Kerry is NOT the most liberal senator

[pieman]

I agree that it is unfair to say that Kerry is the most liberal senator of all time based on one organization's review of one year's votes.

It is fair to say that "According to a liberal rating organization, Kerry's most recent voting places him as the most liberal Senator."

It does appear beyond much dispute that no more than 15 senators could be considered more liberal than Kerry.

Since there are 100 senators, on a scale of 1 to 100 with 1 being the most liberal and 100 being the most conservative Kerry is about 15.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 5 being neutral, Kerry is at best a 2.

 

[classical liberal]

However, all ratings systems attempt to compile the two dimensions of political spectra into one spectrum, and therefore are all moot.

Going by fiscal matters, where the conservative and liberal terms are actually applicable, Kerry is probably around a 25%. This is mainly because he either voted against or abstained from voting for the profligate appropriations of the past few years, but has consistantly voted pro-entitlement and in the years before 1992 voted for many profligate expenditures.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

I agree that it is unfair to say that Kerry is the most liberal senator of all time based on one organization's review of one year's votes.

It is fair to say that "According to a liberal rating organization, Kerry's most recent voting places him as the most liberal Senator."

It does appear beyond much dispute that no more than 15 senators could be considered more liberal than Kerry.

Since there are 100 senators, on a scale of 1 to 100 with 1 being the most liberal and 100 being the most conservative Kerry is about 15.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 5 being neutral, Kerry is at best a 2.

 

The National Journal is not a liberal organization...they are non-partisan, and I don't think anyone even accuses them of being liberal.  Also, their ratings showed that Kerry was most likely to oppose the president, not that he was most liberal.

I think you're rating of Kerry among the Senators is about right.  However, all the Democrats in the Senate are fairly conservative compared to the general party membership or even the House membership.  Its still a bunch of old white men.

[classical liberal]

The 108th senate consists of:

83 White men
14 White women
1 Native American man
2 Pacific Islander men

[pieman]

I agree that it is unfair to say that Kerry is the most liberal senator of all time based on one organization's review of one year's votes.

It is fair to say that "According to a liberal rating organization, Kerry's most recent voting places him as the most liberal Senator."

It does appear beyond much dispute that no more than 15 senators could be considered more liberal than Kerry.

Since there are 100 senators, on a scale of 1 to 100 with 1 being the most liberal and 100 being the most conservative Kerry is about 15.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 5 being neutral, Kerry is at best a 2.

 

The National Journal is not a liberal organization...they are non-partisan, and I don't think anyone even accuses them of being liberal.  Also, their ratings showed that Kerry was most likely to oppose the president, not that he was most liberal.

I think you're rating of Kerry among the Senators is about right.  However, all the Democrats in the Senate are fairly conservative compared to the general party membership or even the House membership.  Its still a bunch of old white men.

I was referring to ACU, not NJ, but in either event, my assumption was that ACU (or NJ) was an organization determining a liberal rating.

In any event, I will change my quote to
"According to a rating organization, Kerry's most recent voting places him as the most liberal Senator."

 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

ACU is actually a conservative rating organization

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The 108th senate consists of:

83 White men
14 White women
1 Native American man
2 Pacific Islander men

I think this will fortunately be the LAST Senate without any blacks or Hispanics...next year we'll have Obama and Salazar (and possibly Martinez in FL), and them maybe Harold Ford from TN in 2006.  Both Obama and Ford could be in the Senate a LONG time.

[12th Doctor]

Note that the actual location of the dot is not accurate, only in comparison of the other dots does it mean something

Went through a couple based on positions rather than the voting record.

John Kerry:


Barbara Boxer:


Ted Kennedy:


Jon Corzine:

That's great, look at Ralph Nader.  If I'm not mistaken, he is less liberal than Kerry, but more populist!!!!!  Who cares if Kerry is the Most Liberal or the 5 most Liberal?  The point is that he is damn liberal.  To damn Liberal for America.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Note that the actual location of the dot is not accurate, only in comparison of the other dots does it mean something

Went through a couple based on positions rather than the voting record.

John Kerry:


Barbara Boxer:


Ted Kennedy:


Jon Corzine:

That's great, look at Ralph Nader.  If I'm not mistaken, he is less liberal than Kerry, but more populist!!!!!  Who cares if Kerry is the Most Liberal or the 5 most Liberal?  The point is that he is damn liberal.  To damn Liberal for America.

and Bush is too conservative for America.

and the point is people should not say he is the most liberal senator, like they have on this board before. Nothing more.

[opebo]

The 108th senate consists of:

83 White men
14 White women
1 Native American man
2 Pacific Islander men

I think this will fortunately be the LAST Senate without any blacks or Hispanics...next year we'll have Obama and Salazar (and possibly Martinez in FL), and them maybe Harold Ford from TN in 2006.  Both Obama and Ford could be in the Senate a LONG time.

Obama maybe.  Salazar I doubt.  Certainly Ford will never make it from Tennessee.  

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

[12th Doctor]

The 108th senate consists of:

83 White men
14 White women
1 Native American man
2 Pacific Islander men

I think this will fortunately be the LAST Senate without any blacks or Hispanics...next year we'll have Obama and Salazar (and possibly Martinez in FL), and them maybe Harold Ford from TN in 2006.  Both Obama and Ford could be in the Senate a LONG time.

Obama maybe.  Salazar I doubt.  Certainly Ford will never make it form Tennessee.  

Herman Cain in Georgia as well.

Has anyone seen a poll on the Cain race, by the way?

[12th Doctor]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

Well I certainly know that I never said this.  I know that he was acctually rated the most liberal one or two years.  His voting record is more liberal than Ted Kennedy's (Kennedy actually intruduced him as such once in the primary campaign if I recall) but I never said he was the most liberal (period).

Well, maybe I did, but I didn't really mean it.  But hen again I don't remember if I did ever say such a thing.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

Well I certainly know that I never said this.  I know that he was acctually rated the most liberal one or two years.  His voting record is more liberal than Ted Kennedy's (Kennedy actually intruduced him as such once in the primary campaign if I recall) but I never said he was the most liberal (period).

Well, maybe I did, but I didn't really mean it.  But hen again I don't remember if I did ever say such a thing.

if his record is more liberal than Kennedy's why can't anyone bring up a single vote where he voted to the left of Kennedy?

and yes, he was rated most liberal last year. I've already explained why in the opening post. That year was a poor judge of his record.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

here's one example from Rococo4. And there are probably many others if you look: http://www.uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2320;start=msg71855

*waits for the next idiot to completely miss the point of the thread and scream "I don't care if he's the most liberal, he's just too liberal period"*

[12th Doctor]

what the case, let me just restate the point of this thread and hope it finally gets through:

DON'T SAY KERRY IS THE MOST LIBERAL SENATOR

that's it. nothing more nothing less. say he's too liberal for you fine. But don't say he is the single most liberal like some here have. that's all.

Well I certainly know that I never said this.  I know that he was acctually rated the most liberal one or two years.  His voting record is more liberal than Ted Kennedy's (Kennedy actually intruduced him as such once in the primary campaign if I recall) but I never said he was the most liberal (period).

Well, maybe I did, but I didn't really mean it.  But hen again I don't remember if I did ever say such a thing.

if his record is more liberal than Kennedy's why can't anyone bring up a single vote where he voted to the left of Kennedy?

and yes, he was rated most liberal last year. I've already explained why in the opening post. That year was a poor judge of his record.

No, he was also rated most liberal in 1993 or 1994 or something like that.  Anyway, it is hard to pinpoint a Senate vote like that because most legislative votes are on small issues, not huge ones.

[CARLHAYDEN]

First, different organizations use different votes in their analysis.

Second, some organizations weight particular votes.

Third, lifetime votes are a little suspect, since members to not serve for the same periods.

Fourth, Americans for Democratic Action (a liberal group) gives Kerry a higher liberal lifetime voting record than Kennedy.  Check it out at:

www.adaaction.ord/lifetimesenmassachusetts.html.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

The 108th senate consists of:

83 White men
14 White women
1 Native American man
2 Pacific Islander men

I think this will fortunately be the LAST Senate without any blacks or Hispanics...next year we'll have Obama and Salazar (and possibly Martinez in FL), and them maybe Harold Ford from TN in 2006.  Both Obama and Ford could be in the Senate a LONG time.

Obama maybe.  Salazar I doubt.  Certainly Ford will never make it form Tennessee.  

Herman Cain in Georgia as well.

Has anyone seen a poll on the Cain race, by the way?

Isakson was way up in the last poll I saw, but that was about 2 months ago.  It was like 50% for Isakson, and 20% for each of Cain and Collins.

[Lunar]

Your link doesn't work Carl.

[CARLHAYDEN]

try,

http://www.adaaction.org/lifetime.senmassachusetts.html

ADA shows Kerry with a lifetime 92, and Kennedy with 90

[angus]

try,

http://www.adaaction.org/lifetime.senmassachusetts.html

ADA shows Kerry with a lifetime 92, and Kennedy with 90

www.adaaction.org isn't a contactable URL for me either.

[angus]

remove one of the a's in adaaction

try www.adaction.org

that works.

[CARLHAYDEN]

thanks,

sorry about the typo.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

but the ACU gives Kennedy a 3 and Kerry a 5. And Kennedy has had a much longer career, and in early ADA ratings, the average ratings were much lower. Don't know why. it'd be interesting to see what Kennedy's score is for only when Kerry is in office.

[CARLHAYDEN]

To give you an idea of the few votes which Kerry has cast different from Kennedy which the ACU counted as "conservative"

On June 4, 2003, Kerry voted to continue Military Base Closings (HR 1588, RC 205), which the people at the ACU decided to consider a "conservative" position.  Like many conservatives, I think the ACU was nuts on this one.

On May 23, 2002, Kerry voted to give the President authority to fast track trade deals with South American nations (HR 3009, RC 130).  I know that Pat Buchanan was opposed to this one.  

On November 11, 2002, Kerry voted for the Use of Force Against Iraq resolution (SR 114, RC 237).  According to reliable sources from Kerry's office, his reason for the vote at the time was to save his political viablity for the Presidential race.  Kerry has since been very ambivalent about his vote.

So, the so-called "conservative" votes of Kerry are either not so conservative or just plain opportunist.