19-year-old Fmr. Candidate for KS Governor may have just won a State House seat

[tmthforu94]

Here's a good one: does Kansas have in state law that anyone voting in a party primary must vote for that party's nominee in November? I know it's never enforced but as I hate open primaries if Frownfelter wins by a large margin this would be the perfect example to make in court the absurdity of the law. Frownfelter could even be the person Coleman could aggrieve against because Frownfelter would have to admit publicly he did not vote for Coleman and if that law is on the books, then Frownfelter by definition would no longer be a bona fide Democrat.

(We're really going out there I know but I'm doing this because that law in states it does exist is an unenforceable fiction and the fiction is tolerated to have open primaries. If the law exists in Kansas and Frownfelter wins it provides evidence of the fiction and why the law should not exist. A small town near me in 2015 the losing candidate brought this issue up in a lawsuit and it was quite the tempest in a teacup.)

No. I don't think any state does since general election votes are private.

[LtNOWIS]

Here's a good one: does Kansas have in state law that anyone voting in a party primary must vote for that party's nominee in November? I know it's never enforced but as I hate open primaries if Frownfelter wins by a large margin this would be the perfect example to make in court the absurdity of the law. Frownfelter could even be the person Coleman could aggrieve against because Frownfelter would have to admit publicly he did not vote for Coleman and if that law is on the books, then Frownfelter by definition would no longer be a bona fide Democrat.

(We're really going out there I know but I'm doing this because that law in states it does exist is an unenforceable fiction and the fiction is tolerated to have open primaries. If the law exists in Kansas and Frownfelter wins it provides evidence of the fiction and why the law should not exist. A small town near me in 2015 the losing candidate brought this issue up in a lawsuit and it was quite the tempest in a teacup.)

No. I don't think any state does since general election votes are private.

The closest thing would be that, when the party runs the process, they can make you sign a pledge to vote for that party in a general election. So not an actual primary, but a "firehouse primary," convention, mass meeting, etc., like we have in Virginia sometimes.

But those are unenforceable and legally meaningless for the reasons you pointed out.

[AtorBoltox]

Here's a good one: does Kansas have in state law that anyone voting in a party primary must vote for that party's nominee in November? I know it's never enforced but as I hate open primaries if Frownfelter wins by a large margin this would be the perfect example to make in court the absurdity of the law. Frownfelter could even be the person Coleman could aggrieve against because Frownfelter would have to admit publicly he did not vote for Coleman and if that law is on the books, then Frownfelter by definition would no longer be a bona fide Democrat.

(We're really going out there I know but I'm doing this because that law in states it does exist is an unenforceable fiction and the fiction is tolerated to have open primaries. If the law exists in Kansas and Frownfelter wins it provides evidence of the fiction and why the law should not exist. A small town near me in 2015 the losing candidate brought this issue up in a lawsuit and it was quite the tempest in a teacup.)

The right to a secret ballot is absolute

[StateBoiler]

Here's a good one: does Kansas have in state law that anyone voting in a party primary must vote for that party's nominee in November? I know it's never enforced but as I hate open primaries if Frownfelter wins by a large margin this would be the perfect example to make in court the absurdity of the law. Frownfelter could even be the person Coleman could aggrieve against because Frownfelter would have to admit publicly he did not vote for Coleman and if that law is on the books, then Frownfelter by definition would no longer be a bona fide Democrat.

(We're really going out there I know but I'm doing this because that law in states it does exist is an unenforceable fiction and the fiction is tolerated to have open primaries. If the law exists in Kansas and Frownfelter wins it provides evidence of the fiction and why the law should not exist. A small town near me in 2015 the losing candidate brought this issue up in a lawsuit and it was quite the tempest in a teacup.)

Does any state have that law? This is the first I've heard of anything like that.

Indiana does due to having no party registration. The law is meant to stop true Republicans from voting in Democratic primaries and vice versa, but like I said is completely unenforceable. It's a dumb law I mostly blame on open primaries.

Created this issue in a small town in my county back in 2015. https://www.wane.com/news/ballot-mix-ups-in-woodburn-prompt-special-election/

This is from Ballotpedia:

https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_elections_in_Indiana

•Indiana state law stipulates that, in order to participate in a party's primary, a voter must have either voted for a majority of that party's nominees in the last general election or must intend to vote for a majority of the party's nominees in the upcoming general election. However, according to FairVote, this provision of the law is unenforceable due to the nature of secret balloting. Consequently, a voter in Indiana is permitted to vote in the partisan primary of his or her choosing.

The right to a secret ballot is absolute .

Yes, but if Frownfelter runs against the nominee of the Democratic Party in the general election, then Frownfelter is no longer a bona fide Democrat.

This is all a philosophy argument because I imagine if said laws exist in Kansas, they will just be ignored (which if so, shouldn't they just be repealed by the legislature?). I'm pointing out the idiocy of these types of laws to start with.

[tmthforu94]

I wish I had better news, but I don't. At this point, I think Coleman is still the favorite. Just from what I've seen on the ground. There are quite a bit of Coleman signs across the district. He is treating the campaign like a full time job and is reportedly spending 50 hours a week knocking on doors. I haven't seen nearly as much activity from the incumbent or the GOP write-in, and a strong grassroots campaign is necessary in order to win a write-in race.

[brucejoel99]

I wish I had better news, but I don't. At this point, I think Coleman is still the favorite. Just from what I've seen on the ground. There are quite a bit of Coleman signs across the district. He is treating the campaign like a full time job and is reportedly spending 50 hours a week knocking on doors. I haven't seen nearly as much activity from the incumbent or the GOP write-in, and a strong grassroots campaign is necessary in order to win a write-in race.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/election/article246171185.html

He threatened to perpetrate a school shooting.

Again, expel him unanimously. If it's not legal to expel him ex post facto, pass a state constitutional amendment making it legal and then expel him.

[Crane]

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/election/article246171185.html

He threatened to perpetrate a school shooting.

Again, expel him unanimously. If it's not legal to expel him ex post facto, pass a state constitutional amendment making it legal and then expel him.

WTF? That dude is crazy.

[Nutmeg]

How is this person a Dem? There's an entire other party that exists for people like him.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How is this person a Dem? There's an entire other party that exists for people like him.

He's not a Dem. He's a hard-line authoritarian communist with a fetish for political violence posing as a DemSoc.

[GlobeSoc]

How is this person a Dem? There's an entire other party that exists for people like him.

He's not a Dem. He's a hard-line authoritarian communist with a fetish for political violence posing as a DemSoc.

yeah, tbh its kind of bizarre that such a candidate is favored to win a state house seat and doesn't reflect well on american politics. hard left, socialists, and even non-authoritarian communists are one thing, but bolsheviks aren't cool

[LtNOWIS]

How is this person a Dem? There's an entire other party that exists for people like him.

He's not a Dem. He's a hard-line authoritarian communist with a fetish for political violence posing as a DemSoc.

yeah, tbh its kind of bizarre that such a candidate is favored to win a state house seat and doesn't reflect well on american politics. hard left, socialists, and even non-authoritarian communists are one thing, but bolsheviks aren't cool

Well, I apologize if you've heard this all before, but for anyone who isn't aware, US parties are very different than European parties. They are really just labels for people to run on, and overlapping, loosely affiliated organizations. Parties typically do not have the ability to prevent someone from running in a primary or being a party. Even if every party official and active party member loathes somebody, they can say they're a member of that party, run in the primary, and make their case to a broader electorate.

[Adam Griffin]

My guilty pleasure of sorts is that I hope Coleman gets elected to one term, gets shunned, and then we get a normal progressive Dem for the seat in 2022 who actually represents the district.

I didn't dig in-depth through Frownfelter's voting record, but I did notice one fairly common phenomenon: whenever the votes were approximately 2:1 on a bill (i.e. more or less the partisan breakdown of the chamber), he was almost always on the winning side.

This more or less tells me that Frownfelter is a conservadem who's been riding on incumbency throughout his career but not actually representing the voters of his district. If he were to win a write-in campaign this year, he'd just end up entrenched once again - whereas if he loses, one or more qualified progressive challengers will seek the office in 2022 and we'll be rid of both of them.

I'd rather deal with an impotent loser for 2 years than a conservadem for another 20.

[GlobeSoc]

How is this person a Dem? There's an entire other party that exists for people like him.

He's not a Dem. He's a hard-line authoritarian communist with a fetish for political violence posing as a DemSoc.

yeah, tbh its kind of bizarre that such a candidate is favored to win a state house seat and doesn't reflect well on american politics. hard left, socialists, and even non-authoritarian communists are one thing, but bolsheviks aren't cool

Well, I apologize if you've heard this all before, but for anyone who isn't aware, US parties are very different than European parties. They are really just labels for people to run on, and overlapping, loosely affiliated organizations. Parties typically do not have the ability to prevent someone from running in a primary or being a party. Even if every party official and active party member loathes somebody, they can say they're a member of that party, run in the primary, and make their case to a broader electorate.

the primary system just means that people that would otherwise be in formalized political parties form ideological factions of the parties. A european system implemented on the current united states would be less toxic, but fundamentally the american electorate itself has a very high degree of toxicity. I don't think it would truly make that much of a difference in candidate quality if the system changed as a result.

[Oryxslayer]

https://twitter.com/kcmikehendricks/status/1312377142756474882?s=20

This wasn't posted here earlier so I'll just do it.

[America Needs R'hllor]

My guilty pleasure of sorts is that I hope Coleman gets elected to one term, gets shunned, and then we get a normal progressive Dem for the seat in 2022 who actually represents the district.

I didn't dig in-depth through Frownfelter's voting record, but I did notice one fairly common phenomenon: whenever the votes were approximately 2:1 on a bill (i.e. more or less the partisan breakdown of the chamber), he was almost always on the winning side.

This more or less tells me that Frownfelter is a conservadem who's been riding on incumbency throughout his career but not actually representing the voters of his district. If he were to win a write-in campaign this year, he'd just end up entrenched once again - whereas if he loses, one or more qualified progressive challengers will seek the office in 2022 and we'll be rid of both of them.

I'd rather deal with an impotent loser for 2 years than a conservadem for another 20.

I respect you and your opinion a lot, but I do feel like this is kind of a failure of the Atlasmind, or generally political nerd minds. We won't have to "deal" with Frownfelter- as bad as he is, he's just one state legislator in one of 50 states, and a pretty Republican state at that. His influence on any Kansans on his district is small, it's extremely minimal for the rest of the people of Kansas, and it's non-existent for you or any other non-Kansas resident.

It's that much more important to draw a line and say "hey, if you- Republicans, Democrats, far-right or far-left-" run a candidate who's so foul, so much of a scum, he'll not get elected. We'll find a way to reject him. In this particular instance, it's important to draw a line for the American far-left and say that they better stop excusing horrible actions for ideological purity. It's so much more important and has a lot more meaning than if a random state legislator whose policy positions aren't great gets entrenched for a few more years.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

https://twitter.com/kcmikehendricks/status/1312377142756474882?s=20

This wasn't posted here earlier so I'll just do it.

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus Christ.

[free my dawg]

Get him outta here!

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Jesus. Christ. Every. Time. I. Check. This. Thread. This. Gets. Even. Crazier.

Aaron Coleman why? why??

[StateBoiler]

Aaron Coleman why? why??

Well, it's who the Democratic Party primary voters of this district picked to represent them.

Personally, I'm in favor of more control for parties and vetting of who should be allowed to run for them. But the two main parties either don't believe in this or their voters would throw a fit. The two parties as they presently exist are incredibly weak entities that function as little more than ballot lines.

[Figueira]

Aaron Coleman why? why??

Well, it's who the Democratic Party primary voters of this district picked to represent them.

Personally, I'm in favor of more control for parties and vetting of who should be allowed to run for them. But the two main parties either don't believe in this or their voters would throw a fit. The two parties as they presently exist are incredibly weak entities that function as little more than ballot lines.

I don't really see the problem with the parties functioning as ballot lines. If we can't have third parties, we need to give voters choice in who the major parties nominate, or else the party bosses end up deciding everything. I see your yellow avatar so I know you're in favor of third parties, but we'd need to change the system to encourage third parties first before we limit participation in the nominating process.

[StateBoiler]

Aaron Coleman why? why??

Well, it's who the Democratic Party primary voters of this district picked to represent them.

Personally, I'm in favor of more control for parties and vetting of who should be allowed to run for them. But the two main parties either don't believe in this or their voters would throw a fit. The two parties as they presently exist are incredibly weak entities that function as little more than ballot lines.

I don't really see the problem with the parties functioning as ballot lines. If we can't have third parties, we need to give voters choice in who the major parties nominate, or else the party bosses end up deciding everything. I see your yellow avatar so I know you're in favor of third parties, but we'd need to change the system to encourage third parties first before we limit participation in the nominating process.

Voluntary groups have the right of association that includes the right to decline members. We're off a period where a non-Republican in Donald Trump hijacked the whole national party in 2016, and a non-Democrat in Bernie Sanders almost succeeded twice in hijacking the whole national party as well. Unless both parties start becoming organized, they're going to rapidly descend down the rabbit hole because primary voter percentage rates is incredibly low and filled with the most diehard passionate partisans and ideologues.

[Crane]

Aaron Coleman why? why??

Well, it's who the Democratic Party primary voters of this district picked to represent them.

Personally, I'm in favor of more control for parties and vetting of who should be allowed to run for them. But the two main parties either don't believe in this or their voters would throw a fit. The two parties as they presently exist are incredibly weak entities that function as little more than ballot lines.

I don't really see the problem with the parties functioning as ballot lines. If we can't have third parties, we need to give voters choice in who the major parties nominate, or else the party bosses end up deciding everything. I see your yellow avatar so I know you're in favor of third parties, but we'd need to change the system to encourage third parties first before we limit participation in the nominating process.

 non-Democrat in Bernie Sanders almost succeeded twice in hijacking the whole national party as well.

Bernie Sanders is more of a Democrat than right-wing Joe Lieberman who did hijack the party and was on a presidential ticket.

[StateBoiler]

Aaron Coleman why? why??

Well, it's who the Democratic Party primary voters of this district picked to represent them.

Personally, I'm in favor of more control for parties and vetting of who should be allowed to run for them. But the two main parties either don't believe in this or their voters would throw a fit. The two parties as they presently exist are incredibly weak entities that function as little more than ballot lines.

I don't really see the problem with the parties functioning as ballot lines. If we can't have third parties, we need to give voters choice in who the major parties nominate, or else the party bosses end up deciding everything. I see your yellow avatar so I know you're in favor of third parties, but we'd need to change the system to encourage third parties first before we limit participation in the nominating process.

 non-Democrat in Bernie Sanders almost succeeded twice in hijacking the whole national party as well.

Bernie Sanders is more of a Democrat than right-wing Joe Lieberman who did hijack the party and was on a presidential ticket.

Sanders was not a Democrat. That is not an opinion. That is a fact, and no one can state that fact is wrong while maintaining credibility in this discussion.

Lieberman was first elected as a Democrat to the Connecticut State Senate in 1970 and served 3 terms as Majority Leader there. So not only was he a Democrat, but the elected Democrats in that legislative body determined that he was their leader. If you're saying he should have been kicked out over time as either he went away from Democratic Party orthodoxy or the Democratic Party orthodoxy left him, please provide the procedures and qualifications necessary for purging according to the Rules and Bylaws of the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Party Caucus in the United States Senate. And once you've purged Lieberman from the party, go through every sitting U.S. Representative, U.S. Senator, Governor, Lieutenant Governor, elected state constitutional officer, state legislator, and mayor, and apply the exact same standard to them that you applied to Lieberman.

[StateBoiler]

Any new news on this race as far as how it looks it will turn out? Only thing I see google searching is a couple news articles from the Kansas City Star bashing Coleman and endorsing Frownfelter as a write-in.