Bernie Sanders offers bill to tax Billionaires wealth gains during pandemic

[Hollywood]

Anybody who was crying about a wealth tax last year looks like a damn fool. Bezos lost 25% of Amazon in a divorce and is richer today than he was before the divorce, He's also sold large chunks of his shares too and yet he's richer than ever. A wealth tax as proposed by Elizabeth Warren on 2% over $50 million and 6% over a billion is needed.

We already have a tax for when people get a lot richer in a particular year, it's called an income tax.

It’s not enough.

If that's the issue why not raise rates, maybe creating some new brackets, rather than a whole new kind of tax?

Because this taxes economic activity and the rate at which one amasses a certain kind of economic power, not the power itself. That can have negative effects in the wider economy beyond a certain level (n.b. not net negative at the current level by a long way, IMO) and also cannot account for people who are so wealthy that they amass power off of interest. Slowing the rate at which more wealth is acquired does not really solve the problem of a class of people wielding excess influence off of the wealth they’ve already amassed.

Scaling down from billionaires as an example, there are often vast differences in the standards of living between households earning the same income because of ownership (or the lack of) property (in addition to other costs-of-living issues, although it’s far more important than most of the rest). Indeed, the black American middle class has especially suffered since the 2008 crisis (compared to exclusively white households with similar income levels) precisely because of property ownership. Income tax can be useful, but often too blunt a tool in isolation.

The Wealth Tax is not levy on economic activity, because it is not a transaction.  It's at tax on the sum of assets and liabilities on your balance sheet, which would fall under a direct tax.  The Federal Government cannot directly tax wealth, and it cannot directly tax Real Estate.  The state can tax Real Estate, and the Federal Government can tax income derived from that property (source of income).  Once someone sells the house (transaction), then the Federal Government can tax the profits of the economic activity as it it is another source of income.  The Supreme Court has directly addressed this issue, and it comports with all previous decisions. It is unconstitutional under Article I, section 9, clause 4, in conjunction with the canons of constitutional interpretation regarding the 16th Amendment. Congress cannot tax a possession.

Additionally, demanding that someone liquidate appreciating assets to pay a tax on wealth that was derived from income already levied by the Federal Government could be argued as a bill of attainder.  If someone owns stock, you've essentially punished them by taxing them before they realized profits from a sale, and you're going to require them to pay capital gains.  You could also be impairing the obligations of a contract you have with investors or a divorce settlement agreement requiring you to hold those shares. 

Then there's the fifth amendment claim.  And it just goes on and on. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There are a variety of constitutional issues for a Federal wealth tax, but definitely not that it could be considered a bill of attainder. If they were, then State and local property taxes would be unconstitutional as bills of attainder are also prohibited to the States.

[Intell]

I feel like a wealth tax is a bad idea- instead increase the capital gains tax and have a land value tax

[Hollywood]

There are a variety of constitutional issues for a Federal wealth tax, but definitely not that it could be considered a bill of attainder. If they were, then State and local property taxes would be unconstitutional as bills of attainder are also prohibited to the States.

No. Cause the state is taxing people at the same rate based on similar houses in the states, and local governments are taking people at the same rate as similar houses in the municipality.  If you choose to live in a municipality, you are obligating yourself to pay taxes for local services.  If you don't live within the municipality, then technically hey don't have to provide services

If the local government made you pay property taxes, and then forced you to pay $1,000 cause they didn't like that your house was blue, then that'a bill of attainder.   They are punishing you without due process.  If they had passed a law and sent you prison after you had just painted your house blue, then its ex pose facto because they criminalized behavior.  

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Blue collar workers either urban or rural werent getting lifted by the economy, before Covid 19. Now white collar workers, with the closures of colleges and Universities have to live off unemployment,  which is a blue collar salary, that's why they insist on 400 to 600 payments to live off of, but after this year, it's not gonna last. But school closures are a permanent problem, telecommunications jobs are the future, not in school classroom learning.

It is might as well, due to fact, we were too focused on a sports ecommerce before Covid 19. Now, we have to adapt to sports not being ever the same

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

There are a variety of constitutional issues for a Federal wealth tax, but definitely not that it could be considered a bill of attainder. If they were, then State and local property taxes would be unconstitutional as bills of attainder are also prohibited to the States.

No. Cause the state is taxing people at the same rate based on similar houses in the states, and local governments are taking people at the same rate as similar houses in the municipality.  If you choose to live in a municipality, you are obligating yourself to pay taxes for local services.  If you don't live within the municipality, then technically hey don't have to provide services

If the local government made you pay property taxes, and then forced you to pay $1,000 cause they didn't like that your house was blue, then that'a bill of attainder.   They are punishing you without due process.  If they had passed a law and sent you prison after you had just painted your house blue, then its ex pose facto because they criminalized behavior.  

So homestead exemptions for the elderly or the disabled are unconstitutional?

Taxing real estate differently based on how it's used is unconstitutional?

For that matter, non-flat income taxes are unconstitutional?

If your argument had any connection to reality, you'd essentially be making all three of the above claims, all of which would get laughed out of court.

I don't think Bernie's proposal is good policy, but we've had various excess profits taxes before and never have there been any successful complaints about their constitutionality.

[Idaho Conservative]

I support this

[Santander]

Once again, thank God for Jim Clyburn.

[GP270watch]

 Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

[GP270watch]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

 Yes because during the Democratic debates people said insane and crazy things about how Democratic ideas were unaffordable or would somehow bankrupt the economy. And since then we've seen that the economy is truly driven by workers including the poorest of workers, The United States Government can find tremendous resources whenever it wants to bailout businesses and the wealthy, the rate of income inequality is out of control. Our tax code is a total failure, with the IRS given poor resources to even try to enforce the laws on the books.

 It's time to stop debate on a wealth tax, it's obviously needed. Because while Republicans and way too many Democrats are stilling drinking the billionaire's Kool-aid, the Republicans are already scheming the next evisceration of the tax code to funnel more wealth to the wealthiest. So let's all agree that a wealth tax is necessary and find the best way to implement it.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

 Yes because during the Democratic debates people said insane and crazy things about how Democratic ideas were unaffordable or would somehow bankrupt the economy. And since then we've seen that the economy is truly driven by workers including the poorest of workers, The United States Government can find tremendous resources whenever it wants to bailout businesses and the wealthy, the rate of income inequality is out of control. Our tax code is a total failure, with the IRS given poor resources to even try to enforce the laws on the books.

 It's time to stop debate on a wealth tax, it's obviously needed. Because while Republicans and way too many Democrats are stilling drinking the billionaire's Kool-aid, the Republicans are already scheming the next evisceration of the tax code to funnel more wealth to the wealthiest. So let's all agree that a wealth tax is necessary and find the best way to implement it.

It's called the estate tax.

Reasonably easy to adminster, and doesn't have any constitutional difficulties.

[GP270watch]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

 Yes because during the Democratic debates people said insane and crazy things about how Democratic ideas were unaffordable or would somehow bankrupt the economy. And since then we've seen that the economy is truly driven by workers including the poorest of workers, The United States Government can find tremendous resources whenever it wants to bailout businesses and the wealthy, the rate of income inequality is out of control. Our tax code is a total failure, with the IRS given poor resources to even try to enforce the laws on the books.

 It's time to stop debate on a wealth tax, it's obviously needed. Because while Republicans and way too many Democrats are stilling drinking the billionaire's Kool-aid, the Republicans are already scheming the next evisceration of the tax code to funnel more wealth to the wealthiest. So let's all agree that a wealth tax is necessary and find the best way to implement it.

It's called the estate tax.

Reasonably easy to adminster, and doesn't have any constitutional difficulties.

 We already have a tax code that has crippled the estate tax with all types of loopholes and tax shelter structures. It also does nothing to address rampant wealth inequality now.

[Badger]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

 Yes because during the Democratic debates people said insane and crazy things about how Democratic ideas were unaffordable or would somehow bankrupt the economy. And since then we've seen that the economy is truly driven by workers including the poorest of workers, The United States Government can find tremendous resources whenever it wants to bailout businesses and the wealthy, the rate of income inequality is out of control. Our tax code is a total failure, with the IRS given poor resources to even try to enforce the laws on the books.

 It's time to stop debate on a wealth tax, it's obviously needed. Because while Republicans and way too many Democrats are stilling drinking the billionaire's Kool-aid, the Republicans are already scheming the next evisceration of the tax code to funnel more wealth to the wealthiest. So let's all agree that a wealth tax is necessary and find the best way to implement it.

It's called the estate tax.

Reasonably easy to adminster, and doesn't have any constitutional difficulties.

 We already have a tax code that has crippled the estate tax with all types of loopholes and tax shelter structures. It also does nothing to address rampant wealth inequality now.

Those loopholes could potentially Theory closed. The other big problem, equally reversible, is the Bush Administration raised the threshold for the estate tax gargantuanly. The current threshold is just over 11 and 1/2 million dollars. That is beyond absurd.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Morons are still arguing against a wealth tax. Meanwhile Republicans are scheming on the next tax policy to rob public coffers and pass more wealth to the rich. They're going to index capital gains to inflation, something that will overwhelmingly benefit the top 1% of shareholders.

 The Republicans will probably get this policy passed too because Americans are bad at math, bad at understanding how policy impacts their everyday lives, and have been brainwashed to be billionaire worshipers.

 Trump is even talking about doing this by executive order and bypassing Congress.

 

Are you really complaining that arguing about a wealth tax is a moronic distraction?  You are the one who brought it up!

 Yes because during the Democratic debates people said insane and crazy things about how Democratic ideas were unaffordable or would somehow bankrupt the economy. And since then we've seen that the economy is truly driven by workers including the poorest of workers, The United States Government can find tremendous resources whenever it wants to bailout businesses and the wealthy, the rate of income inequality is out of control. Our tax code is a total failure, with the IRS given poor resources to even try to enforce the laws on the books.

 It's time to stop debate on a wealth tax, it's obviously needed. Because while Republicans and way too many Democrats are stilling drinking the billionaire's Kool-aid, the Republicans are already scheming the next evisceration of the tax code to funnel more wealth to the wealthiest. So let's all agree that a wealth tax is necessary and find the best way to implement it.

It's called the estate tax.

Reasonably easy to adminster, and doesn't have any constitutional difficulties.

 We already have a tax code that has crippled the estate tax with all types of loopholes and tax shelter structures. It also does nothing to address rampant wealth inequality now.

Then get rid of the loopholes. If you say it can't be done politically, then what makes you think a Federal property tax won't be similarly riddled within a few years?