Pro-life/anti-war voters
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Author Topic: Pro-life/anti-war voters  (Read 2417 times)
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2020, 02:58:00 PM »


What the hell does "pro-worker" mean?

Sshh don't ruin this communitarian nerdfest.


Anyway: probably it means someone who does not vote like Roberts did in Citizens United v. FEC or Janus v. AFSCME.

If they are being honest and not just trying to create liberal arguments for conservative policies, I’d agree with that.

There is, if course, Hugo Black. Ronald Reagan famously said he wanted 9 of them.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2020, 03:01:32 PM »

What the hell does "pro-worker" mean?

Sshh don't ruin this communitarian nerdfest.


Anyway: probably it means someone who does not vote like Roberts did in Citizens United v. FEC or Janus v. AFSCME.

If they are being honest and not just trying to create liberal arguments for conservative policies, I’d agree with that.

There is, if course, Hugo Black. Ronald Reagan famously said he wanted 9 of them.

Hugo Black may be my favourite Supreme Court Justice to be honest.
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jaymichaud
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2020, 03:02:23 PM »

100% voted for Trump in 2016.
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Idaho Conservative
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2020, 05:04:39 PM »

Trump, for better or worse, has been our most anti-abortion President.  It's not even close.

Could you walk me through why you believe that to be the case? Sincere question. Dubya passed a new abortion restriction (the partial-birth abortion ban) into federal law and got it upheld by the SCOTUS. Trump hasn't managed to do either of those things. Moreover I find it difficult to believe, given the demographics of abortion politics in the US, that the least religious Republican President (possibly the least religious President period) since at least Eisenhower would be the most opposed to abortion on the level of personal sentiment either. So I'm just not sure what basis there is to consider him "our most anti-abortion President" other than campaign/rally rhetoric and willingness to be seen keeping the counsel of "movement pro-life" figures. What, in your opinion, am I missing?

Not Fuzzy, but one major thing Trump has done that I don't think any other president since Roe has done is only appoint Supreme Court justices who appear willing to overturn Roe. For whatever reason, when Republicans who are "open to compromise" get appointed to sensitive positions, such as the Supreme Court, social issues seem to always be the thing they compromise on. Republicans never seem to accidentally appoint people who rule with the Democrats on unions or campaign finance reform or corporations. Instead they always seem to rule with the Democrats on abortion and other social issues. So it's easy to see how someone like Trump taking a scorched earth line on courts can be the most anti-abortion presidency ever.
I'd totally spport a socially conservative, pro worker judge.

What the hell does "pro-worker" mean?

Personally, I think of unions. I don't think they are thinking of that, though.

I think when people are talking about "pro-worker" in the Republican Party, they are talking strictly about reducing competition for employment by slowing immigration, integration, and women joining the workforce. Maybe some "trickle down" policies to raise pollution that would allow more low and middle skilled workers into middle income jobs.
I'm not just talking about immigration.  Thinks like unions, the minimum wage, cases involving conflict between labor and management, etc.  I would vote to confirm a judge like that as ling as they were socially conservative.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2020, 09:03:05 PM »

Trump, for better or worse, has been our most anti-abortion President.  It's not even close.

Could you walk me through why you believe that to be the case? Sincere question. Dubya passed a new abortion restriction (the partial-birth abortion ban) into federal law and got it upheld by the SCOTUS. Trump hasn't managed to do either of those things. Moreover I find it difficult to believe, given the demographics of abortion politics in the US, that the least religious Republican President (possibly the least religious President period) since at least Eisenhower would be the most opposed to abortion on the level of personal sentiment either. So I'm just not sure what basis there is to consider him "our most anti-abortion President" other than campaign/rally rhetoric and willingness to be seen keeping the counsel of "movement pro-life" figures. What, in your opinion, am I missing?

Not Fuzzy, but one major thing Trump has done that I don't think any other president since Roe has done is only appoint Supreme Court justices who appear willing to overturn Roe. For whatever reason, when Republicans who are "open to compromise" get appointed to sensitive positions, such as the Supreme Court, social issues seem to always be the thing they compromise on. Republicans never seem to accidentally appoint people who rule with the Democrats on unions or campaign finance reform or corporations. Instead they always seem to rule with the Democrats on abortion and other social issues. So it's easy to see how someone like Trump taking a scorched earth line on courts can be the most anti-abortion presidency ever.
I'd totally spport a socially conservative, pro worker judge.

What the hell does "pro-worker" mean?

Personally, I think of unions. I don't think they are thinking of that, though.

I think when people are talking about "pro-worker" in the Republican Party, they are talking strictly about reducing competition for employment by slowing immigration, integration, and women joining the workforce. Maybe some "trickle down" policies to raise pollution that would allow more low and middle skilled workers into middle income jobs.
I'm not just talking about immigration.  Thinks like unions, the minimum wage, cases involving conflict between labor and management, etc.  I would vote to confirm a judge like that as ling as they were socially conservative.

There is an argument to be made that none of the left’s solutions to those issues is actually going to end up being a net positive for “workers” ... hence, the ridiculousness of the term.

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.
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Idaho Conservative
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2020, 04:17:26 PM »

Trump, for better or worse, has been our most anti-abortion President.  It's not even close.

Could you walk me through why you believe that to be the case? Sincere question. Dubya passed a new abortion restriction (the partial-birth abortion ban) into federal law and got it upheld by the SCOTUS. Trump hasn't managed to do either of those things. Moreover I find it difficult to believe, given the demographics of abortion politics in the US, that the least religious Republican President (possibly the least religious President period) since at least Eisenhower would be the most opposed to abortion on the level of personal sentiment either. So I'm just not sure what basis there is to consider him "our most anti-abortion President" other than campaign/rally rhetoric and willingness to be seen keeping the counsel of "movement pro-life" figures. What, in your opinion, am I missing?

Not Fuzzy, but one major thing Trump has done that I don't think any other president since Roe has done is only appoint Supreme Court justices who appear willing to overturn Roe. For whatever reason, when Republicans who are "open to compromise" get appointed to sensitive positions, such as the Supreme Court, social issues seem to always be the thing they compromise on. Republicans never seem to accidentally appoint people who rule with the Democrats on unions or campaign finance reform or corporations. Instead they always seem to rule with the Democrats on abortion and other social issues. So it's easy to see how someone like Trump taking a scorched earth line on courts can be the most anti-abortion presidency ever.
I'd totally spport a socially conservative, pro worker judge.

What the hell does "pro-worker" mean?

Personally, I think of unions. I don't think they are thinking of that, though.

I think when people are talking about "pro-worker" in the Republican Party, they are talking strictly about reducing competition for employment by slowing immigration, integration, and women joining the workforce. Maybe some "trickle down" policies to raise pollution that would allow more low and middle skilled workers into middle income jobs.
I'm not just talking about immigration.  Thinks like unions, the minimum wage, cases involving conflict between labor and management, etc.  I would vote to confirm a judge like that as ling as they were socially conservative.

There is an argument to be made that none of the left’s solutions to those issues is actually going to end up being a net positive for “workers” ... hence, the ridiculousness of the term.

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.
Says RINO Tom
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lfromnj
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2020, 04:18:50 PM »
« Edited: September 03, 2020, 12:54:36 AM by lfromnj »

RINO TOM,
simple answer for TJ/Idaho cons type of judge or politician.


Repeal Janus vs AFSCME and Roe v Wade.

Can you not see those type of voters being mad at being expected to vote for the GOP so they can get their JUDGES but instead just getting Janus which they don't really care about but Roberts can't uphold an abortion law in Louisiana?
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Former President tack50
tack50
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2020, 04:24:02 PM »

If I had to guess as to how such a voter would vote if they cared just about those 2 issues exactly equally:

1976: Carter
1980: Carter
1984: Mondale
1988: Dukakis

1992: Perot (Clinton also works)
1996: Dole (Perot also works)
2000: Bush
2004: Kerry
2008: Obama
2012: Obama

2016: Trump

Seems like a weird version of Fuzzy Bear's own voting record lol
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2020, 03:17:34 AM »

If I had to guess as to how such a voter would vote if they cared just about those 2 issues exactly equally:

1976: Carter
1980: Carter
1984: Mondale
1988: Dukakis

1992: Perot (Clinton also works)
1996: Dole (Perot also works)
2000: Bush
2004: Kerry
2008: Obama
2012: Obama

2016: Trump

Seems like a weird version of Fuzzy Bear's own voting record lol

They sound like what my father's preferences would be had he not a massive Reagan/Poppy crush for Cold War reasons (also my father could not have voted until the 1988 election).

Indeed my father could be called a "pro-life/anti-war voter" although in practice both things are mostly politically irrelevant in Italy, so that label really only applies to this kind of USA-related hypotheticals.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2020, 08:12:26 AM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2020, 08:50:49 AM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.

Well, as DC Al Fine sort of touched upon in that thread*, Trump's candidacy and presidency could be described as a continuous, shameless exploiting of "communitarians" for pure personal gain (and for the gain of the donor class, which by the way is the class to which Trump belongs to in my opinion).

*which I will acknowledge here as (in my still pretty short experience) possibly the most interesting thread I have seen on Atlas.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2020, 10:05:17 AM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.

Well, as DC Al Fine sort of touched upon in that thread*, Trump's candidacy and presidency could be described as a continuous, shameless exploiting of "communitarians" for pure personal gain (and for the gain of the donor class, which by the way is the class to which Trump belongs to in my opinion).

*which I will acknowledge here as (in my still pretty short experience) possibly the most interesting thread I have seen on Atlas.

It would be shocking if Trump said some of what was being said above (and meant it). What's not shocking is Trumpists saying it.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2020, 04:01:13 PM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.

Well, as DC Al Fine sort of touched upon in that thread*, Trump's candidacy and presidency could be described as a continuous, shameless exploiting of "communitarians" for pure personal gain (and for the gain of the donor class, which by the way is the class to which Trump belongs to in my opinion).

*which I will acknowledge here as (in my still pretty short experience) possibly the most interesting thread I have seen on Atlas.

It would be shocking if Trump said some of what was being said above (and meant it). What's not shocking is Trumpists saying it.

Of course.

To go further, since that is the original topic of this thread, I am pretty sure that Trump himself is neither pro-life nor anti-war at heart (at least in so far as he is anything at heart) - even though many of his supporters are.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
Nathan
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« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2020, 08:17:27 AM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.

Well, as DC Al Fine sort of touched upon in that thread*, Trump's candidacy and presidency could be described as a continuous, shameless exploiting of "communitarians" for pure personal gain (and for the gain of the donor class, which by the way is the class to which Trump belongs to in my opinion).

*which I will acknowledge here as (in my still pretty short experience) possibly the most interesting thread I have seen on Atlas.

It would be shocking if Trump said some of what was being said above (and meant it). What's not shocking is Trumpists saying it.

Of course.

To go further, since that is the original topic of this thread, I am pretty sure that Trump himself is neither pro-life nor anti-war at heart (at least in so far as he is anything at heart) - even though many of his supporters are.

I actually think Trump is somewhat likelier to be sincerely anti-war than sincerely pro-life. He clearly has very little in the way of a "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" instinct, and he seems to genuinely not understand the (perceived) point of most American military entanglements.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2020, 08:30:26 AM »

How ironic is it that Trumpists are now effectively Rockefeller “Me Too Republicans” on economic issues sometimes?  Lol.

It's really not that ironic. One of the participants in this very conversation established a while ago that the group of voters Trump resonated most with in 2016 are low-SES social/cultural conservatives with mixed-to-progressive views on the economy.

Of course, Trump himself is (in my opinion) shamelessly taking these people for a ride and putting the donor caste first just like every other Republican President (and most Democratic Presidents) in modern times, but it's really not surprising that a conversation between Trumpy or Trump-curious Republicans today would include a bit more love for union workers than a conversation between Republican partisans ten or twenty years ago.

Well, as DC Al Fine sort of touched upon in that thread*, Trump's candidacy and presidency could be described as a continuous, shameless exploiting of "communitarians" for pure personal gain (and for the gain of the donor class, which by the way is the class to which Trump belongs to in my opinion).

*which I will acknowledge here as (in my still pretty short experience) possibly the most interesting thread I have seen on Atlas.

It would be shocking if Trump said some of what was being said above (and meant it). What's not shocking is Trumpists saying it.

Of course.

To go further, since that is the original topic of this thread, I am pretty sure that Trump himself is neither pro-life nor anti-war at heart (at least in so far as he is anything at heart) - even though many of his supporters are.

I actually think Trump is somewhat likelier to be sincerely anti-war than sincerely pro-life. He clearly has very little in the way of a "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" instinct, and he seems to genuinely not understand the (perceived) point of most American military entanglements.

Yes, you are actually probably right. Trump if anything has a "Disdain Our Troops" instinct (more so if they died in combat).
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