Sanders, Warren, Booker sponsor bill to ban factory farming by 2040

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I'm curious if we would extend that definition of essential to WIC eligibility.

I doubt most Democrats are sincerely interested in making us a nation of roving, bug paste-consuming warrior clans.

[S019]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

Sometimes I wonder if political veganism will become a thing.

I mean, that's what this is. Cory Booker is a supporter of PETA, which wants to make getting meat harder if not completely illegal. This is the first step on that, and Sanders and Warren signed on because it fits some of their other profiles.

Booker's affiliation with a radical vegan group is probably the main reason I didn't consider him in the primary.

Lol, as much as I wish this was a step towards political vegetarianism, it isn’t. These scare tactics make this sound a lot cooler than it actually is. It’s to improve conditions for animals who are being raised on farms where they’ll eventually be brutally killed. This bill just makes sure that they aren’t in ridiculously inhumane conditions until that fateful day. Please look up what factory farming is.

[WD]

This is a really stupid idea. Factory farming is important and a necessary industry

[RINO Tom]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

[It’s so Joever]

The alternative to having large farms is importing meat.

The easy solution to that is ban that too

This, meat agriculture contributes far more to climate change than people are willing to acknowledge

Also why are people so upset over the animal treatment itself?
It’s not like they are human.

We should worry more about antibiotic resistance and environmental impacts than how some pigs feel.

Sorry, if I sound rude, but this sounds extremely sadistic. (note bolded parts)

Perhaps, my moral compass is clearly not exactly aligned with most Americans, and it’s fine if you feel that way. I just see reforming our meat production system as necessary solely for protecting the environment (severe ecological changes hurt humans) preventing disease, and obviously to reduce food insecurity.

We have similar goals, just extremely different reasons.

[It’s so Joever]

Also why are people so upset over the animal treatment itself?
It’s not like they are human.

We should worry more about antibiotic resistance and environmental impacts than how some pigs feel.

I’ve seen plenty of films on how animals are placed in squalid conditions, are beaten to death, and are tested on. And while I get why it disturbs people....I honestly don’t care about
how the animals feel in the films. I do care about the conditions because they create a space for diseases to spread from animals to humans, but the treatment itself doesn’t bother me.

Maybe I am deranged, maybe it’s psychopathic of me, but I only care about the impacts such practices have on humans.

[It’s so Joever]

Also why are people so upset over the animal treatment itself?
It’s not like they are human.

A modicum of empathy with sentient beings and (in most cases) their unimaginable suffering, perhaps?

Believe it or not, there’s a variety of good reasons not to consume meat or at least seriously reduce your consumption of it (moral reasons, religious aspects, its devastating environmental impact, health-related concerns, etc.).

Well I do agree with the ecological reasons. I don’t eat beef at all for that reason and try to reduce my consumption. I also agree with the health reasons. I just don’t comprehend the moral reasons people are against this.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Lots of discussion in this thread about how essential low-grade animal products are to the diets of poor people without also mentioning that the sponsors of this bill... have worked pretty consistently to expand safety net programs which include food stamps and other food security programs (not to mention health care). Seems kind of ridiculous to me.

Even so, artificial meats will quickly fall in price in the next 20 years (or, more likely, in the next five years) as basic R&D continues and as production scales up. Price comparisons (already boosted by insanely generous subsidization of corporate farming) will become much more favorable over time. On the demand side, meat consumption is going to be a cultural issue much more than any sort of issue of economic issue. The supply side is thornier.

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

Do you mean, like, yeast?

[ON Progressive]

A terrible ignorant attack on the hardworking family farmers of America by urban northeastern leftists. The alternative to having large farms is importing meat. So you can ban “factory” farms aka big barns but all that does is move the big farms to foreign countries or make meat more expensive for the poor. I know families from the town where I grew up who would lose their livelihoods if this is enacted

Ah yes, the urban state of checks notes Vermont.

[SevenEleven]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

[S019]

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

I think the goal here is to grow animal tissue from cells dividing, etc., you might need say a swab from an existing animal, but no getting that swab, so that you can incubate the cells, etc. won't kill the animal. If nothing else, they might give it a minor cut (which yes would be painful), but it would be quickly stitched up.

[Bismarck]

A terrible ignorant attack on the hardworking family farmers of America by urban northeastern leftists. The alternative to having large farms is importing meat. So you can ban “factory” farms aka big barns but all that does is move the big farms to foreign countries or make meat more expensive for the poor. I know families from the town where I grew up who would lose their livelihoods if this is enacted

Ah yes, the urban state of checks notes Vermont.

Bernie Sanders is from New York City and was the mayor of a small city. Vermont May be rural but it’s not a place where many people will be affected by this policy, except perhaps some dairy farmers.

[Santander]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

I identify as a RINO Tom.

[S019]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

I identify as a RINO Tom.

You're basically a Dixiecrat/Demosaur, though you've finally gotten the message to switch parties

[Santander]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

I identify as a RINO Tom.

You're basically a Dixiecrat/Demosaur, though you've finally gotten the message to switch parties

Look at any demographic map of Midwestern metros and you will see stark racial segregation.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

Do you mean, like, yeast?

No?   Yeasts are fungi and afaik use of yeast doesn't require fundamentally tampering with its natural life cycle, so I'm not sure of the comparison you are making.

[The Free North]

Honestly, who the heck knows what the industry looks like in 2040 without this.

It remains entirely unclear what a 'factory farm' consists of. Presumably cattle feedlots are included. Not sure how you raise fats then and not massively jack up prices to the point that hamburger meat is out of reach for fast food restaurants and many working poor. Chicken farming is kind of cruel and needs to be fixed, but I don't know a ton about that. Don't know how they would classify hog farming either.

Seems like a bit of moral grandstanding here.

[The Free North]

This week, former presidential candidate and Senator Bernie Sanders (D-VT) signed on as a sponsor of the Farm System Reform Act (FSRA). Vegan Senator Cory Booker (D-NJ) introduced FSRA in December. FSRA aims to transition animal agriculture away from factory farming by banning the opening of new large-scale concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) and limiting the growth of existing CAFOs in the meat and dairy sector. The bill also aims to phase out the largest CAFOs—as defined by the Environmental Protection Agency—by 2040 and hold large meatpackers accountable for the pollution they create.

[...]

FSRA is gaining traction amid the COVID-19 pandemic, which has exposed the inefficiencies and zoonotic disease potential of the heavily consolidated meat industry—which is controlled by only a few multinational companies in a virtual monopoly. “Factory farming is not only an urgent environmental, justice, and ethical issue but also an issue of public health,” Michael Webermann, US Executive Director of nonprofit ProVeg International, said. “Mega-farms have taken over the agriculture sector, leaving fewer choices for consumers and creating a breeding ground for future pathogens because animals are cramped tightly together in severe, unsanitary conditions. We’ve long known that factory farms pollute the air, contaminate water, and destroy biodiversity. But now that we are living the consequences of a global pandemic, we can no longer stand idly by without change.”

Veg News

Major kudos to the sponsors for taking up this issue which is rarely talked about outside animal rights circles.

No offense to the person responsible for the second quote but the world is currently experiencing the largest animal disease crisis in history of humankind in ASF and the reality on the ground explicitly contradicts his point. Backyard breeders raising a few animals outside are the ones getting crushed with hogs dying in droves. Its the large corporate feeders that are surviving and actually expanding operations. Its almost like they've done literally 0 research on this, its honestly laughable.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

3D printers are steadily advancing to the point of creating cells and biomaterials that make up human tissues and organs.  On a cellular level, yes, the meat would have animal DNA, but the meat would already be "dead" to begin with.

[SevenEleven]

Not sure how you raise fats then and not massively jack up prices to the point that hamburger meat is out of reach for fast food restaurants and many working poor.

Eating meat is a choice, first of all. The cost of meat is not nearly as affective as the cost of energy. Of course, we do need to take measures with energy to fight climate change as well, but this is a reasonable solution as far as affecting poor people is concerned. Energy costs affect much more facets of our lives, including the cost of meat (transportation, feed, etc).

Maybe less meat and fast food consumption would be good for the poor, and every other American. So what if last night's dinner of a 16 oz NY steak with shallot wine sauce, lyonnaise potatoes and sauteed kale might cost me $13 to cook instead of $10? We are talking about saving the goddamn planet here!

Two packs of chicken legs, a bag of rice, some spinach, a box of oatmeal and a dozen eggs will feed a family of four for a week for about $20 currently. If that goes to $24, that is not devastating to the poor.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I actually find the prospect of mass produced lab grown meat pretty disturbing. Seems to me it is devaluing animal life by treating it as merely raw material without its own identity.  I would prefer we go to eating only as many animals as we can raise or hunt while allowing them good lives of their own.

I'm not sure I understand.  How are we devaluing animal life by not killing animals for our food?

I'm not sure that's accurate: it involves creating and killing something which, on a cellular level, is animal.

Do you mean, like, yeast?

No?   Yeasts are fungi and afaik use of yeast doesn't require fundamentally tampering with its natural life cycle, so I'm not sure of the comparison you are making.

I'm not trying to make (or refute) any point, I just genuinely don't understand what type of "animal" cell you are describing in this process.

[RINO Tom]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

I don't proclaim to, unlike many of my liberal friends.

[SevenEleven]

won't this make food much more expensive?  Doesn't that hurt poor people? 

No and no. Plenty of cheap food out there.

what's your evidence for this?  How are non-factory farms going to make up for the losses in efficiency?

Evidence that cheap food is out there? I, uh, go to the grocery store regularly.

This bill only deals with meat and dairy, which are not essential foods.

Lol.

This was a truly ... tone deaf thing to say from the Party of the People, haha.

I love coastal liberal elitism.

Nothing gets a liberal to sound more elitist than when you actually get them talking about the poor minorities that vote for them and the groceries they can't afford to buy!

I'd be extremely surprised if you, of all people, actually knew more about being a poor minority in America than I do.

I don't proclaim to, unlike many of my liberal friends.

Maybe you shouldn't suggest a poor minority doesn't understand poor minorities then. Just some (cheap) food for thought.

[dead0man]

Not sure how you raise fats then and not massively jack up prices to the point that hamburger meat is out of reach for fast food restaurants and many working poor.

Eating meat is a choice, first of all. The cost of meat is not nearly as affective as the cost of energy. Of course, we do need to take measures with energy to fight climate change as well, but this is a reasonable solution as far as affecting poor people is concerned. Energy costs affect much more facets of our lives, including the cost of meat (transportation, feed, etc).

Maybe less meat and fast food consumption would be good for the poor, and every other American. So what if last night's dinner of a 16 oz NY steak with shallot wine sauce, lyonnaise potatoes and sauteed kale might cost me $13 to cook instead of $10? We are talking about saving the goddamn planet here!

Two packs of chicken legs, a bag of rice, some spinach, a box of oatmeal and a dozen eggs will feed a family of four for a week for about $20 currently. If that goes to $24, that is not devastating to the poor.

three things:
1.why don't we let poor people decide what they want to eat?  No, they're not always going to make decisions you (or I) agree with, but what are you going to do, make all important decisions for them?  I think that's been tried before, it never turns out well.
2.if someone suggested SNAP benefits for a family of 4 should be limited to $24/week (because hey, they can be well fed at half that price if they just ate beans!) you'd (correctly) freak the hell out.
3.humans are omnivores, eating meat is natural.  NOT eating meat is the choice.