Opinion on the frequency of the term "Marxist" nowadays
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  Opinion on the frequency of the term "Marxist" nowadays
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Author Topic: Opinion on the frequency of the term "Marxist" nowadays  (Read 753 times)
Mr. Matt
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« on: July 26, 2020, 08:01:25 AM »
« edited: July 26, 2020, 04:07:31 PM by TexasGurl »

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dead0man
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2020, 08:22:45 AM »

Same as my opinion of a different set of idiots wearing a different color hat who go around saying Nazi all the time.  HP
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2020, 09:01:42 AM »

Empty signifier. Worse, because the phrase also refers to a--albeit at times ridiculous--school of social thought, its employ as an insult detracts from our intellectual bandwidth.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2020, 10:11:45 AM »

It’s a useful way of identifying when someone isn’t worth paying attention to
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PSOL
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »

While I agree that it’s pretty much meaning things conservatives don’t like, I can get why it’s overused as a shibboleth. The people that use it don’t care about definitions that don’t relate to them, and they see anything that is perceived to threaten their status and/or wealth in society as a threat. So no matter how stretched out, or untrue honestly, it may be it doesn’t matter. A “Marxist” thing is something that threatens them.

That said, I don’t know how effective that is over labeling people SJWs for the younger edgelords. Saying everything is Marxist

A) shows how much of a boomer you are
B) exposes your insane privileges and position in class, or how you perceive yourself

Compared to SJW which is more younger and more spread out I think. But different times and circumstances call for using past techniques and mental deflection I suppose.
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2020, 10:35:15 AM »

Same as my opinion of a different set of idiots wearing a different color hat who go around saying Nazi all the time.  HP

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SevenEleven
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2020, 12:28:52 PM »

Fuzzy on ignore where he belongs prevents me from having this unrestrained rubbish show in every thread.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2020, 02:07:21 PM »

Harpo was my favorite.
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sparkey
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2020, 02:33:28 PM »

Highly inaccurate, not all of the mob are Marxists. A lot of them are Proudhonists.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2020, 02:52:05 PM »

It's being used because BLM co-founders Patrisse Cullors and Alicia Garza have described themselves as "trained Marxists".  That's their own words in a friendly interview.  An unforced self-description.

Sparkey's description of many of the rioters as Proudhonists is accurate.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2020, 02:53:20 PM »

Meh... you mean the way it is increasingly applied by Trumpists to anyone who protests against police violence or racism as some form of all-purpose, but ultimately pretty unspecified, boogeyman description in order to avoid actually discussing police violence or racism?

Pretty moronic, I'd say. And annoying, which is maybe even the point: "to troll the libs".



As for the term "Marxist" itself irrespective of the recent political instrumentalization by the American Right: Seems to cover a pretty broad spectrum and therefore it really necessitates further specification which branch of Marxism a Marxist belongs to in order to carry any true meaning. Joseph Stalin was a Marxist. So were Theodor Adorno and the Frankfurt School. So were Jean-Paul Sartre, Bertolt Brecht, and Pier Paolo Pasolini. So were a huge chunk of the leaders of the Bauhaus. Mother Theresa was Catholic... so was Timothy McVeigh.
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John Dule
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2020, 02:57:16 PM »

Both Marxists and anti-Marxists tend to overestimate the degree to which left-wing revolutionaries are influenced by Marx. The communist movements in Vietnam, China, and Korea, for example, were surely led by people who were familiar with Marxist philosophy. However, the average peasant in any of those countries had obviously never read Marx, and cared more about a non-ideological fight against the landholding classes and imperial powers. I guess you could say that these sentiments are Marxist in a sense, but I think they're better described as populist rage and nationalism.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2020, 03:14:28 PM »

Meh... you mean the way it is increasingly applied by Trumpists to anyone who protests against police violence or racism as some form of all-purpose, but ultimately pretty unspecified, boogeyman description in order to avoid actually discussing police violence or racism?

Pretty moronic, I'd say. And annoying, which is maybe even the point: "to troll the libs".



As for the term "Marxist" itself irrespective of the recent political instrumentalization by the American Right: Seems to cover a pretty broad spectrum and therefore it really necessitates further specification which branch of Marxism a Marxist belongs to in order to carry any true meaning. Joseph Stalin was a Marxist. So were Theodor Adorno and the Frankfurt School. So were Jean-Paul Sartre, Bertolt Brecht, and Pier Paolo Pasolini. So were a huge chunk of the leaders of the Bauhaus. Mother Theresa was Catholic... so was Timothy McVeigh.

Most Marxists in our Society do not openly advertise that fact.  In BLM, we have co-founders who have actually admitted this.  Why would "trained Marxists" lead a non-Marxist movement is beyond me.  Why people who identify with BLM would deny Marxism is twofold; some would do so because they are not really Marxists, but are "fellow travelers" along for the ride for whatever reason, or they don't really understand that it's Marxism they've signed up for.  (If you teach a person to adhere to all of Marx and Lenin's teachings without attaching names to them, a person can honestly deny being a Marxist-Leninist.)  The more likely reason is that Marxists in America are more powerful when they simply be Marxists but don't admit to being one; it gives them rhetorical defense when attacked.

Sparkey is right; many of the current rioters are Proudhonists.   A lot of people here cheering on the Mob here aren't actual Marxists; they've merely deluded themselves into believing that this mob is something other than it is because what this Mob is actually doing does conflict with many of the principles of the supporters.  They are not Marxists, but they are doing things to help Marxists; that part is plain as day.

It may not be too late for Joe Biden to make some kind of statement unequivocally condemning all of the riots to the point where he also calls for the peaceful protesters to cease.  And he should; the words of the peaceful protesters have been heard; their presence on the street only fuels the rioting criminals.  If they are truly "peaceful", Biden ought to challenge them to act unselfishly for the sake of peace in our cities.  "No Justice!  No Peace!" is a falsehood; there cannot be justice without peace, just as there cannot be liberty without order.  If Biden were to do this, it would anger the far left, but it would convince normal Americans that he knows right from wrong and has the courage to act on it.  (It would also have the effect of quelling much of the talk that he's senile.)  It may not be too late.  Then, again, it may be.  2020 is turning out to be the year where sensible liberals lost their minds and their perspective and sided with the anti-American left that hates them and wants to destroy the very country all of us live in.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2020, 03:26:42 PM »

Marxism is a very specific term that I don't think necessarily applies to even most communists or people who hail from the far-left end of the spectrum.  Dialectical materialism, for instance, is a rather central tenet of Marxism that anyone who refuses to proclaim that the material world, perceptible to the senses, has objective reality independent of mind or spirit, cannot be a Marxist by definition.  A precondition to believing that would be outright denial of God, so it would be absurd to call BLM a "Marxist movement" considering the number of faith leaders who are a part of it.

Any accusation that BLM is Marxist should be dismissed with a simple "ok boomer" and left at that.
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PSOL
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2020, 03:38:38 PM »

I believe a co-founder of BLM endorsed Elizabeth Warren for President over Sanders, so I’m not sure how strong that label is.

Anyway, most BLM organizers are angsty middle class liberals tired of the way things are, with like the majority of supporters being disaffected African Americans also tired of the state, coming in urban working class varieties or Church groups. There’s also Black Liberation and socialist groups on the ground, but they’re smaller than the other groups in numbers and recognition.

The people in Portland aren’t from an irrelevant tendency of Anarchism but disaffected people angry of their living standards dropping due to the Trump Administration. I mean, no doubt there’s a few insurrectionary anarchists using black bloc tactics in the PNW since the 90s, but I think the old guard is drowned off by people that are currently now angry at their livelihoods being lost and their homes invaded by the newly created American gendarmerie called the DHS officially.

Scott said it best, just go “ok boomer” and leave it at that.
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Crane
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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2020, 03:41:52 PM »

When Republican Party messaging is calling Joe Biden a noted radical Marxist, it's being overused and misunderstood.

And, like many things reactionaries spout off about, it would be a lot cooler if it was true.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2020, 04:04:32 PM »

Same as my opinion of a different set of idiots wearing a different color hat who go around saying Nazi all the time.  HP

BoTh SiDeS dO iT1!1!1

Deadoman would make a great career as NYT editor or Meet the Press host.
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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 04:09:21 PM »

It is just as idiotic to call every leftist a Marxist as it is to call anyone to the right of Nelson Rockefeller a Fascist.
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afleitch
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« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2020, 04:19:03 PM »

In the 20's everything remotely left of centre was Bolshevik
In the 50's everything remotely left of centre was Communist.
In the 80's everything remotely left of centre was Socialist.
In the 00's everything remotely left of centre was Liberal.
In the 10's everything remotely left of centre was Socialist...again.
In the 20's everything remotely left of centre is Marxist.

In the 00's everything that advanced minorities or asked for a correction of attitudes was P.C.
In the 10's everything that advanced minorities or asked for a correction of attitudes was SJW.
In the 20's everything that advanced minorities or asked for a correction of attitudes is Cancel Culture.

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dead0man
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« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2020, 05:58:05 PM »

Same as my opinion of a different set of idiots wearing a different color hat who go around saying Nazi all the time.  HP

BoTh SiDeS dO iT1!1!1
indeed, just like most things.  Sure, sometimes one side is worse about it than the other...I'd say the left is worse on this one than the right (marxist is marginally better than nazi).  Perhaps that's why my post triggered you so much?
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2020, 05:59:55 PM »

It's ridiculous, according to Charlie Kirk from Toilet Paper USA Mike Braun is a marxist.

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Harry
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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2020, 08:11:48 PM »

Same as my opinion of a different set of idiots wearing a different color hat who go around saying Nazi all the time.  HP

BoTh SiDeS dO iT1!1!1
indeed, just like most things.  Sure, sometimes one side is worse about it than the other...I'd say the left is worse on this one than the right (marxist is marginally better than nazi).  Perhaps that's why my post triggered you so much?
If you honestly think the Left is worse about this issue, you should look a little more closely. Hell, just use the Search feature here for Marxist and Nazi.
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Yellowhammer
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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2020, 09:17:21 PM »

It's unfortunate that we need to use it so often, since the ideology is so pervasive
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Crane
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2020, 01:55:41 AM »

It's unfortunate that we need to use it so often, since the ideology is so pervasive

Lol

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Badger
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 08:13:18 PM »

It's being used because BLM co-founders Patrisse Cullors and Alicia Garza have described themselves as "trained Marxists".  That's their own words in a friendly interview.  An unforced self-description.

Sparkey's description of many of the rioters as Proudhonists is accurate.

Just curious oh, fuzzy. Would you be more at ease if they were untrained marxists? I mean, my wife went to a quiet sitting on the lawn of our church with several other mothers and quietly held black lives matters sign getting a combination of hogs in the occasional Dofus yelling all lives matter from their cars, the last 2 weeks. She's very interested in where she could get her Marxist certificate. Is there at least a Marxist in training certification she could get? Please advise.
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