1964: Margaret Chase Smith as the GOP nominee
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  1964: Margaret Chase Smith as the GOP nominee
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Author Topic: 1964: Margaret Chase Smith as the GOP nominee  (Read 554 times)
Escape Pod Zero
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« on: July 24, 2020, 04:48:45 PM »

How does she do? My guess is that she wins a lot of the normally republican plains states, but there is a southern backlash similar to 1960.
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morgankingsley
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2020, 08:13:53 PM »

Wallace creates a splitter from the dems and wins AL, MS, SC, AR, GA, LA, TN, and VA. Chase wins that block of middle ish states and remains competitive in most others but Johnson still easily wins overall
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2020, 08:30:13 PM »

Chase Smith does worse than Goldwater, largely because of sexism.

She wins nothing.

Wallace sweeps the South (with the exception of Texas), while Johnson wins everything else.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2020, 11:33:56 PM »
« Edited: July 24, 2020, 11:39:07 PM by Alben Barkley »

Chase Smith does worse than Goldwater, largely because of sexism.

She wins nothing.

Wallace sweeps the South (with the exception of Texas), while Johnson wins everything else.

If Wallace runs in this scenario (which is probably pretty likely), yeah he definitely wins Mississippi and Alabama, likely GA/SC/LA too. Same Southern states that Goldwater won in other words. But LBJ still wins the rest of the South as well as Arizona, so his win is just bigger.

If for some reason Wallace or another Dixiecrat doesn’t run third party, there is a very real chance of a 50 state sweep. The Deep South would have no reason to vote for Smith as she was moderate on civil rights and sexism would be a bigger factor there than most of the rest of the country. They might begrudgingly vote for LBJ, still a southern Democrat, by default.

However, Smith's loss wouldn’t be just or even — in my opinion — mostly because of sexism. LBJ successfully made Goldwater out to be a dangerous extremist who would start a nuclear war based on remarks he made about using nukes in Vietnam. That would be even easier to do to Smith, as she called for a preemptive direct nuclear strike on the USSR. So the situation would be even worse for her than Goldwater on every level: Yes sexism would be a factor, she could be even more easily portrayed as someone not to be trusted with nuclear weapons, her moderate views on civil rights and other social issues would give conservatives in the South and elsewhere no reason to vote for her, and LBJ would still be a popular incumbent running on the legacy of the martyred JFK. It would be an absolute rout. LBJ got the biggest popular vote share in the modern era as it was; against Smith he might have racked up Thomas Jefferson or James Monroe level numbers.

The ONLY area I see Smith improving on over Goldwater is New England, where she was from and where Yankee Republicans recoiled against Goldwater but may not have done so against her to the same extent. I still doubt she wins any states though. Vermont and of course Maine would probably be her best shots.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2020, 11:46:15 PM »

Wallace creates a splitter from the dems and wins AL, MS, SC, AR, GA, LA, TN, and VA. Chase wins that block of middle ish states and remains competitive in most others but Johnson still easily wins overall

Wallace would not have won AR, TN, or VA.

Smith would not have been competitive in almost any state for the reasons I explained.
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jfern
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 11:53:06 PM »

Chase Smith does worse than Goldwater, largely because of sexism.

She wins nothing.

Wallace sweeps the South (with the exception of Texas), while Johnson wins everything else.

I think she'd probably win at least 1 of ID, NE, or KS.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2020, 12:30:23 AM »

Chase Smith does worse than Goldwater, largely because of sexism.

She wins nothing.

Wallace sweeps the South (with the exception of Texas), while Johnson wins everything else.

I think she'd probably win at least 1 of ID, NE, or KS.

I refer you to this answer, which explains it far better than I could.

If Wallace runs in this scenario (which is probably pretty likely), yeah he definitely wins Mississippi and Alabama, likely GA/SC/LA too. Same Southern states that Goldwater won in other words. But LBJ still wins the rest of the South as well as Arizona, so his win is just bigger.

If for some reason Wallace or another Dixiecrat doesn’t run third party, there is a very real chance of a 50 state sweep. The Deep South would have no reason to vote for Smith as she was moderate on civil rights and sexism would be a bigger factor there than most of the rest of the country. They might begrudgingly vote for LBJ, still a southern Democrat, by default.

However, Smith's loss wouldn’t be just or even — in my opinion — mostly because of sexism. LBJ successfully made Goldwater out to be a dangerous extremist who would start a nuclear war based on remarks he made about using nukes in Vietnam. That would be even easier to do to Smith, as she called for a preemptive direct nuclear strike on the USSR. So the situation would be even worse for her than Goldwater on every level: Yes sexism would be a factor, she could be even more easily portrayed as someone not to be trusted with nuclear weapons, her moderate views on civil rights and other social issues would give conservatives in the South and elsewhere no reason to vote for her, and LBJ would still be a popular incumbent running on the legacy of the martyred JFK. It would be an absolute rout. LBJ got the biggest popular vote share in the modern era as it was; against Smith he might have racked up Thomas Jefferson or James Monroe level numbers.

The ONLY area I see Smith improving on over Goldwater is New England, where she was from and where Yankee Republicans recoiled against Goldwater but may not have done so against her to the same extent. I still doubt she wins any states though. Vermont and of course Maine would probably be her best shots.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2020, 09:26:43 AM »

Chase Smith does worse than Goldwater, largely because of sexism.

She wins nothing.

Wallace sweeps the South (with the exception of Texas), while Johnson wins everything else.



Lyndon B. Johson/Hubert H. Humphrey (D) 366 EV
Margaret Chase Smith/Peter H. Dominick (R) 125 EV
George C. Wallace/Jimmie H. Davis (Dixiecrat) 47 EV

The idea that Smith wouldn't have carried a single state because of "sexism" is stuff and nonsense.  It is the kind of garbage that people come to believe due to their nutty college professors and half-baked activists who are able to get TV time.  If that were really true, Smith would not have ever been elected to the Senate in Maine.  (And she was elected to the Senate in her own right, even though she had earlier been elected to the House to succeed her own husband.)  She was what Hillary Clinton would have been if Hillary Clinton were a decent person.   She was long-widowed in 1964, and had been on Eisenhower's short list of VP candidates in 1952.  

Margaret Chase Smith represented the best of Moderate Republicanism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Conscience

Quote
She stated the basic principles of "Americanism" were:

^^^The right to criticize;
^^^The right to hold unpopular beliefs;
^^^The right to protest;
^^^The right of independent thought.

She took on Sen. Joe McCarthy when it could ruin her entire life, let alone her career.  She was a Massive FF, and that fact was recognized in her own time, much more than people think today.

Quote from: Sen. Margaret Chase Smith (R-ME)
The Democratic administration has greatly lost the confidence of the American people by its complacency to the threat of communism and the leak of vital secrets to Russia through key officials of the Democratic administration. There are enough proved cases to make this point without diluting our criticism with unproved charges.

Surely these are sufficient reasons to make it clear to the American people that it is time for a change and that a Republican victory is necessary to the security of this country. Surely it is clear that this nation will continue to suffer as long as it is governed by the present ineffective Democratic Administration.

Yet to displace it with a Republican regime embracing a philosophy that lacks political integrity or intellectual honesty would prove equally disastrous to this nation. The nation sorely needs a Republican victory. But I don't want to see the Republican Party ride to political victory on the Four Horsemen of Calumny -- Fear, Ignorance, Bigotry and Smear.

I doubt if the Republican Party could -- simply because I don't believe the American people will uphold any political party that puts political exploitation above national interest.

Where are the Democrats of today with such a tack?  Margaret Chase Smith had the courage to take on the Cancel Culture of the early 1950s.  I see no Democrat having such courage today.  But I digress.

Margaret Chase Smith would have carried the states I listed because she (A) was a properly partisan Republican who could compel Republicans to vote for her.  She wouldn't have won the election, but it would not have been a Goldwaterite disaster.  And if the Bobby Baker scandal may have been a bigger deal had she been the nominee.  

The Wallace states I picked would likely have been Wallace states because, like in 1948, individual Southern states would have named Democratic electors pledged to a "Dixiecrat" ticket.  I also believe that VA, TN, and FL, three (3) states that went for Eisenhower both times, would have voted for Smith narrowly.  TN and FL had areas where Republicans were established locally and VA hadn't gone for the Democratic nominee since 1948 at that time.  

A better question would be:  What kind of President would Margaret Chase Smith have been?

Margaret Chase Smith would have never adopted a Southern Strategy.  She would have been an unequivocal Civil Rights Republican.  She would have been an Eisenhower Republican on Civil Rights, only better, because Eisenhower never truly stood up to segregationists.  (Eisenhower was far more sympathetic to the South than Smith, and was OK with "going slower" on integration.)  She would likely not have involved America in the Vietnam War to the extent LBJ did; she would not have escalated the matter massively in fear of being the President that "lost Vietnam".  How effective she would have been in getting the Voting Rights Act and the Fair Housing Act passed is another matter; it is not really questioned that LBJ got that done because he could call in favors from Senators, but Margaret Chase Smith would have had the moral force of the argument on her side, and it's arguable that no Democrats that voted for Civil Rights Bills for LBJ would have opposed them if Smith were President.  

Margaret Chase Smith would have nominated the best possible candidates for the SCOTUS regardless of ideology.  There would have been no Haynesworth/Carswell debacles, and she would have not picked a mediocrity such as Warren Burger to be Chief Justice.  (She'd likely have chosen Potter Stewart to succeed Earl Warren.)  There would have been no Great Society with Margaret Chase Smith, but there would have been some social welfare programs instituted to combat hunger and poverty.  It is possible that such programs she would have implemented would not have had the unintended consequence of fostering unwed pregnancies and single parenthood as a way of life.  

She would have been a bi-partisan President; the conservative Goldwaterites would never have fully warmed to her (she'd have been viewed as a "Dime Store New Dealer"), but the moderate and liberal wing of the GOP would not have disappeared as it did (for the most part) as did happen over a rather short span of time.  Her party would certainly have pulled her rightward, and there would have been lots of concern for what kind of Republican would have been nominate in 1972.  But a Smith Presidency would have inevitably meant that there was a different set of issues in 1972.  I believe that there would have not been a Vietnam War under a President Smith.  I believe that, unlike LBJ and Nixon, she would have governed largely as a Peacetime President.  

What might have been always seems more attractive than what was and is.  I do think that Smith would have been a top-tier President in the Eisenhower mold.
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Agonized-Statism
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2020, 10:39:16 PM »



President Lyndon Johnson (D-TX) / Senator Hubert Humphrey (D-MN) ✓
Senator Margaret Smith (R-ME) / Governor William Scranton (R-PA)
Fmr. Governor Ross Barnett (SR-MS) / Fmr. Lt. Governor Garland Byrd (SR-GA)
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