Mass Shootings debate thread: What public policy options should be pursued?
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  Mass Shootings debate thread: What public policy options should be pursued?
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Author Topic: Mass Shootings debate thread: What public policy options should be pursued?  (Read 846 times)
Cassandra
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« on: May 24, 2022, 09:32:25 PM »

I figured it might be helpful to put this up to take some heat out of the USGD thread on today's awful mass shooting at the Texas elementary school.

To state the obvious, we have a mass shooting problem in this country. What do you think should be done about it? I'd love to hear about specific bills or other concrete policy proposals.

I'll refrain from stating my views in full here in the OP for fear of derailing. My stance on gun laws is driven by pessimism in the continuing viability of the American state project and a desire to protect myself and my loved ones from the armed right, a position which I have a feeling will be orthogonal to the discussion here.
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2022, 09:41:58 PM »

Metal detectors and security checkpoints at all schools.  A society in which children are gunned down at school has gone far past the line where you don't weigh all options because we have failed.  Not failing.
 Failed.  I am suggesting this because I see it as realistic.  I can't imagine how the 400 million civilian firearms are removed from circulation in society.  I can't even imagine how a dent is made.  There are a lot of reasons for that.  And it's sad that I think making schools into fortresses is the best option.  Never said it's not sad. 
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swamp fox
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 07:17:04 AM »

Mass confiscation so that only law enforcement/security specialists, active duty military, and licensed hunters are the only individuals permitted to possess firearms.

This is the only logical answer. 

LOL at people thinking it's impossible and are afraid of "but..but..but...muhcivil war". 
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 07:32:44 AM »

As far as I am concerned private gun ownership might just as well be banned altogether. At the same time, I'm realist enough to understand that this isn't and probably won't ever be possible within the context of America's political culture. So I'm open to any form of compromise that limits guns falling into the hands of crimnals, mentally unstable people, political or religious extremists (and I'm already hearing people crying about that you can't let the government decide who is an "extremist" and who is not - well, f**k them, that's not a point I'm willing to compromise on, the government is elected by and representing the people after all), and people who are generally untrained in handling guns.
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dead0man
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 07:36:57 AM »

Mass confiscation so that only law enforcement/security specialists, active duty military, and licensed hunters are the only individuals permitted to possess firearms.

This is the only logical answer. 

LOL at people thinking it's impossible and are afraid of "but..but..but...muhcivil war". 
you will end up with a lot of dead agents of the state and citizens who were not criminals until you past this stupid law.


And violent crime wouldn't go down for years, if ever.
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Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck
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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 07:38:11 AM »

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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 08:01:50 AM »

Every time I post in a thread about gun violence, someone inevitably asks me "sO whAt'S yOUr soLuTioN!??!?!" as if it's a gotcha. I have posted several potential solutions to gun violence on threads like these, none of which involve regulating guns directly (because that is both unconstitutional and a fool's errand):

- Eliminate school funding based on property taxes. Fund all schools proportionately to the size of their student body, with some exceptions for geographic requirements. This will provide more economic opportunity to underfunded inner-city schools.

- Increased rigor in public education. Raise the reading, writing, and mathematics standards at all grade levels. Enforce national guidelines that will hold kids back in only the specific classes they have not passed. Do not eliminate end-of-year testing or standardized tests.

- Allow parents to choose where to send their kids. Eliminate school districts. If a school loses too much of its student body to be viable, its administration will be fired and the buildings will be put under the control of a more successful school.

- Increase access to safe and legal abortion so that poor families are not saddled with caring for kids they cannot afford.

- Pardon all nonviolent drug offenders.

- Institute a negative income tax to encourage people to work, and to give low earners more economic security.

- Increase police funding, but require body cameras for officers and prioritize hiring officers to work in communities they are familiar with.

- A stock option buying program for workers who were displaced by automation.

I'm not asking anyone to respond to these individually, and I don't care if you agree with me on them or not. But contrary to popular belief, pro-2nd Amendment people do have ideas and solutions to this problem.
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beaver2.0
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 08:48:08 AM »

Metal detectors and security checkpoints at all schools.
I definitely agree with everything else you have said but honestly, I'm not sure how well this would work.  Why wouldn't the shooter just start shooting at the checkpoint?  Perhaps it would cut down on the number of deaths, but it feels like a band-aid rather than a solution that will change everything.  But then, as you said, it seems policy-makers are unwilling to take any serious steps, so maybe beefing up defenses is the best thing we can do.
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theflyingmongoose
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 05:31:59 PM »

Every time I post in a thread about gun violence, someone inevitably asks me "sO whAt'S yOUr soLuTioN!??!?!" as if it's a gotcha. I have posted several potential solutions to gun violence on threads like these, none of which involve regulating guns directly (because that is both unconstitutional and a fool's errand):

- Eliminate school funding based on property taxes. Fund all schools proportionately to the size of their student body, with some exceptions for geographic requirements. This will provide more economic opportunity to underfunded inner-city schools.

- Increased rigor in public education. Raise the reading, writing, and mathematics standards at all grade levels. Enforce national guidelines that will hold kids back in only the specific classes they have not passed. Do not eliminate end-of-year testing or standardized tests.

- Allow parents to choose where to send their kids. Eliminate school districts. If a school loses too much of its student body to be viable, its administration will be fired and the buildings will be put under the control of a more successful school.

- Increase access to safe and legal abortion so that poor families are not saddled with caring for kids they cannot afford.

- Pardon all nonviolent drug offenders.

- Institute a negative income tax to encourage people to work, and to give low earners more economic security.

- Increase police funding, but require body cameras for officers and prioritize hiring officers to work in communities they are familiar with.

- A stock option buying program for workers who were displaced by automation.

I'm not asking anyone to respond to these individually, and I don't care if you agree with me on them or not. But contrary to popular belief, pro-2nd Amendment people do have ideas and solutions to this problem.

1: Great idea. I'll never agree with the insane Anarcho-Capitalists who say public education should be eliminated.

2: Decent, but I am curious what your idea is for grades (K-5, usually) who only have one teacher/classroom.

3: This is good.

4: ER- banning public education leads to less abortion! In all seriousness, I don't like it when conservatives call themselves pro-freedom and get mad at liberals for imposing their values on them

5: What about distributors not involved directly in violence?

6: Better than several hundred programs you often can't even apply for if you don't have a computer.

7: A good solution. It kills two birds with one stone- hiring people in poor and high crime areas reduces criminal activity and reduces unemployment.

8: Certainly a good idea as opposed to raising prices for consumers just so companies continue to pollute here just so a couple hundred people can work for a couple more years in a dying industry.
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Samof94
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2022, 07:44:33 AM »

I figured it might be helpful to put this up to take some heat out of the USGD thread on today's awful mass shooting at the Texas elementary school.

To state the obvious, we have a mass shooting problem in this country. What do you think should be done about it? I'd love to hear about specific bills or other concrete policy proposals.

I'll refrain from stating my views in full here in the OP for fear of derailing. My stance on gun laws is driven by pessimism in the continuing viability of the American state project and a desire to protect myself and my loved ones from the armed right, a position which I have a feeling will be orthogonal to the discussion here.
Regulate guns and bring back assault weapons ban.
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Meclazine
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2022, 06:37:59 PM »

Take military grade semi-automatic weapons (e.g. AR-15) out of the hands of young men.

It is illegal in Australia to own a semi-automatic weapon like an AR-15 after the Port Arthur Massacre.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-to-prevent-gun-massacres-look-around-the-world
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Cassandra
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2022, 07:06:08 PM »

Take military grade semi-automatic weapons (e.g. AR-15) out of the hands of young men.

It is illegal in Australia to own a semi-automatic weapon like an AR-15 after the Port Arthur Massacre.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-to-prevent-gun-massacres-look-around-the-world

This could very well trigger a massive insurgency in the United States. There are a lot of young men with AR-15s and a "wish a mf would" complex. Men who (mostly) aren't going to commit homicide "unprovoked," but who (subliminally) would love the opportunity to put their toys to work.

This is the trap with gun control in the United States. Our society is ripping itself apart; too blunt of a policy intervention could kick the hornets nest over.
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Meclazine
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2022, 07:20:35 AM »

Take military grade semi-automatic weapons (e.g. AR-15) out of the hands of young men.

It is illegal in Australia to own a semi-automatic weapon like an AR-15 after the Port Arthur Massacre.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-to-prevent-gun-massacres-look-around-the-world

This could very well trigger a massive insurgency in the United States. There are a lot of young men with AR-15s and a "wish a mf would" complex. Men who (mostly) aren't going to commit homicide "unprovoked," but who (subliminally) would love the opportunity to put their toys to work.

This is the trap with gun control in the United States. Our society is ripping itself apart; too blunt of a policy intervention could kick the hornets nest over.

After reading this forum, I fully understand that.

I am a 'root cause' solutions guy.

We just have to wait for someone to knock off over 100 people with an AR-15, then it will happen.

Or from another perspective. In 25 years, we will look back at this year and say "can you believe teenagers were allowed to buy semi-automatic rifles in the 20's".

It is quite simply absurd.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2022, 01:13:06 AM »

Abolishing the FBI and the CIA
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The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2022, 03:20:28 PM »

Trying to make schools shooting-proof by altering their infrastructure or security policies is a complete non-starter. It's not gonna work, and it's going to be a logistical nightmare for students and staff.
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2022, 01:20:19 AM »
« Edited: June 24, 2022, 03:28:32 AM by OCPD Frank »

According to Clarence Thomas, train the kids to use guns and have them come to school armed.

Seriously, I suspect this is what's going to end up happening, at least at the high school level.

If crazed gunmen are rational, I'm sure that would lead to an increased number of killings at the primary school level, but I know the American attitude tends to be dominated by 'every person for themself.' 
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