Opinion of the Equality of all before God?

[Blue3]

The equality of all before God -- no individual, family, ethnicity, race, tribe or nation is inherently favored or loved by God more than any other, though of course people may have different destinies and challenges -- this also includes the equality of men and women, as well as same-sex desires/relations/marriages not being sinful, because gender isn't a factor in God's moral law.

Opinions?

[brucejoel99]

The concept that demographic factors don't confer favored status upon somebody is a pretty basic Christian teaching, but many Christians are still gonna be loathe to condone same-sex marriages. Equality between men & women is tricky: men & women can be seen as equal in Christ, but they can also just as easily be seen as having different roles to play in the life of the church.

[Blue3]

The concept that demographic factors don't confer favored status upon somebody is a pretty basic Christian teaching, but many Christians are still gonna be loathe to condone same-sex marriages. Equality between men & women is tricky: men & women can be seen as equal in Christ, but they can also just as easily be seen as having different roles to play in the life of the church.

I just wonder how people can argue that gender alone can determine them having different roles to play in the church. It shouldn't matter more than a person's skin color, which is not at all.

[Associate Justice PiT]

The concept that demographic factors don't confer favored status upon somebody is a pretty basic Christian teaching, but many Christians are still gonna be loathe to condone same-sex marriages. Equality between men & women is tricky: men & women can be seen as equal in Christ, but they can also just as easily be seen as having different roles to play in the life of the church.

I just wonder how people can argue that gender alone can determine them having different roles to play in the church. It shouldn't matter more than a person's skin color, which is not at all.

     Men and women were ordained to complete each other by joining as one flesh and forming a household together. C.S. Lewis compares this to a lock and a key. The sexes are different, and this difference reflects God's intended purpose for human sexuality, which as all parts of human life is inextricably linked to the Church. There is simply no comparison to skin color here.

[°Leprechaun]

I voted atheist, but I do believe in egalitarianism in the sense that all humans are equally human. No one is more inherently holy than any one else, but people can make "good" or "bad"* choices which makes some people better off than others. The inherent worth of every human? The inner light?

I don't like the word "god" in the first place because it implies that "god" is male.

There is certainly a lot of "sexism" in orthodoxy, (in my ever so humble opinion, anyway)

I prefer the word "Supreme Being" or "Divine Being" or "The Tao" (or other eastern concepts).

I don't also reject (in a purely literalistic way) the concept of a Higher Power. If the Divine is Supreme it is not a Higher Power, but The Highest Power (which Supreme Being implies, I would think).

I saw a bumper sticker once, "God doesn't believe in atheists".
I had a bumper sticker once, "God is too big to fit into one religion".
I had another bumper sticker "My Karma ran over my Dogma."

*this depends on how one defines "good" and "bad"

[Former President tack50]

The concept that demographic factors don't confer favored status upon somebody is a pretty basic Christian teaching, but many Christians are still gonna be loathe to condone same-sex marriages. Equality between men & women is tricky: men & women can be seen as equal in Christ, but they can also just as easily be seen as having different roles to play in the life of the church.

I just wonder how people can argue that gender alone can determine them having different roles to play in the church. It shouldn't matter more than a person's skin color, which is not at all.

     Men and women were ordained to complete each other by joining as one flesh and forming a household together. C.S. Lewis compares this to a lock and a key. The sexes are different, and this difference reflects God's intended purpose for human sexuality, which as all parts of human life is inextricably linked to the Church. There is simply no comparison to skin color here.

I will say the lock and key analogy is probably one of the worst ones out there, and to be honest when I see it I almost always see it in a way that tries to shame women that have many partners while justifying men that do; almost to the point where it has become a meme of sorts ("A key that opens every door is a master key; a lock opened by any key is garbage")

[TDAS04]

Definitely agree.  

To the whole notion that men and women have different roles—you can claim that there are biological differences between the sexes, and that in general men and women act in particular ways—but I find the notion that an individual who deviates from the typical behavior of their sex is not just a bit unusual, but sinful, to be rather absurd.  Not only are women kept in a subordinate, second-class role in religious and daily life, but such a mindset can lead to the thinking that men who “act like women” are evil!

Complementarians claim to believe in equal value, just that men and women “each have their own unique roles”.  Complementarianism certainly results in different roles, but I don’t see the equality.  It results in women having no role in decision-making in any aspect of religious or public life.  “The helper” must do everything “the head” says.  Unless women have equal roles in religious authority, and in rule-making for society, I doubt the system is what our just and loving God favors.

[PSOL]

Why must we be “before” god, why isn’t he humble enough to be beside us?

[afleitch]

Definitely agree.  

To the whole notion that men and women have different roles—you can claim that there are biological differences between the sexes, and that in general men and women act in particular ways—but I find the notion that an individual who deviates from the typical behavior of their sex is not just a bit unusual, but sinful, to be rather absurd.  Not only are women kept in a subordinate, second-class role in religious and daily life, but such a mindset can lead to the thinking that men who “act like women” are evil!

Complementarians claim to believe in equal value, just that men and women “each have their own unique roles”.  Complementarianism certainly results in different roles, but I don’t see the equality.  It results in women having no role in decision-making in any aspect of religious or public life.  “The helper” must do everything “the head” says.  Unless women have equal roles in religious authority, and in rule-making for society, I doubt the system is what our just and loving God favors.

That revealed religions, codified by men seem to reflect existing and maintained advantageous divisions between men and women shouldn't be a surprise. Sadly, nor should the attempts to retcon this to make it something mandated by god.

[Kingpoleon]

I voted atheist, but I do believe in egalitarianism in the sense that all humans are equally human. No one is more inherently holy than any one else, but people can make "good" or "bad"* choices which makes some people better off than others. The inherent worth of every human? The inner light?

I don't like the word "god" in the first place because it implies that "god" is male.

There is certainly a lot of "sexism" in orthodoxy, (in my ever so humble opinion, anyway)

I prefer the word "Supreme Being" or "Divine Being" or "The Tao" (or other eastern concepts).

I don't also reject (in a purely literalistic way) the concept of a Higher Power. If the Divine is Supreme it is not a Higher Power, but The Highest Power (which Supreme Being implies, I would think).

I saw a bumper sticker once, "God doesn't believe in atheists".
I had a bumper sticker once, "God is too big to fit into one religion".
I had another bumper sticker "My Karma ran over my Dogma."

*this depends on how one defines "good" and "bad"

God is generally now a gender-neutral term. Anybody who overly insists on gendering God must have some strange, unbiblical, anthropomorphic view of God.

I do take serious issue, too, with comparing Christ and the church with men and women. Christ without the church is all powerful - the church without Christ is an empty vessel. Is man without woman at all like Christ without the church?

[Associate Justice PiT]

The concept that demographic factors don't confer favored status upon somebody is a pretty basic Christian teaching, but many Christians are still gonna be loathe to condone same-sex marriages. Equality between men & women is tricky: men & women can be seen as equal in Christ, but they can also just as easily be seen as having different roles to play in the life of the church.

I just wonder how people can argue that gender alone can determine them having different roles to play in the church. It shouldn't matter more than a person's skin color, which is not at all.

     Men and women were ordained to complete each other by joining as one flesh and forming a household together. C.S. Lewis compares this to a lock and a key. The sexes are different, and this difference reflects God's intended purpose for human sexuality, which as all parts of human life is inextricably linked to the Church. There is simply no comparison to skin color here.

I will say the lock and key analogy is probably one of the worst ones out there, and to be honest when I see it I almost always see it in a way that tries to shame women that have many partners while justifying men that do; almost to the point where it has become a meme of sorts ("A key that opens every door is a master key; a lock opened by any key is garbage")

     Pretty sure that is not what C.S. Lewis intended with that analogy. The point is more that man and woman were made to go together. Fornication is a serious sin, for anyone.

[gerritcole]

I thought all of us gotta little bit of God in us and so all are equal

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Why must we be “before” god, why isn’t he humble enough to be beside us?

Mainly because we stiff-necked idiots would mostly refuse to believe that any being that is humble can't possibly be god.

[HillGoose]

atheist, but if god exists this can't be true.

god would hate me just as much as everybody else does.