The Atlantic: Trump called Dead Soldiers “losers”

[emailking]

Trump’s campaign literally just mocked Biden for visiting the graves of his first wife, young daughter, and son.

Republicans are horrible people.

Trump campaign director mocks Joe Biden as he visits family graves

Anyone care to defend this? 

Uggh. I think it's pretty low for a reporter to try and get a comment from him while he's walking through a cemetery.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Guys, Trump didn't want to go to the funeral, so the White House used weather as a reason because they couldn't put "president is an asshole" as a reason.

Of course the official documentation is going to reflect that.  That doesn't say anything about the veracity of the Atlantic story.  Anyone telling you otherwise is trying to take advantage of you and you should be insulted and stop trusting them.

The FOIA docs originate within the Navy, not the White House.  

Why would mid-level Naval officers be involved in a cover-up of the type you suggest?  They have no personal or professional allegiance or proximity to the President, and the White House involving them in a cover-up like you suggest just exponentially expands the number of people required to make such a cover-up possible (and the first rule of conspiracy is, of course, everything is always only on a “need to know” basis).

Just another left wing conspiracy theory, folks  

It's not a conspiracy.  The weather was bad in the first place.  That wasn't the actual reason why the president didn't want to go to the ceremony, but it was a plausible enough reason that it was what his people gave out.  And everyone else accepted it as the actual reason.

It's like, suppose my uncle across the country needs my help on something.  I think my uncle is an asshole and don't want to go visit him.  But I'm not going to put "uncle is an asshole" as my reason.  So I say "I can't go because I don't want to fly during COVID."  That's a plausible enough reason that everyone just accepts it.  But it's not the actual reason why I'm not going.  Now to extend the analogy, suppose I tell my girlfriend the actual reason.  Later on she tells a reporter.  A different reporter asks my uncle why I didn't go and he says "GMA said it was because of COVID" because he doesn't know the real reason.  None of this means the reporter my girlfriend talked to is making things up.  That's a direct analogy to how this story has developed.

[ProudModerate2]

Trump’s campaign literally just mocked Biden for visiting the graves of his first wife, young daughter, and son.
Republicans are horrible people.

Trump campaign director mocks Joe Biden as he visits family graves
Anyone care to defend this? 

This is really gross.
I don't really think it should be in this thread though. We should create a new thread exclusively for this story.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Trump’s campaign literally just mocked Biden for visiting the graves of his first wife, young daughter, and son.
Republicans are horrible people.

Trump campaign director mocks Joe Biden as he visits family graves
Anyone care to defend this? 

This is really gross.
I don't really think it should be in this thread though. We should create a new thread exclusively for this story.

Oh this is nothing. I fully expect Trump or one of his minions to say something flippant and insensitive about Biden's deceased family members at some point soon. Maybe in the debates.

[The Free North]

Trump remains the scum of the Earth.

[Wrong about 2024 Ghost]

Mr. Trump attacks the chain of command:
 
Trump accuses Pentagon leaders of wanting to 'fight wars' to make defense companies rich

President Donald Trump blasted the Pentagon’s leadership on Monday for allegedly caring about defense industry more than U.S. service members.

“I'm not saying the military's in love with me – the soldiers are,” the president said at a White House news conference. “The top people in the Pentagon probably aren't because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all of those wonderful companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make everything else stay happy.”

Trump also said that his desire to withdraw all U.S. troops from Syria now that the Islamic State no longer holds any territory has put him at odds with military leaders.

Meanwhile, back in reality, there's a long record about how Mr. Trump views his private mercenary force the United States' military. Some recent examples:
https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-interview-town-hall-fox-news-baier-maccallum-march-5-2020

We have an oil area in -- near Syria and in Syria, we kept it. So the only soldiers I have over there, they're guarding the oil...."

https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-speech-cpac-2020-national-harbor-maryland-february-29-2020/

And I did leave a number of soldiers because we kept the oil. There's oil there, and we kept the oil, if it's okay. So they say, "He left soldiers there." No, no, I left soldiers to keep the oil, okay?

https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-speech-kag-rally-las-vegas-nevada-february-21-2020/

.We kept it. So, they said he left soldiers in Syria. I did, to keep the oil if you don't mind, which is why we should have done in Iraq too, by the way. I would have done that and make it a lot of money with all that oil, but, you remember that whole thing, that whole, I said you got to find out Baghdadi....

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437?s=20
("WX" stands for "weather")

Nobody is questioning the inability to fly, and John Bolton's statement that flying in combat vs flying a dignitary are two very different missions is absolutely right. The Atlantic article focuses on Trump's disgraceful alleged comments, not the official reason for the cancellation.

The Atlantic article says it wasn't true that the helicopter couldn't fly there.  It's highlighted in the tweet lol

The document doesn't say that the helicopter could fly. It simply gives a weather forecast for the next day. What the weather was the next day and how that factored into the transportation options isn't given.

"bad weather call for today's lift"
"Weather will not support today's mission"

What do you think that means other than that the weather prevents the scheduled flight?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

John Bolton went on Fox News at gave his account of events
https://www.foxnews.com/media/john-bolton-denies-atlantic-report-trump-soliders-france

[emailking]

Gods of Prosperity, do you think that Goldberg is making up his claim that there are 4 sources telling him this, or do you think the sources are making it up?

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437?s=20
("WX" stands for "weather")

Nobody is questioning the inability to fly, and John Bolton's statement that flying in combat vs flying a dignitary are two very different missions is absolutely right. The Atlantic article focuses on Trump's disgraceful alleged comments, not the official reason for the cancellation.

Excellent find, Shua! Top-of-the-line military-grade helicopters are known to have tremendous problems flying in light to moderate rain.

Shua: "My Pulitzer, please!"

[Badger]

Well, here are the options. Either full or independent sources reported on buy a responsible longtime professional journalist are all independently lying, or this journalist decided to make up one of the most Rando stories ever because reasons, even though saying such a thing is completely and totally within the character of trump who is openly mocked John McCain's War record for getting shot down as being on heroic, belittled gold star parents for daring to oppose him, and belittle the service of an American Soldier killed fighting islamists in Africa to his own family right afterwards. Plus, taking the word of a man who is literally the most recidivist liar in the entire country, who again quite literally cannot go an entire hour without saying something patently false which he knows is untrue.

Or,.... What was the other side as to why this article would falsely report this Ohyeah, "reasons".

So far, the one scrap of evidence I find in Trump's favor is that Bolton's book does not mention this. However, it is entirely possible he was not present for that particular remark. I find it entirely possible, in fact likely, that maybe the trip was canceled because of weather problems, but Trump just couldn't help adding his sour grapes dig that it didn't matter he wouldn't be honoring the troops because and hurt his esteemed opinion they were losers.

[Badger]

Release the tapes or it didn't happen.

/thread

Oh please. If All four sources to be named in print tomorrow and none of you cultist Chumps would change your mind in the slightest.

If a tape came out the day afterwards, you would all Rush to his defense that he was taken out of context, Miss quoted, or the recording was possibly actually fabricated.

Is the day after that he went on TV and said hey I said it and those troops were losers, you would all pull the fuzzy move and defend him because fighting abortion, socialism, and the antifa / BLM is worth degrading yourself with Trump support regardless.

What pisses progressives off about Trump supporters more than anything is, if you took us back in time 5 years ago so we could see all the things Trump would do, we would Shake our heads and assume that are Trump supporters would be almost universally kicking themselves and Trump would be at about a 20% approval rating and easily dispatched 3 nomination. But no, there's just no ends and no bottom to what you're willing to stoop to defend an amoral scumbag who's a moral scumbaggery affects every aspect of his presidency, even when his incompetence and Ron adult-rated evil and Corruption isn't bothered to be hidden one iota, but rather screamed in our Collective faces every day almost every hour.

Bottom line, there is no limit to which you will deny reality, and no bottom to which you will not stoop, to defend Trump because reasons. Don't act like judement of character, or even basic reality itself, is on your side.

[7,052,770]

Three possibilites:

• The writer made this up out of thin air and got other established journalists, including 1 from Fox News, to go along with it.
• Former Trump employees lied about him, but in a way that none of these journalists were able to see through
• The story is true, and the current Trump employees are lying because their jobs depend on it.

Nothing's 100%, but you have to be a huge hack not to see that #3 is the most likely. The incentives just don't align as well for #1 and #2, and both require a large number of people to be sinister and/or grossly incompetent, even though there's no history suggesting that.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Three possibilites:

• The writer made this up out of thin air and got other established journalists, including 1 from Fox News, to go along with it.
• Former Trump employees lied about him, but in a way that none of these journalists were able to see through
• The story is true, and the current Trump employees are lying because their jobs depend on it.

Nothing's 100%, but you have to be a huge hack not to see that #3 is the most likely. The incentives just don't align as well for #1 and #2, and both require a large number of people to be sinister and/or grossly incompetent, even though there's no history suggesting that.

Most of these people are QAnon believers, so it's not hard for them to accept options 1 & 2.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

https://twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1301741080577298437?s=20
("WX" stands for "weather")

Nobody is questioning the inability to fly, and John Bolton's statement that flying in combat vs flying a dignitary are two very different missions is absolutely right. The Atlantic article focuses on Trump's disgraceful alleged comments, not the official reason for the cancellation.

Excellent find, Shua! Top-of-the-line military-grade helicopters are known to have tremendous problems flying in light to moderate rain.

Shua: "My Pulitzer, please!"

Are you saying the Marine in charge of making the weather call was lying or ??

[Santander]

I actually looked up the historical METARs (hourly weather reports, not forecasts) that day for Orly airport, and they absolutely back up that they couldn't have flown that day. The weather reports all day showed light rain and ranged between broken (5/8+ of the sky) and overcast (8/8 of the sky) cloud cover at 600-1100 ft. Very marginal conditions, at best. Plus, we have the power of hindsight, whereas the Marines had to make a judgment call based on available information at the time. Sure, Marines could have flown in that weather, but that's in combat or emergency situations.

So yeah, Goldberg was wrong in all but the most literal sense when he said the helicopter could fly. I must've slightly misread that part the first time. But that doesn't invalidate the rest of the story.

[Wazza]

Release the tapes or it didn't happen.

/thread

Oh please. If All four sources to be named in print tomorrow and none of you cultist Chumps would change your mind in the slightest.

If a tape came out the day afterwards, you would all Rush to his defense that he was taken out of context, Miss quoted, or the recording was possibly actually fabricated.

Is the day after that he went on TV and said hey I said it and those troops were losers, you would all pull the fuzzy move and defend him because fighting abortion, socialism, and the antifa / BLM is worth degrading yourself with Trump support regardless.

What pisses progressives off about Trump supporters more than anything is, if you took us back in time 5 years ago so we could see all the things Trump would do, we would Shake our heads and assume that are Trump supporters would be almost universally kicking themselves and Trump would be at about a 20% approval rating and easily dispatched 3 nomination. But no, there's just no ends and no bottom to what you're willing to stoop to defend an amoral scumbag who's a moral scumbaggery affects every aspect of his presidency, even when his incompetence and Ron adult-rated evil and Corruption isn't bothered to be hidden one iota, but rather screamed in our Collective faces every day almost every hour.

Bottom line, there is no limit to which you will deny reality, and no bottom to which you will not stoop, to defend Trump because reasons. Don't act like judement of character, or even basic reality itself, is on your side.

You are making a series of statements about me all of which are false and most of which are slanderous. I am not a Trump supporter (I don’t even live in America) and have repeatedly stated on this forum that I do not like the man. You can not like Trump and still be skeptical of unproven claims made about politicians posted in newspapers. If Fox News reported on a series of anonymous sources claiming Biden had said he wanted to screw a senator’s daughter, I would hold a similar degree of skepticism.

[Wazza]

Grow up and have a bit of nuance for f**ks sake. Most people I interact with my age (20-21) regardless of political orientation demonstrate more maturity than you, a 50something year old, and that’s honestly just embarrassing.

[R.P. McM]

Release the tapes or it didn't happen.

/thread

Oh please. If All four sources to be named in print tomorrow and none of you cultist Chumps would change your mind in the slightest.

If a tape came out the day afterwards, you would all Rush to his defense that he was taken out of context, Miss quoted, or the recording was possibly actually fabricated.

Is the day after that he went on TV and said hey I said it and those troops were losers, you would all pull the fuzzy move and defend him because fighting abortion, socialism, and the antifa / BLM is worth degrading yourself with Trump support regardless.

What pisses progressives off about Trump supporters more than anything is, if you took us back in time 5 years ago so we could see all the things Trump would do, we would Shake our heads and assume that are Trump supporters would be almost universally kicking themselves and Trump would be at about a 20% approval rating and easily dispatched 3 nomination. But no, there's just no ends and no bottom to what you're willing to stoop to defend an amoral scumbag who's a moral scumbaggery affects every aspect of his presidency, even when his incompetence and Ron adult-rated evil and Corruption isn't bothered to be hidden one iota, but rather screamed in our Collective faces every day almost every hour.

Bottom line, there is no limit to which you will deny reality, and no bottom to which you will not stoop, to defend Trump because reasons. Don't act like judement of character, or even basic reality itself, is on your side.

You are making a series of statements about me all of which are false and most of which are slanderous. I am not a Trump supporter (I don’t even live in America) and have repeatedly stated on this forum that I do not like the man. You can not like Trump and still be skeptical of unproven claims made about politicians posted in newspapers. If Fox News reported on a series of anonymous sources claiming Biden had said he wanted to screw a senator’s daughter, I would hold a similar degree of skepticism.

What would constitute "proof?" Epistemologically, you're currently at odds with every major news outlet that's examined the story, including Fox. Which is more of a propaganda network than an actual, legitimate source of information. So what's your standard? If you insist on being an inveterate skeptic, that's fine, but it does mean you can't comment on ~90% of the stories reported. If you're unwilling to abide by that standard — electronic recordings or nothing, essentially — then you need to be prepared to be called out on your blatant hypocrisy. Which, if we examined your comment history, I'm sure we'd find plentiful evidence of.

[Wazza]

Release the tapes or it didn't happen.

/thread

Oh please. If All four sources to be named in print tomorrow and none of you cultist Chumps would change your mind in the slightest.

If a tape came out the day afterwards, you would all Rush to his defense that he was taken out of context, Miss quoted, or the recording was possibly actually fabricated.

Is the day after that he went on TV and said hey I said it and those troops were losers, you would all pull the fuzzy move and defend him because fighting abortion, socialism, and the antifa / BLM is worth degrading yourself with Trump support regardless.

What pisses progressives off about Trump supporters more than anything is, if you took us back in time 5 years ago so we could see all the things Trump would do, we would Shake our heads and assume that are Trump supporters would be almost universally kicking themselves and Trump would be at about a 20% approval rating and easily dispatched 3 nomination. But no, there's just no ends and no bottom to what you're willing to stoop to defend an amoral scumbag who's a moral scumbaggery affects every aspect of his presidency, even when his incompetence and Ron adult-rated evil and Corruption isn't bothered to be hidden one iota, but rather screamed in our Collective faces every day almost every hour.

Bottom line, there is no limit to which you will deny reality, and no bottom to which you will not stoop, to defend Trump because reasons. Don't act like judement of character, or even basic reality itself, is on your side.

You are making a series of statements about me all of which are false and most of which are slanderous. I am not a Trump supporter (I don’t even live in America) and have repeatedly stated on this forum that I do not like the man. You can not like Trump and still be skeptical of unproven claims made about politicians posted in newspapers. If Fox News reported on a series of anonymous sources claiming Biden had said he wanted to screw a senator’s daughter, I would hold a similar degree of skepticism.

What would constitute "proof?" Epistemologically, you're currently at odds with every major news outlet that's examined the story, including Fox. Which is more of a propaganda network than an actual, legitimate source of information. So what's your standard? If you insist on being an inveterate skeptic, that's fine, but it does mean you can't comment on ~90% of the stories reported. If you're unwilling to abide by that standard — electronic recordings or nothing, essentially — then you need to be prepared to be called out on your blatant hypocrisy. Which, if we examined your comment history, I'm sure we'd find plentiful evidence of.

This is projection at its finest. Sorry Mr. McMong but not everyone participates in this troglodytic internet game you play. I don’t recall ever jumping on the Biden/Clinton accuser bandwagons and on a matter of principle have tended to stay clear of such discussions, but if you feel the need to dig through my comments and verify that then by all means.

[GeneralMacArthur]

This is projection at its finest. Sorry Mr. McMong but not everyone participates in this troglodytic internet game you play. I don’t recall ever jumping on the Biden/Clinton accuser bandwagons and on a matter of principle have tended to stay clear of such discussions, but if you feel the need to dig through my comments and verify that then by all means.

You know you're winning an argument when you ignore the post and resort to a bunch of non sequiter insults.

The fact is that you've suddenly created this artificial standard where you won't believe ANYTHING, no matter how verified, no matter how credible, if it's "unproven" (that is, there are no tapes).

So basically journalism should just cease to exist because the only way you'll ever believe something is if there's literally a recording or a video of it.  That's a ridiculous standard and we all know you don't actually follow it.  You're just pretending to for a week or so until this story blows over so you don't have to answer, either to us or to your own conscience, for this absolutely horrible thing your president believes.

[Wazza]

This is projection at its finest. Sorry Mr. McMong but not everyone participates in this troglodytic internet game you play. I don’t recall ever jumping on the Biden/Clinton accuser bandwagons and on a matter of principle have tended to stay clear of such discussions, but if you feel the need to dig through my comments and verify that then by all means.

You know you're winning an argument when you ignore the post and resort to a bunch of non sequiter insults.

The fact is that you've suddenly created this artificial standard where you won't believe ANYTHING, no matter how verified, no matter how credible, if it's "unproven" (that is, there are no tapes).

So basically journalism should just cease to exist because the only way you'll ever believe something is if there's literally a recording or a video of it.  That's a ridiculous standard and we all know you don't actually follow it.  You're just pretending to for a week or so until this story blows over so you don't have to answer, either to us or to your own conscience, for this absolutely horrible thing your president believes.

How is anything I said a non sequitar? My position on accusations such as these (or accusations made against other Republicans and Democrats) is that until sufficient evidence is brought forth that this incident occurred I do not take it seriously. An article reporting on what “anonymous sources” said is not a credible form of evidence no matter how you spin it. If I were to concede this then I would have to simply accept anything written by mainstream media firms in this particularly polarised and amoral climate provided they state they received it from an unnamed source, which I find awfully gullible.

Again, instead of making slanderous assumptions about me, how about you look through previous posts of mine and try to find an incidence of me jumping on an accusational bandwagon. I have been on this forum for some time and everyone familiar with me is aware I typically don’t engage in hackery. I will again state that I have voiced on this forum my dislike of Trump and much of the contemporary GOP, and I am not an American (so NO, Trump is NOT my President lol). Thus I have much less of a reason to be hackish and biased than you, a partisan Democrat. So spare me the bad faith proclamations.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This doesn't bode well for Trump's support among military families:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1304074021781286913

[Landslide Lyndon]

This doesn't bode well for Trump's support among military families:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1304074021781286913

55% of Americans live in an alternate universe.

[Santander]

This doesn't bode well for Trump's support among military families:

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1304074021781286913

TBF, Joe would always have the edge because Beau served in Iraq. (of course, Hunter had a rather ignominious military "career", but that's not really on Joe)