1964: Adlai Stevenson vs Barry Goldwater

[Don Vito Corleone]

President Lyndon Johnson, citing health concerns, declines to run for a full term. At the Convention, the Democrats select Adlai Stevenson as their nominee. On the Republican side, the primary goes the same as OTL. Who wins?

[Kingpoleon]

346: Adlai Stevenson II/Allan Shivers - 55.3%
192: Barry Goldwater/Norris Cotton - 43.5%
Others - 1.2%

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

I would hate to see this.

Both Stevenson and Goldwater were openly racist.

[The Govanah Jake]

346: Adlai Stevenson II/Allan Shivers - 55.3%
192: Barry Goldwater/Norris Cotton - 43.5%
Others - 1.2%

Yea this is about right. Maybe give or take Oklahoma, New Jersey, Connecticut, Colorado, Texas and 1-2 of Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Stevenson would do MUCH better in the Deep South than LBJ, but much worse everywhere else.

[Agonized-Statism]

That's ironic considering Stevenson died in 1965.

UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson (D-IL) / Senator Stuart Symington (D-MO) ✓
Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) / Congressman William Miller (R-NY)

[MATTROSE94]

I would hate to see this.

Both Stevenson and Goldwater were openly racist.

Even though he did poorly with the Africa American vote in 1956 (Estes Kefauver probably saved him with African American voters), Adlai Stevenson didn’t really seem to be openly racist and had an okayish record on civil rights as Illinois governor.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

I would hate to see this.

Both Stevenson and Goldwater were openly racist.

Even though he did poorly with the Africa American vote in 1956 (Estes Kefauver probably saved him with African American voters), Adlai Stevenson didn’t really seem to be openly racist and had an okayish record on civil rights as Illinois governor.

It's weird that he did worse in 56 then 52 when he had an open segregationist as his runningmate.

[MATTROSE94]

I would hate to see this.

Both Stevenson and Goldwater were openly racist.

Even though he did poorly with the Africa American vote in 1956 (Estes Kefauver probably saved him with African American voters), Adlai Stevenson didn’t really seem to be openly racist and had an okayish record on civil rights as Illinois governor.

It's weird that he did worse in 56 then 52 when he had an open segregationist as his runningmate.

I know that Dwight Eisenhower was endorsed by most segregationists in 1952 such as Richard Russell, Strom Thurmond, Harry Byrd, and L. Mendel Rivers, who were more hardline segregationists than John Sparkman. Also, the rhetoric of Joseph McCarthy and other anti-communist Republicans implied that the civil rights movement took direct orders from the Soviet Union.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

I would hate to see this.

Both Stevenson and Goldwater were openly racist.

Even though he did poorly with the Africa American vote in 1956 (Estes Kefauver probably saved him with African American voters), Adlai Stevenson didn’t really seem to be openly racist and had an okayish record on civil rights as Illinois governor.

It's weird that he did worse in 56 then 52 when he had an open segregationist as his runningmate.

I know that Dwight Eisenhower was endorsed by most segregationists in 1952 such as Richard Russell, Strom Thurmond, Harry Byrd, and L. Mendel Rivers, who were more hardline segregationists than John Sparkman. Also, the rhetoric of Joseph McCarthy and other anti-communist Republicans implied that the civil rights movement took direct orders from the Soviet Union.

I didn't realize that actually. Suggests to me that if the Democrats had nominated an outright champion of Civil Rights that year as opposed to someone who took a benign neglect approach like Stevenson Eisenhower might have won all fifty states or Strom Thurmond might have run again and taken the deep south, shutting the national party out of the White House.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

I have a hard time imagining Stevenson could have gotten the Democratic nomination when he was already a two time loser. It's so weird to me that his stans were pushing for him to be the nominee in 60.

[One Term Floridian]

I have a hard time imagining Stevenson could have gotten the Democratic nomination when he was already a two time loser. It's so weird to me that his stans were pushing for him to be the nominee in 60.

Yeah. He and his stans had more of a humiliation fetish thing going on than even Bernie and his bros

[HisGrace]

If Johnson stepped aside there's no way it wouldn't have been RFK who would have destroyed Goldwater with a similar map. Hard to imagine this scenario even happening.

[bagelman]

If Johnson stepped aside there's no way it wouldn't have been RFK who would have destroyed Goldwater with a similar map. Hard to imagine this scenario even happening.

I guess the scenario assumes that RFK is rejected by party bosses for being too liberal for their own interests. Thus getting the gears turning faster for reform and primaries.

Or maybe "health concerns" is code for "Johnson did some really really really really bad or something and the party bosses are forcing him out" but Johnson, even if with no political capital, is at least able to force them to avoid RFK.

https://www.yapms.com/app/?m=4tr5

whatever lulz

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

I have a hard time imagining Stevenson could have gotten the Democratic nomination when he was already a two time loser. It's so weird to me that his stans were pushing for him to be the nominee in 60.

Yeah. He and his stans had more of a humiliation fetish thing going on than even Bernie and his bros

Indeed, hell i'm an admitted Berniebro and I'd be pretty depressed if I saw anyone trying to get him to run a third time.

[Alcibiades]

If Johnson stepped aside there's no way it wouldn't have been RFK who would have destroyed Goldwater with a similar map. Hard to imagine this scenario even happening.

I guess the scenario assumes that RFK is rejected by party bosses for being too liberal for their own interests. Thus getting the gears turning faster for reform and primaries.

Or maybe "health concerns" is code for "Johnson did some really really really really bad or something and the party bosses are forcing him out" but Johnson, even if with no political capital, is at least able to force them to avoid RFK.

https://www.yapms.com/app/?m=4tr5

whatever lulz

That’s remarkably similar to Bill Clinton’s maps.