Tlaib slams Israel/UAE peace deal and says Israel is committing apartheid

[SevenEleven]

Okay, every Democrat on the site, defend this politician’s words and opinions that you have no control over or leave your party!

What happened in the last two months? You've gone from a reasonable right leaning poster to kind of a bitter sounding hack. I'm certainly not going to defend Tlaib's comments, I think Israel has done some things wrong but so does every other country including the USA. These "gotcha" style posts you've had lately, and similar from lfromnj and dead0man, are really lame and don't foster healthy discussion.

Whats a healthy discussion by your definition?
A circlejerk without any of those nasty right wingers?

Not stupid one liners such as this.

Really helping the poor out.

[lfromnj]

Okay, every Democrat on the site, defend this politician’s words and opinions that you have no control over or leave your party!

What happened in the last two months? You've gone from a reasonable right leaning poster to kind of a bitter sounding hack. I'm certainly not going to defend Tlaib's comments, I think Israel has done some things wrong but so does every other country including the USA. These "gotcha" style posts you've had lately, and similar from lfromnj and dead0man, are really lame and don't foster healthy discussion.

Whats a healthy discussion by your definition?
A circlejerk without any of those nasty right wingers?

Not stupid one liners such as this.

Really helping the poor out.

The thing is that it started a good debate overall with some sh!tposting involved . Do you really think atlas would have been better off if that debate never occured?

[SevenEleven]

Okay, every Democrat on the site, defend this politician’s words and opinions that you have no control over or leave your party!

What happened in the last two months? You've gone from a reasonable right leaning poster to kind of a bitter sounding hack. I'm certainly not going to defend Tlaib's comments, I think Israel has done some things wrong but so does every other country including the USA. These "gotcha" style posts you've had lately, and similar from lfromnj and dead0man, are really lame and don't foster healthy discussion.

Whats a healthy discussion by your definition?
A circlejerk without any of those nasty right wingers?

Not stupid one liners such as this.

Really helping the poor out.

The thing is that it started a good debate overall with some sh!tposting involved . Do you really think atlas would have been better off if that debate never occured?

I think it would be better for Talk Elections if you put a modicum of thought into your posts. Right wingers love to complain about the nature of the discussion on this board, while making the worst posts on it at the same time. Don't accuse me of wanting an echo chamber because I'm asking for you to do more than, in your own words, sh**tpost.

[Benjamin Frank]

Netanyahu is a terrorist and Israel, under Netanyahu, is becoming an apartheid state.

Both of these are simple facts.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Okay, every Democrat on the site, defend this politician’s words and opinions that you have no control over or leave your party!

What happened in the last two months? You've gone from a reasonable right leaning poster to kind of a bitter sounding hack. I'm certainly not going to defend Tlaib's comments, I think Israel has done some things wrong but so does every other country including the USA. These "gotcha" style posts you've had lately, and similar from lfromnj and dead0man, are really lame and don't foster healthy discussion.

Dont you think Proud Moderate and Ghost of Ruin are good posters lmao.

[Kingpoleon]

Leftists- stop arguing from position! "Israel bad Netanyahu bad Trump bad" is the starting point and your arguments are just an attempt to reach it. The deal is just good news. I don't care which crooks reached it.

Of course, it's also important to stress out that we can't let this deal make us forget the Palestinians and the importance of reaching a two state solution.

Tlaib's wording is, as always, abhorrent and meant to incite against Israel and its people. But it is true that we should not let this freeze the need to end the long-term annexations.

Does the description of Israel as an apartheid state offend you?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

[Benjamin Frank]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

[America Needs R'hllor]

Leftists- stop arguing from position! "Israel bad Netanyahu bad Trump bad" is the starting point and your arguments are just an attempt to reach it. The deal is just good news. I don't care which crooks reached it.

Of course, it's also important to stress out that we can't let this deal make us forget the Palestinians and the importance of reaching a two state solution.

Tlaib's wording is, as always, abhorrent and meant to incite against Israel and its people. But it is true that we should not let this freeze the need to end the long-term annexations.

Does the description of Israel as an apartheid state offend you?

I wouldn't say it offends me. I don't like it. There are two main reasons:
1. It's factually wrong. Arab people have huge issues and face a lot of racism in Israel, but also enjoy equality under the law and reach positions of power. Israel is more similar to other countries with minorities facing problems than to South Africa. The situation in the West Bank isn't appartheid- it's a military occupation,. This is of course a terrible situation we need to end, but both sides need to compromise for this to happen. Just doesn't bear any resemblance to appartheid. Of course, if Israel annexes territories without giving the Palestinians there a right to vote, that would be a move towards appartheid and I will readily admit it.
2. The constant use of the word appartheid to describe the situation joins other flaws in the arguments of people on the left- the overuse of words like fascism, genocide, colonialism etc. This cheapens the very grave meaning of the word and makes it a partisan issue.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

Yes. It is. Keep up.

[Benjamin Frank]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

Yes. It is. Keep up.

I think you either don't know the definition of 'antisemitic' or you are cheapening the very grave meaning of the word and making it a partisan issue.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

Yes. It is. Keep up.

I think you either don't know the definition of 'antisemitic' or you are cheapening the very grave meaning of the word and making it a partisan issue.

Are you Jewish?

[Horus]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

Yes. It is. Keep up.

I think you either don't know the definition of 'antisemitic' or you are cheapening the very grave meaning of the word and making it a partisan issue.

You are talking to someone who seriously thinks Jeremy Corbyn is the reincarnation of Otto Strasser, don't waste your time.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hey, at least she didn't accuse a Jewish congresswoman of working for another country this time.

Random Congressperson "I'm a proud defender of Israel!"

Another person: In 'proudly defending Israel' you might be putting their interests ahead of the United States.

Random Congressperson and their supporters "that's antisemitic!"

Yes. It is. Keep up.

I think you either don't know the definition of 'antisemitic' or you are cheapening the very grave meaning of the word and making it a partisan issue.

You are talking to someone who seriously thinks Jeremy Corbyn is the reincarnation of Otto Strasser, don't waste your time.

And soon they'll share another key similarity - being utterly forgotten by history.

[free my dawg]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

Bernie helped all these justice democrats get elected and is a huge supporter of Omar and Tlaib

[free my dawg]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

Bernie helped all these justice democrats get elected and is a huge supporter of Omar and Tlaib

You're also not Jewish. You don't get to decide what anti-Semitism is.

It's a very simple rule to follow. You don't see me criticizing Ray's hatred of Corbyn or debating anyone who's said Omar/Tlaib are anti-Semitic!

[Saint Milei]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

I mean Paul Gottfried gets blame for creating the alt-right who hates Jews when he's Jewish so boohoo

[free my dawg]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

I mean Paul Gottfried gets blame for creating the alt-right who hates Jews when he's Jewish so boohoo

We're not talking about Paul Gottfried. We're talking about beep boop.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://mobile.twitter.com/RashidaTlaib/status/1293960029184446464


The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

It's all the fault of the guy who got interested in politics because politics led to most of his father's family being killed in the Holocaust.

[Saint Milei]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

I mean Paul Gottfried gets blame for creating the alt-right who hates Jews when he's Jewish so boohoo

We're not talking about Paul Gottfried. We're talking about beep boop.

The same bernie supporters do the same thing for the other side. Can't have it both days

[free my dawg]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

I mean Paul Gottfried gets blame for creating the alt-right who hates Jews when he's Jewish so boohoo

We're not talking about Paul Gottfried. We're talking about beep boop.

The same bernie supporters do the same thing for the other side. Can't have it both days

You know, for all of this talk about DeadPrez being intolerant, I don't get it. He knows so deeply in his heart that there's no defense for Computer's paternalism that he's resorted to whataboutery.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

Bernie helped all these justice democrats get elected and is a huge supporter of Omar and Tlaib

And one of his prominent endorsers has been Linda Sarsour.

I'm not going to get into the head of Bernie Sanders on this issue.  I'm sure he's not an anti-Semite; indeed, I do believe that Bernie genuinely believes in the equality of all people when you get down to his core. 

Bernie, however, has adopted (perhaps out of necessity, given how the Democratic Party Establishment hates him and wishes he'd get lost) a posture of "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend".  There's certainly a place for that in politics.  Rep. Phil Burton (D-CA) was the leader for years of Democratic Study Group in Congress, and he had a taste for the unusual and surprising alliance here and there.  Burton is the guy who is responsible, more than anyone else, for ending the Seniority System in Congress, requiring that Committee and Subcommittee Chairs be voted on by the Democratic Caucus.  This meant that there would be no more hardcore Southern Reactionaries as Committee Chairs who kept their seats just by breathing and getting re-elected; they would have to moderate their voting records to accomodate the Democratic Caucus.  Yes, it meant that Rep. Jamie Whitten (D-MS) got to rise to the Chairmanship of the Appropriations Committee; it also meant that the former Segregationist Whitten, who, prior to 1975, had single digit ratings from ADA, moderated is voting record to this:

Whitten was originally a segregationist, as were many of his colleagues from Mississippi and the rest of the South. He signed the Southern Manifesto condemning the U.S. Supreme Court decision Brown vs. Board of Education, which desegregated public schools. Along with virtually the entire Mississippi congressional delegation, he voted against the Civil Rights Acts of 1957, 1960, 1964, 1965 and 1968. Whitten later apologized for these votes, calling them a "mistake" caused by severe misjudgment. He voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1991.

This is the upside of the strategy.  What are the limits?  Speaking for myself, I think the limits come when the enemy of your enemy is also an enemy of America as a whole. 

Tlaib is an anti-Jewish enemy of America who got elected to Congress and who may keep getting elected until a better-financed primary opponent dumps her.  (And one may well emerge; Tlaib isn't personally wealthy and is one of the Members of Congress who has a hard time keeping up with the financial demands of being a Representative in DC and working her district back home.)  It's like Louis Farrakhan got elected to Congress.  That's a bit of an over-simplification, but it's essentially who Tlaib is.  Now if she's willing to publicly and unequivocally condemn the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, I'll listen to the next argument she'll make.  I'm serious; the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseni, was, very much, the originator of the Palestinian Nationalist Movements today, a fact many seek to avoid today.  We are asking (indeed, people are demanding) all sorts of law-abiding citizens (and especially those in politics) to repudiate General Robert E. Lee.  By that standard, and given her issue positions, it's not too much to ask of Tlaib to repudiate Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during the Hitler era.

So it's fair to question whether or not Bernie Sanders is feeding anti-Semitism by his choice of allies.\  in a World where people are demeaned as "racists" simply for supporting Donald Trump.  Now if Bernie and his allies think that's unfair, well, OK.  But let's drop the nonsense about Trump being the New George Wallace and make the debate one about public policy.  Perhaps, then, we can return to being more rational. 

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Tlaib is an anti-Jewish enemy of America

This is the type of discourse that conservatives engage in to shut down any opposition to their pet political policies. It smacks of McCarthyism.

[Horus]

The squad is totally terrible in every possible way and Bernie deserves a lot of the blame as all the democrats who were elected of a movement he started have all be terrible in every way possible

My favorite part about this is you trying to say a Jewish man is to blame for the rise of anti-Semitism for this country.

Thank you, sir, for outing yourself.

Bernie helped all these justice democrats get elected and is a huge supporter of Omar and Tlaib

And one of his prominent endorsers has been Linda Sarsour.

I'm not going to get into the head of Bernie Sanders on this issue.  I'm sure he's not an anti-Semite; indeed, I do believe that Bernie genuinely believes in the equality of all people when you get down to his core.  

Bernie, however, has adopted (perhaps out of necessity, given how the Democratic Party Establishment hates him and wishes he'd get lost) a posture of "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend".  There's certainly a place for that in politics.  Rep. Phil Burton (D-CA) was the leader for years of Democratic Study Group in Congress, and he had a taste for the unusual and surprising alliance here and there.  Burton is the guy who is responsible, more than anyone else, for ending the Seniority System in Congress, requiring that Committee and Subcommittee Chairs be voted on by the Democratic Caucus.  This meant that there would be no more hardcore Southern Reactionaries as Committee Chairs who kept their seats just by breathing and getting re-elected; they would have to moderate their voting records to accomodate the Democratic Caucus.  Yes, it meant that Rep. Jamie Whitten (D-MS) got to rise to the Chairmanship of the Appropriations Committee; it also meant that the former Segregationist Whitten, who, prior to 1975, had single digit ratings from ADA, moderated is voting record to this:

Whitten was originally a segregationist, as were many of his colleagues from Mississippi and the rest of the South. He signed the Southern Manifesto condemning the U.S. Supreme Court decision Brown vs. Board of Education, which desegregated public schools. Along with virtually the entire Mississippi congressional delegation, he voted against the Civil Rights Acts of 1957, 1960, 1964, 1965 and 1968. Whitten later apologized for these votes, calling them a "mistake" caused by severe misjudgment. He voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1991.

This is the upside of the strategy.  What are the limits?  Speaking for myself, I think the limits come when the enemy of your enemy is also an enemy of America as a whole.  

Tlaib is an anti-Jewish enemy of America who got elected to Congress and who may keep getting elected until a better-financed primary opponent dumps her.  (And one may well emerge; Tlaib isn't personally wealthy and is one of the Members of Congress who has a hard time keeping up with the financial demands of being a Representative in DC and working her district back home.)  It's like Louis Farrakhan got elected to Congress.  That's a bit of an over-simplification, but it's essentially who Tlaib is.  Now if she's willing to publicly and unequivocally condemn the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, I'll listen to the next argument she'll make.  I'm serious; the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseni, was, very much, the originator of the Palestinian Nationalist Movements today, a fact many seek to avoid today.  We are asking (indeed, people are demanding) all sorts of law-abiding citizens (and especially those in politics) to repudiate General Robert E. Lee.  By that standard, and given her issue positions, it's not too much to ask of Tlaib to repudiate Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem during the Hitler era.

So it's fair to question whether or not Bernie Sanders is feeding anti-Semitism by his choice of allies.\  in a World where people are demeaned as "racists" simply for supporting Donald Trump.  Now if Bernie and his allies think that's unfair, well, OK.  But let's drop the nonsense about Trump being the New George Wallace and make the debate one about public policy.  Perhaps, then, we can return to being more rational.  

Farrakhan is a soft trump supporter if you listen to what he actually says. As much as the right uses him as a Boogeyman they have a LOT in common. The NOI is a socially conservative pro free enterprise organization.