Voter suppresion/"stealing the election" megathread

[GeorgiaModerate]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

Question for the resident lawyers: would this be under the jurisdiction of the Fulton County DA?  (Who happens to be a Democrat, if anyone is wondering.)

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

Question for the resident lawyers: would this be under the jurisdiction of the Fulton County DA?  (Who happens to be a Democrat, if anyone is wondering.)

Here's the relevant statute: https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2016/title-21/chapter-2/article-15/section-21-2-604

(a) (1) A person commits the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the first degree when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a felony under this article, he or she solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage in such conduct.

(2) A person commits the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the second degree when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a misdemeanor under this article, he or she solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage in such conduct.

(b) (1) A person convicted of the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the first degree shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than three years.

(2) A person convicted of the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the second degree shall be punished as for a misdemeanor.

(c) It is no defense to a prosecution for criminal solicitation to commit election fraud that the person solicited could not be guilty of the crime solicited.

(d) The provisions of subsections (a) through (c) of this Code section are cumulative and shall not supersede any other penal law of this state.

Doesn't make jurisdiction clear of course, and any lawyer may not know either unless they're admitted to the Georgia Bar, but still worth asking.

[compucomp]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

I imagine "dead in the water" in a primary would be the least of their worries, they should be worried about sleeping with the fishes.

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1345798206471475204
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1345803569438597121

At this rate, the man's headstone is gonna read "RIGGED ELECTION! WE WON BY A LOT!"

[emailking]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

[Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

It might matter in terms of interstate extradition, especially given DeSantis's overall DeSantis-ness.

[cp]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

I imagine "dead in the water" in a primary would be the least of their worries, they should be worried about sleeping with the fishes.

Troy McClure would approve.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

I imagine "dead in the water" in a primary would be the least of their worries, they should be worried about sleeping with the fishes.

I image that anyone sleeping with the fishes would be dead in the water.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

It might matter in terms of interstate extradition, especially given DeSantis's overall DeSantis-ness.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing DeSantis can do to stop extradition of Trump. The Florida Attorney General, maybe, but the end result of that would just be the US Marshals being dispatched to apprehend Trump.

[LtNOWIS]

A group of Republican House members have an interesting argument. Chip Roy (TX), Mike Gallagher (WI), Kelly Armstrong (ND), Ken Buck (CO), Thomas Massie (KY), Tom McClintock (CA), and Nancy Mace (SC) put out a press release explaining why they won't object to the certification of the vote on the 6th. Basically, even if there was a lot of voter fraud, it's up to the states and the courts to figure out. The Congress's role is only to decide between different slates of electors. But every state has only sent a Biden slate or a Trump slate, so there's nothing to decide. Their constitutional responsibility is to defer to the states and count the votes.

https://gallagher.house.gov/media/press-releases/gallagher-colleagues-release-statement-concerning-january-6-vote

[GoTfan]

A group of Republican House members have an interesting argument. Chip Roy (TX), Mike Gallagher (WI), Kelly Armstrong (ND), Ken Buck (CO), Thomas Massie (KY), Tom McClintock (CA), and Nancy Mace (SC) put out a press release explaining why they won't object to the certification of the vote on the 6th. Basically, even if there was a lot of voter fraud, it's up to the states and the courts to figure out. The Congress's role is only to decide between different slates of electors. But every state has only sent a Biden slate or a Trump slate, so there's nothing to decide. Their constitutional responsibility is to defer to the states and count the votes.

https://gallagher.house.gov/media/press-releases/gallagher-colleagues-release-statement-concerning-january-6-vote

So these are the actual state's rights Republicans then.

[brucejoel99]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

It might matter in terms of interstate extradition, especially given DeSantis's overall DeSantis-ness.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing DeSantis can do to stop extradition of Trump. The Florida Attorney General, maybe, but the end result of that would just be the US Marshals being dispatched to apprehend Trump.

This is all manners of wrong, BRTD. Please read up on extradition law. Interstate extradition is solely within the Governor's realm, & not within a state AG's. Moreover, it'd be the responsibility of state law enforcement authorities to conduct the extradition, not the Marshals, who play a very limited role in interstate extradition (one which wouldn't apply to this case). If a Governor refused to extradite, then the federal courts would issue a writ of mandamus & compel said Governor to extradite, yes, but extradition would still occur between state authorities. Marshals are only authorized to be involved in interstate extradition when it involves child kidnapping.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

It might matter in terms of interstate extradition, especially given DeSantis's overall DeSantis-ness.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing DeSantis can do to stop extradition of Trump. The Florida Attorney General, maybe, but the end result of that would just be the US Marshals being dispatched to apprehend Trump.

This is all manners of wrong, BRTD. Please read up on extradition law. Interstate extradition is solely within the Governor's realm, & not within a state AG's. Moreover, it'd be the responsibility of state law enforcement authorities to conduct the extradition, not the Marshals, who play a very limited role in interstate extradition (one which wouldn't apply to this case). If a Governor refused to extradite, then the federal courts would issue a writ of mandamus & compel said Governor to extradite, yes, but extradition would still occur between state authorities. Marshals are only authorized to be involved in interstate extradition when it involves child kidnapping.

Well the main role of the Marshals is in fugitive recovery. So if Trump ignored a subpoena from New York or Georgia, wouldn't that make him a fugitive under the law? Not my area of expertise of course, granted. I think the FBI also trails interstate fugitives.

[brucejoel99]

Does it matter that he wasn't in Georgia when he made he call? In terms of the jurisdiction.

It might matter in terms of interstate extradition, especially given DeSantis's overall DeSantis-ness.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing DeSantis can do to stop extradition of Trump. The Florida Attorney General, maybe, but the end result of that would just be the US Marshals being dispatched to apprehend Trump.

This is all manners of wrong, BRTD. Please read up on extradition law. Interstate extradition is solely within the Governor's realm, & not within a state AG's. Moreover, it'd be the responsibility of state law enforcement authorities to conduct the extradition, not the Marshals, who play a very limited role in interstate extradition (one which wouldn't apply to this case). If a Governor refused to extradite, then the federal courts would issue a writ of mandamus & compel said Governor to extradite, yes, but extradition would still occur between state authorities. Marshals are only authorized to be involved in interstate extradition when it involves child kidnapping.

Well the main role of the Marshals is in fugitive recovery. So if Trump ignored a subpoena from New York or Georgia, wouldn't that make him a fugitive under the law? Not my area of expertise of course, granted. I think the FBI also trails interstate fugitives.

They operate in recovering federal fugitives charged under federal law or state fugitives who cross state lines to avoid capture. If already charged under state law by NY or GA & DeSantis is refusing to extradite, then Trump would be a state fugitive but not one who's yet crossed state lines to avoid capture, & he presumably wouldn't be taking any chances in leaving FL (be it through entering GA, AL, or federal waters), which would trigger Marshal jurisdiction.

[Virginiá]

The real question is whether a jury anywhere would ever find him guilty. If there are any solid Trump supporters on it, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be swayed by Trump's inevitable whining about political persecution.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

The real question is whether a jury anywhere would ever find him guilty. If there are any solid Trump supporters on it, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be swayed by Trump's inevitable whining about political persecution.

A Manhattan jury? I can totally see it.

[brucejoel99]

The real question is whether a jury anywhere would ever find him guilty. If there are any solid Trump supporters on it, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be swayed by Trump's inevitable whining about political persecution.

A Manhattan jury? I can totally see it.

IIRC, even one of the folks on the Manafort jury was a die-hard Trump supporter who nevertheless voted to convict him on 8 of the 18 felony counts. The legal system has by & large dodged the tarnish that has affected most other areas of our governance these past 4 years, & Trump has certainly provided the prosecution with ample amounts of dead-to-rights evidence. I could certainly be wrong, but I think a hypothetical jury would definitely convict.

(Alternatively, a juror acting in bad faith could definitely be removed by a judge - which is what alternate jurors are for, in case of emergencies - but that would undoubtedly just play into any whining about political persecution. And if MAGA idiots do keep forcing mistrials, then a judge might just deny bail & force him to be held on remand while any & all forced retrials take place. If it can be done to Curtis Flowers, then it can be done to Trump too.)

[Wrong about 2024 Ghost]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1345844579992563714

[emailking]

IIRC, even one of the folks on the Manafort jury was a die-hard Trump supporter who nevertheless voted to convict him on 8 of the 18 felony counts.

There was a die hard who wanted to convict on all. There was one holdout on 10 of the charges but I don't think (?) we ever heard about their politics. Just that they had doubt and couldn't be convinced.

[Non Swing Voter]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

Question for the resident lawyers: would this be under the jurisdiction of the Fulton County DA?  (Who happens to be a Democrat, if anyone is wondering.)

do you know where Raffsenberger was located when he received the call?

[Non Swing Voter]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1345844579992563714

Jake is not playing games.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

Question for the resident lawyers: would this be under the jurisdiction of the Fulton County DA?  (Who happens to be a Democrat, if anyone is wondering.)

do you know where Raffsenberger was located when he received the call?

I suppose the assumption is Atlanta, although his old State House district (which is actually now held by a Democrat in fact) is in Fulton County as well. Looks like wealthy northern Fulton suburbia, yep very fitting for a district to give a statewide office nominee and now be held by a Democrat...

[Virginiá]

IIRC, even one of the folks on the Manafort jury was a die-hard Trump supporter who nevertheless voted to convict him on 8 of the 18 felony counts. The legal system has by & large dodged the tarnish that has affected most other areas of our governance these past 4 years, & Trump has certainly provided the prosecution with ample amounts of dead-to-rights evidence. I could certainly be wrong, but I think a hypothetical jury would definitely convict.

The influence of Trump vs one of his underlings is like night and day, and I don't think we've had a bigger display of influence from a president than with Donald Trump. There could easily be a situation where a Trump supporter juror privately thinks he is guilty but still won't say as much, figuring he doesn't deserve to be punished.  Hard to look at the past 4 years and not see a big part of the story as being a modern day snake oil salesman conning half a country strongly primed to eat up the bullsh**t of someone they like.

I think it would come down to where this takes place, and exactly how deep their support for him runs should they draw one of his fans.

[Non Swing Voter]

Also that Raffensperger call alone should be grounds for charges. Hopefully Georgia elects a Democratic Attorney General in 2022!

Are we so polarized that we can’t trust a Republican DA to file charges if merited?

Do you really think a Republican Attorney General could charge Trump and not be dead in the water in the next primary and not have their entire political career be DOA?

Question for the resident lawyers: would this be under the jurisdiction of the Fulton County DA?  (Who happens to be a Democrat, if anyone is wondering.)

do you know where Raffsenberger was located when he received the call?

I suppose the assumption is Atlanta, although his old State House district (which is actually now held by a Democrat in fact) is in Fulton County as well. Looks like wealthy northern Fulton suburbia, yep very fitting for a district to give a statewide office nominee and now be held by a Democrat...

Not going to pretend to be an expert on GA law but if the call took place in Fulton then I don't see why the DA there couldn't prosecute the Georgia statute unless there's something in it that specifically says only the AG would prosecute. 

[Crumpets]

Oh goodie.

https://twitter.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/1345935478860767234