reagan's part - he was a lot more liberal in rhetoric during his younger days, trashing basic tenants of conservative ideology that he would later champion.

Any time anyone says "I didn't leave X party, X party left me" that person is automatically suspect in my opinion.

It's suspect if they immediately run to an opposing party and become a propagandist for them, as Reagan did.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 03:20:34 PM »

If Reagan had remained a Democrat he would have been a prominent Democrat for Nixon in 1972.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2020, 02:32:30 PM »

Reagan wouldn't have got into political office.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 08:45:25 PM »

The Democratic Party at one time was the more libertarian of the two major parties.  But then the meaning of "liberal" changed in American politics to not be the same as libertarian .  The Democratic Party remained liberal, but Reagan remained libertarian. At the same time, because big business sought more to protect itself from government than to make use of government as it had pre-Roosevelt, the Republican Party became more accommodating of libertarianism. So, without changing Reagan, for him to remain a Democrat requires both that the Democratic Party not abandon libertarianism and the Republican Party not try to bring libertarians into its tent.  I once began, but did not finish an alt hist timeline in which the Democrats changed as per OTL but the Republicans did not and Reagan became one of the founding stars of the Libertarian Party.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 09:27:01 PM »

The Democratic Party at one time was the more libertarian of the two major parties.  But then the meaning of "liberal" changed in American politics to not be the same as libertarian .  The Democratic Party remained liberal, but Reagan remained libertarian. At the same time, because big business sought more to protect itself from government than to make use of government as it had pre-Roosevelt, the Republican Party became more accommodating of libertarianism. So, without changing Reagan, for him to remain a Democrat requires both that the Democratic Party not abandon libertarianism and the Republican Party not try to bring libertarians into its tent.  I once began, but did not finish an alt hist timeline in which the Democrats changed as per OTL but the Republicans did not and Reagan became one of the founding stars of the Libertarian Party.
Reagan was still a Democrat in 1948.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2020, 03:12:14 PM »

The Democratic Party at one time was the more libertarian of the two major parties.  But then the meaning of "liberal" changed in American politics to not be the same as libertarian .  The Democratic Party remained liberal, but Reagan remained libertarian. At the same time, because big business sought more to protect itself from government than to make use of government as it had pre-Roosevelt, the Republican Party became more accommodating of libertarianism. So, without changing Reagan, for him to remain a Democrat requires both that the Democratic Party not abandon libertarianism and the Republican Party not try to bring libertarians into its tent.  I once began, but did not finish an alt hist timeline in which the Democrats changed as per OTL but the Republicans did not and Reagan became one of the founding stars of the Libertarian Party.
Reagan was still a Democrat in 1948.
And in 1948 the divergence between liberal and libertarian wasn't nearly what it would become. Business hadn't yet come to generally see government as more of a hindrance than a help. Also Reagan wasn't that political in the 1940s. It was the 1950s that saw Reagan switch from acting to politics.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2020, 12:36:33 AM »

Well let’s stop arguing about why he left the Democrats and just say for the sake of argument that he stayed one, with the party more or less the same regardless.

In that case, the 20th century could have looked very, very different, and the world today different as a result. Reagan was extremely charismatic, along with FDR easily one of the two most transformative and important presidents of that century, and I think that had he been a Democrat, history would have played out VERY differently. He I think was almost bound to end up as president one way or another at some point.

Let’s say that he remains a prominent Democrat throughout the 60s, endorsing LBJ instead of Goldwater and giving a powerful speech on his behalf that attracts national attention. Let’s say instead of challenging Pat Brown in 1966, he wins the California Senate election in 1968 as a Democrat. He then runs for president in 1976, assuming everything else more or less plays out the same, and has a good chance of winning the nomination and the presidency. The real question now is if s—t hits the fan as it did for Carter in real life. Does Reagan have better relations with Congress? (Likely, especially if he was a senator in this timeline.) Do things like the energy crisis and oil crisis play out similarly? Does Reagan’s charisma overcome these problems anyway, allowing him to be re-elected in 1980? If he loses, who’s it to? Probably not another arch-conservative Goldwater type like himself in OTL. Maybe Bush or Dole or something. That alone changes history.

Honestly I’ve thought about this quite a bit, it could go a number of interesting ways. Not sure if anyone’s done a timeline for it before.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2020, 07:32:04 PM »

The problem with that idea is why would Reagan giving a powerful speech in favor of LBJ bring him much attention in 1964? LBJ was so completely favored both in the primaries and the general election that no speech in favor of him, no matter how good, would bring attention to the orator. You'd either need to have Reagan do something meaningful in 1960 or 1968 if you want to have him remain a Democrat and rise to political prominence. Perhaps something like his "A Time for Choosing" speech but done in support of JFK in the 1960 Democratic primaries? Then perhaps Reagan defeats Kuchel in the 1962 Senate race? (Uness you think he'd try an intraparty contest against Brown in the gubernatorial contest?) Alternatively, Brown appoints Reagan instead of Sallinger to the Senate in 1964 after Engle dies, setting up an contest between two former SAG presidents in the full term 1964 election when he faces George Murphy. Assuming Reagan beats Murphy, a likely butterfly is that The Candidate is never made as that movie was reportedly inspired by Tummey's defeat of Murphy in 1970.

A senatorial career for Reagan sets up the possibility of a Carter/Reagan (or Reagan/Carter) ticket in 1976.

Yeah, the more I muse on this, if you want an interesting Democratic Reagan timeline, having him come to political prominence four years earlier than in OTL with a pro-Kennedy speech in 1960 is probably the way to go.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2020, 10:15:29 PM »

The problem with that idea is why would Reagan giving a powerful speech in favor of LBJ bring him much attention in 1964? LBJ was so completely favored both in the primaries and the general election that no speech in favor of him, no matter how good, would bring attention to the orator. You'd either need to have Reagan do something meaningful in 1960 or 1968 if you want to have him remain a Democrat and rise to political prominence. Perhaps something like his "A Time for Choosing" speech but done in support of JFK in the 1960 Democratic primaries? Then perhaps Reagan defeats Kuchel in the 1962 Senate race? (Uness you think he'd try an intraparty contest against Brown in the gubernatorial contest?) Alternatively, Brown appoints Reagan instead of Sallinger to the Senate in 1964 after Engle dies, setting up an contest between two former SAG presidents in the full term 1964 election when he faces George Murphy. Assuming Reagan beats Murphy, a likely butterfly is that The Candidate is never made as that movie was reportedly inspired by Tummey's defeat of Murphy in 1970.

A senatorial career for Reagan sets up the possibility of a Carter/Reagan (or Reagan/Carter) ticket in 1976.

Yeah, the more I muse on this, if you want an interesting Democratic Reagan timeline, having him come to political prominence four years earlier than in OTL with a pro-Kennedy speech in 1960 is probably the way to go.

Hmm yeah, interesting points. A point of divergence in 1960 might make more sense and be more interesting. Let’s say his campaigning for JFK actually is credited with delivering CA to him. Then he wins the governorship over Nixon in 1962 instead of Pat Brown. Then we could have an interesting situation where Reagan might even run as a Democrat as early as 1968, and end up facing Nixon again for the presidency.
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MATTROSE94
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2020, 10:03:30 PM »

If the Kennedys never got Killed, he might have stayed a D
Ronald Reagan switch political parties in 1952 and the last Democrat he voted for was Harry Truman in 1948. It would not surprise me if he started voting Republican down ballot in 1946 however.
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