HR 25-09: Federal Initiative System Amendment (Final Vote)

[Mike Thick]

AN AMENDMENT
to the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia

Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives, in Congress assembled:

Section 1 (Title)
i. The title of this Amendment shall be, the “Federal Initiative System Amendment.” It may be cited by its ordinal number in order of ratification.

Section 2 (Federal Initiative System Amendment)
i. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. All legislative powers herein granted shall be derived from the people, who ordinarily vest this power vested in the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives.
2. The Vice President shall be the President of the Congress, but shall have no vote in the House of Representatives, nor in the Senate save when they be equally divided.

ii. Article II, Section 5 of the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. Legislation may ordinarily originate in either house, and both houses shall reserve the right to propose and concur with amendments; but all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives.

2. Whenever either house shall vote to pass a bill, order, or resolution that shall have originated in the other, having previously made amendment to the same, the President of the Congress shall immediately call the amended bill to a vote in the house in which it originated. If the original house should then vote to pass the amended bill, it shall proceed to the President; otherwise, the President of the Congress shall instruct the other house either to pass the bill as it stood prior to its amendment by that house, or else reject it entirely.

3. Every bill, order, or resolution which shall have passed the Senate and the House of Representatives shall, before it becomes law, be submitted to the judgment of the President. If they approve of it they should sign it; but if they disapproves they should return the bill to the house in which it originated with their objections. If, after considering the objections of the President, both houses should by a 2/3 vote agree to pass the same bill, it shall become law regardless of the President's objections.If any bill, order, or resolution shall not be returned by the President within ten days after it has been presented to him, the bill shall become law.

4. If so specified in the text of the bill, order or resolution in question, the bill may be required to pass a national referendum before its enactment. In that case, the person responsible for the management of federal elections shall be duly notified and organize a national referendum at a date specified by the Congress in the text of the bill, order or resolution; or during the next federal election, whichever happens sooner. If no date for the referendum is specified in the text of the bill, order or resolution; it shall be assumed that the referendum is to take place alongside the next federal election.

5. The People of the Republic of Atlasia shall reserve themselves the power to directly introduce legislation. Any citizen of the Republic of Atlasia shall have the right to post a bill in the Atlas Fantasy Elections board, clearly specifying that the post in question is a bill to be submitted as a National Legislative Initiative. If this Legislative Initiative gets signatures representing 10% of the voters at the last federal election and accounting for 5% of the last Federal Census within 10 days from its introduction; the Legislative Initiative shall be considered to be accepted. Otherwise it shall be considered to be rejected.

6. Legislative Initiatives considered to be accepted shall be duly taken note of by the person responsible for Federal Elections. The person responsible for Federal Elections shall take a public note of this in their office thread, and open a vote on the initiative in question alongside the next federal election.

7. Any Initiatives introduced by the people of the Republic of Atlasia shall not exceed the ordinary powers of the Congress.

8. Initiatives introduced by the people of the Republic of Atlasia may not deal with the following subjects:
a) Constitutional Amendments of any kind
b) The Federal Budget


9. Any national referendums shall be considered to have passed if a simple majority of voters votes in favour of the bill, order, resolution or initiative in question.

10. Any national referendums shall be operated under the same rules as federal elections for the Presidency of the Republic of Atlasia

Section 3: Explanation
1. This amendment allows the people of the Republic of Atlasia to directly introduce legislation and submit it to a national referendum. This amendment also allows the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia to divert pieces of legislation to a national referendum if it finds it is in the national interest.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 4-2 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Sponsor: Muad’dib
House Designation: HR 25-09

72 hours to debate.

[Mike Thick]

Looking for a sponsor. Preferably on the sooner side.

[SevenEleven]

I probably shouldn't sponsor, as there is absolutely zero chance I will be voting for this.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

I will Sponsor.

[Former President tack50]

Adding an amendment that I discussed with Yankee in the Senate and on Discord. This adds a soft restriction on spending to the initiatives, similar to the scrapped PayGo rules that used to be in place.

Though a hard restriction of no spending or money appropiation whatsoever is possible so it is the choice of the House in that regard

AN AMENDMENT
to the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia

Be it enacted by the Senate and the House of Representatives, in Congress assembled:

Section 1 (Title)
i. The title of this Amendment shall be, the “Federal Initiative System Amendment.” It may be cited by its ordinal number in order of ratification.

Section 2 (Federal Initiative System Amendment)
i. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. All legislative powers herein granted shall be derived from the people, who ordinarily vest this power vested in the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia, which shall consist of a Senate and a House of Representatives.
2. The Vice President shall be the President of the Congress, but shall have no vote in the House of Representatives, nor in the Senate save when they be equally divided.

ii. Article II, Section 5 of the Constitution of the Republic of Atlasia shall be amended as follows:

1. Legislation may ordinarily originate in either house, and both houses shall reserve the right to propose and concur with amendments; but all bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives.

2. Whenever either house shall vote to pass a bill, order, or resolution that shall have originated in the other, having previously made amendment to the same, the President of the Congress shall immediately call the amended bill to a vote in the house in which it originated. If the original house should then vote to pass the amended bill, it shall proceed to the President; otherwise, the President of the Congress shall instruct the other house either to pass the bill as it stood prior to its amendment by that house, or else reject it entirely.

3. Every bill, order, or resolution which shall have passed the Senate and the House of Representatives shall, before it becomes law, be submitted to the judgment of the President. If they approve of it they should sign it; but if they disapproves they should return the bill to the house in which it originated with their objections. If, after considering the objections of the President, both houses should by a 2/3 vote agree to pass the same bill, it shall become law regardless of the President's objections.If any bill, order, or resolution shall not be returned by the President within ten days after it has been presented to him, the bill shall become law.

4. If so specified in the text of the bill, order or resolution in question, the bill may be required to pass a national referendum before its enactment. In that case, the person responsible for the management of federal elections shall be duly notified and organize a national referendum at a date specified by the Congress in the text of the bill, order or resolution; or during the next federal election, whichever happens sooner. If no date for the referendum is specified in the text of the bill, order or resolution; it shall be assumed that the referendum is to take place alongside the next federal election.

5. The People of the Republic of Atlasia shall reserve themselves the power to directly introduce legislation. Any citizen of the Republic of Atlasia shall have the right to post a bill in the Atlas Fantasy Elections board, clearly specifying that the post in question is a bill to be submitted as a National Legislative Initiative. If this Legislative Initiative gets signatures representing 10% of the voters at the last federal election and accounting for 5% of the last Federal Census within 10 days from its introduction; the Legislative Initiative shall be considered to be accepted. Otherwise it shall be considered to be rejected.

6. Legislative Initiatives considered to be accepted shall be duly taken note of by the person responsible for Federal Elections. The person responsible for Federal Elections shall take a public note of this in their office thread, and open a vote on the initiative in question alongside the next federal election.

7. Any Initiatives introduced by the people of the Republic of Atlasia shall not exceed the ordinary powers of the Congress.

8. Initiatives introduced by the people of the Republic of Atlasia may not deal with the following subjects:
a) Constitutional Amendments of any kind
b) The Federal Budget

9. All citizen introduced initiatives appropriating money must either raise taxes or cut other spending to cover the costs of the appropriations contained therein. This restriction shall not be applied to regular bills introduced by and passed by the House of Representatives and/or the Atlasian Senate.

10. Any national referendums shall be considered to have passed if a simple majority of voters votes in favour of the bill, order, resolution or initiative in question.

11. Any national referendums shall be operated under the same rules as federal elections for the Presidency of the Republic of Atlasia

Section 3: Explanation
1. This amendment allows the people of the Republic of Atlasia to directly introduce legislation and submit it to a national referendum. This amendment also allows the Congress of the Republic of Atlasia to divert pieces of legislation to a national referendum if it finds it is in the national interest.

This is basically so that we can avoid the "California problem" of citizens hypothetically just raising spending, lowering taxes and then leaving Congress to pay for their bills. This is a soft restriction like the old PayGo rules, but a hard restriction of no money appropiation whatsoever is certainly possible.

I also made sure that said restriction will not apply to regular bills passed by Congress.

[Mike Thick]

Muad’dib is recognized as sponsor. 24 hours for his advocacy, as well as to object to tack’s amendment (which I can sponsor).

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Fellow Representatives,

For the context and intent of this bill, I shall quote the Senator from the great region of the South:

"...we do not have much interest in policy or issue based concerns in the general public. My hope is some element of direct public engagement in legislating might cause that situation to change in some positive way.

I don't think the game is long sustainable as being overwhelmingly dominated by massive armies of disengaged discord zombies."

So essentially this bill is designed to provide a easier way for citizens to participate more directly in the legislative process. I hope that representatives from all sides can see the value that such a bill could have for a more open form of government and engaged citizenry. Representatives I commend to you this bill, HR 25-09: Federal Initiative System Amendment.

[SevenEleven]

The legislature ceding its own power to an initiative process is worse for the game. It basically would enable everyone to blindly vote for their party while retaining tools to accomplish individual policy goals by other means. Whomever gets elected to the House and Senate should be meaningful and impactful. I've always run an issues-based campaign. This amendment makes doing so much more difficult.

The process as currently described also circumvents one of the most important parts of our political dialogue, as it doesn't provide for organized debate and potential amending. Much proposed legislation is made better by the input of multiple elected Representatives working together. Taking that away does everyone a disservice.

[Joseph Cao]

I fully agree with my honorable colleague above. This essentially allows one person to ram through a bill without offering the opportunity for others to offer feedback or amendments for improvement, and it would be a massive step backward for our legislative process. Furthermore, there is no indication that legislation passed according to this system could subsequently be addressed or revoked by congressional means. Why in the world is that? How does Atlasia benefit from Congress having less input on certain bills than everyone not in Congress?

I am also very skeptical that this amendment will do anything to meaningfully address or reverse the disengagement in our national discourse. I have nothing against the referendum process but regional referenda are already dominated by zombies who vote on them without bothering to read through or comprehend their contents. Consider me unconvinced that translating this to a national level does anything more than place the fate of the entire legislative process for a bill in the hands of whoever controls a larger number of zombie voters.

Anyway, I will certainly not be voting for the bill as it currently stands and I don't see a plausible avenue for better amendment at present.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I will note that my words are being cited as advocacy but at the same time if this thing is not amended then this should be voted down.

[SevenEleven]

I move for a final vote.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

I will note that my words are being cited as advocacy but at the same time if this thing is not amended then this should be voted down.

Fellow Representatives, I should have mentioned I am in favor of the amended version. The intent of this bill has merits. I understand the concerns of the Honorable Reps who have spoken on this bill have raised. I do note that the proposed amendments do not fully alleviate those concerns.

[Former President tack50]

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

I move for a final vote.

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

I object to a final vote.

[Mike Thick]

Oh, the amendment is adopted. Sorry.

I’d like to see some more debate on this, but if there isn’t anything by like tonight we’ll start a vote on the cloture motion.

[SevenEleven]

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

I don't believe any Representative has proposed your amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

I don't believe any Representative has proposed your amendment.

Unless something has changed since I was Speaker two years ago, only sitting members may offer amendments meaning I am at a loss for what Ted is declaring to be adopted at this juncture.

[Mike Thick]

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

I don't believe any Representative has proposed your amendment.

Unless something has changed since I was Speaker two years ago, only sitting members may offer amendments meaning I am at a loss for what Ted is declaring to be adopted at this juncture.

Well, I agreed to sponsor the amendment and nobody objected

as well as to object to tack’s amendment (which I can sponsor).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

It's way too early to call for a final vote? Shouldn't at the very least the amendment be processed first?

I don't believe any Representative has proposed your amendment.

Unless something has changed since I was Speaker two years ago, only sitting members may offer amendments meaning I am at a loss for what Ted is declaring to be adopted at this juncture.

Well, I agreed to sponsor the amendment and nobody objected

as well as to object to tack’s amendment (which I can sponsor).

House members seem to have been confused.

Might want to separate out double motions to at least different lines if not different posts if this problem continues.

[Mike Thick]

Alright. A vote is now open on whether to end debate on this legislation. Members will have 72 hours to vote, or 24 hours from whenever the measure attains majority support or opposition. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.

In the future (meaning for the rest of the week lol) I'll split procedural actions onto separate lines so this doesn't happen again.

[SevenEleven]

Aye

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

Aye

[Joseph Cao]

Aye.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

I vote Nay, as I think it would be beneficial for the house to have input from the rest of the people's representatives.

[Gracile]

Aye