(Christians only) Is sodomy a sinful behavior?

[1978 New Wave skinny trousers]

I mean tcumsa's dirge aside, this is a ridiculous poll and flat out offensive to people to whom it forms part of their own sex life, that it even gets asked as a semi serious question. I'm admittedly in a pissy mood for other reasons today but I'm sick of these sorts of judgement polls on this board in particular.

Well, the reason it's a semi-serious question is because religious leaders have made it so. Complain to them, not me. I don't think it should be an issue either, but sadly I'm not able to control those things. Given that, I don't see what's wrong with polling Atlas on a topic like this that has often proved divisive among Christians.

Because you sound like your intention is to ignite flames, like a guy who brings up some painful past episode at a dinner with friends just to see them have a row.

Well any sort of topic started on a political forum might be expected to ignite a debate, especially one that involves religion and strongly-held personal beliefs. But the fact is there hasn't even been much in this thread; there seems to be a general agreement among those who have posted in it. And I wouldn't say it's a past episode either; despite gay marriage being legalized 5 years ago many denominations like the Catholics and lots of evangelicals remain opposed to homosexuality. But if people would prefer that I delete the thread I'll gladly do so.

I mean tcumsa's dirge aside, this is a ridiculous poll and flat out offensive to people to whom it forms part of their own sex life, that it even gets asked as a semi serious question. I'm admittedly in a pissy mood for other reasons today but I'm sick of these sorts of judgement polls on this board in particular.

Well, the reason it's a semi-serious question is because religious leaders have made it so. Complain to them, not me. I don't think it should be an issue either, but sadly I'm not able to control those things. Given that, I don't see what's wrong with polling Atlas on a topic like this that has often proved divisive among Christians.

Because you sound like your intention is to ignite flames, like a guy who brings up some painful past episode at a dinner with friends just to see them have a row.

Perhaps that is why the average poster comes to this site (whether they are willing to admit it or not).

I mean it is a politics-related Internet forum, so what should you expect but disagreements? (though I haven't seen anyone unironically argue for Yes in the thread despite the poll results). That said I didn't expect to anger people by making this thread so I'm sorry if I did.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I'm not angry that you made the thread, but using the word "sodomy" is a bit of a poison pill. It's a word that's been used in such violent (physically violent, not just violent in the sense of inflicting grievous psychic or symbolic harms, which in this case would be bad enough imo) ways in the past that bringing it up in a context like this would set any reasonable LGBT person's teeth on edge.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

I mean tcumsa's dirge aside, this is a ridiculous poll and flat out offensive to people to whom it forms part of their own sex life, that it even gets asked as a semi serious question. I'm admittedly in a pissy mood for other reasons today but I'm sick of these sorts of judgement polls on this board in particular.

Well, the reason it's a semi-serious question is because religious leaders have made it so. Complain to them, not me. I don't think it should be an issue either, but sadly I'm not able to control those things. Given that, I don't see what's wrong with polling Atlas on a topic like this that has often proved divisive among Christians.

Because you sound like your intention is to ignite flames, like a guy who brings up some painful past episode at a dinner with friends just to see them have a row.

Well any sort of topic started on a political forum might be expected to ignite a debate, especially one that involves religion and strongly-held personal beliefs. But the fact is there hasn't even been much in this thread; there seems to be a general agreement among those who have posted in it. And I wouldn't say it's a past episode either; despite gay marriage being legalized 5 years ago many denominations like the Catholics and lots of evangelicals remain opposed to homosexuality. But if people would prefer that I delete the thread I'll gladly do so.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but "past episode" was strictly referring to my metaphor. I wasn't implying that the scope of the poll is an issue of the past.
Also it's obvious that every topic started will ignite a debate, but there are debates and debates. As Nathan said, the way you framed this is not conducive to a good discussion (and indeed, this thread is kind of a sh**tshow).

[1978 New Wave skinny trousers]

The reason I used "sodomy" instead of homosexuality is because I wanted to be clear that I was referring to the acts themselves rather than sexual orientations. Because the argument I often see religious people make is that it is the acts that are sinful, but merely being attracted to one sex or the other isn't. I also thought it would allow for a more historical discussion of the concept and Christian views on it, as the idea of homosexuality is much more recent but the story of Sodom and Gomorrah goes back to the Bible itself.

But all that said, yes, I was aware that the word has often been used in hateful ways but I used it anyway because I thought it would better communicate what I was trying to ask about. It was a mistake on my part and I'm sorry if anyone was hurt by it, as it was not my intention.

[afleitch]

The reason I used "sodomy" instead of homosexuality is because I wanted to be clear that I was referring to the acts themselves rather than sexual orientations. Because the argument I often see religious people make is that it is the acts that are sinful, but merely being attracted to one sex or the other isn't. I also thought it would allow for a more historical discussion of the concept and Christian views on it, as the idea of homosexuality is much more recent but the story of Sodom and Gomorrah goes back to the Bible itself.

But all that said, yes, I was aware that the word has often been used in hateful ways but I used it anyway because I thought it would better communicate what I was trying to ask about. It was a mistake on my part and I'm sorry if anyone was hurt by it, as it was not my intention.

The issue is that there isn't really a discussion to have.

If you are a gay male, or a female with a penis in a relationship with either of these two people, 'sex' is either receipt of or giving anal, oral, or a other stimulation. All of which tend to be problematic for conservative to mainstream Christianity. All forms of sexual expression between same sex (using shorthand here) people is deemed sinful as is by extension anything that 'stirs' from kissing to cuddling. The idea that 'oh it's not the inclination it's the act' is a distinction is one of the most meaningless and nonsense statements Christianity has ever made because it makes no practical distinction and is only offered because 'muh science and muh psychology' and interacting with the human race has made outright condemnation of sexual orientation f-cking stupid.

Anyone who thinks they can do this, with a strained grin painted on their face, leads to hollowed out husks of human beings on their knees in prayer because they happened to give their partner a hug. (And yes celibacy is a thing, but commanded for the gays and optional for the straights is the same nonsense, but with an extra step.)

The entire history of Christianity as the sum of it's parts has been to effectively gaslight LGBT persons.

So talking about the 'religious view of sodomy'; of anal sex being as it is at the core of some, but not all same sex male relationships and bearing in mind that absolutely no physical expression of love is ever acceptable to some Christians no matter how much we try and show and love and lead by example, to me as a gay man, is partaking in a rhetorical exercise for no one's benefit.

[Mopsus]

Being serious for a moment, the idea that having sex and finding a partner are indispensable parts of the human experience, in the absence of which one becomes a “hollowed out husk of a human being”, is not only not true, it’s an idea that contributes to its own extremely toxic culture, which causes psychological harm to gay people and straight people alike.

[afleitch]

Being serious for a moment, the idea that having sex and finding a partner are indispensable parts of the human experience, in the absence of which one becomes a “hollowed out husk of a human being”, is not only not true, it’s an idea that contributes to its own extremely toxic culture, which causes psychological harm to gay people and straight people alike.

That's not what I was saying. The statement was bookended. It was directed at some who chose to enter a relationship because they accept their sexuality but hoping to placate the heterosexual norms of the church by remaining 'chaste' and instead end up second guessing every expression of intimacy. It was not directed at anyone who is single or any one who choses celibacy for personal reasons (rather than an expectation/obligation.)

[John Dule]

You know a thread has gone off the rails when my comment is the least controversial remark in it.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

You know a thread has gone off the rails when my comment is the least controversial remark in it.

I laughed out loud at this.

But yeah an R&P thread where Dule's comment is the least controversial remark = Hell has officially frozen over

[PSOL]

You know a thread has gone off the rails when my comment is the least controversial remark in it.

I laughed out loud at this.

But yeah an R&P thread where Dule's comment is the least controversial remark = Hell has officially frozen over

This is actually an incredibly educating experience on biblical law, historical developments of Christianity, and the varying interpretations of scripture. If it has gone off, it went off for the better.

[JA]

Yes, obviously. Sodomy is forbidden in the Bible because it disturbs the digestive and excretioniary system, which is the source of one's feeling of being rooted in reality. When this system (referred to as the root chakra in Hinduism) is disturbed (whether because of indigestion or other means), one is much more open to manipulation by malicious spiritual and worldly forces. Thus homosexual and heterosexual sodomy are normalized by Hollywood and pornography, both of which exist primarily to manipulate the psyche of the masses.

All of this must be understood by both sides of the heteronormativity debate.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not...

[Kingpoleon]

There's no such thing as sinful consensual sexual behavior between two people who are married.

Are you OK? This is the second time in recent days where I’ve been forced to concur, at least in part, with your decision. I’m very nervous: did Joe Biden’s election end our eternal feud?