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Poll
Question: How would you have voted for president in 2019?
#1
Fernández (Todos)
 
#2
Macri (JxC)
 
#3
Lavagna (CF)
 
#4
del Caño (FIT)
 
#5
Centurión (NOS)
 
#6
Espert (Unite)
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 51

Author Topic: Argentina General Discussion 🇦🇷  (Read 12216 times)
Red Velvet
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« Reply #75 on: December 31, 2020, 07:26:10 PM »

This is a sad step backwards on human rights in Argentina, but one which I believe will soon be overturned.

So awful for Argentina to join the developed countries and leave the company of anti-abortion human rights paradises, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian theocracies or with lots of religion presence.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law

Religion is something that should stay very far away from politics.
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2020, 08:22:28 PM »

I am disappointed that the new law later retains the rape exception, which is particularly morally insufferable. And of course I am very burnt out by the discourse/rhetoric. That's all I am going to say.



Religion is something that should stay very far away from politics.

Could you qualify the statement? I hope you don't support French-style laicism.

I was very clear.

Just like forcing people to follow your religion through politics is wrong, so is to force people to not publicly exerce their religion.

Decriminalization of abortion has nothing to do with French-style secularism, if your religion says abortion is bad, then you just don’t do it yourself. Everyone else is free to follow their path and their individual right of freedom to choose without the blocking of the State.

Just like Muslims in France should be free to publicly express their religion. The “teaching” lessons in France have hidden Christian backgrounds and are designed to provoke and segregate specifically Muslims, it’s fake secularism because there’s a clear bias from the State.
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Velasco
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« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2021, 06:50:37 AM »
« Edited: January 01, 2021, 06:58:10 AM by Velasco »

Amnesty International: legalization of anortion is an historic victory

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/argentina-legalization-abortion-historic-victory/

Quote
Today Argentina has made an emblematic step forward in defending the rights of women, girls and people with reproductive capacity. It has also sent a strong message of hope to our entire continent: that we can change course against the criminalization of abortion and against clandestine abortions, which pose serious risks to the health and lives of millions of people. Both the law passed by the Argentine Congress today and the enormous effort of the women's movement to achieve this are an inspiration to the Americas, and to the world,” said Erika Guevara-Rosas, Americas director at Amnesty International.

It is estimated that 450.000 clandestine abortions are performed vevery year in Argentina and the women dead from 1983 onwards due to unsafe conditions amount some 3,000. For those having moral objections or reserves. I would argue that decriminalization and safe conditions are the best way to prevent that women die. Abortion is a traumatic experience and no woman undertakes it for fun m. But there are multiple reasons why women seek to terminate unwanted pregnancies, even facing serious risks. Legalization and safe conditions are the best way to prevent that (mostly poor) women die in clandestine abortions, as well as sex education snd gender equality are the best ways to reduce unwanted pregnancies and abortions. I understand and respect people with ⁶moral objections,  but not those opposing decriminalization
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Estrella
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« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2021, 11:40:50 PM »

Looks like the farce that is PASO (aka "primaries" where no candidate has any significant opposition because if they did they'd have decamped to form their own party) will be scrapped. The government is for, JxC is against, probably because in 2023 they'd for once have a competitive primary to resolve the Macri/Larreta conflict.

Also, a poll:



Remember when Espert/Despertar/Frente Libertario/whatevs was at like 15%? Maybe he's crashed and burned, but it's more likely that Argentine polls are just shxt (either then or now).
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Estrella
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« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2021, 11:55:28 PM »

So PASO might or might not happen; what we know for sure will happen are the midterm elections.

The lower house, Chamber of Deputies, has 257 seats, of which half are elected every two years - 127 are at stake in 2021, those that were elected in 2017. Seats are theoretically allocated to provinces by population, however there is significant bias towards smaller provinces. This, in combination with only half of a province's allocation being elected at any one time means that small parties find it difficult to break through outside the most populous regions, Buenos Aires City and Buenos Aires Province. Regionally-based parties, built around a local caudillo (usually but not always a Peronist) have tended to do quite well, though.

The current numbers are:
Frente de Tods 119
Juntos por el Cambio 115
Consenso Federal 11
Hacemos por Córdoba 4
Frente Renovador de la Concordia 3
Frente de Izquierda y de los Trabajadores – Unidad 2
Movimiento Popular Nequino 1
Frente Progresista Civico y Social 1
Partido Socialista 1
Juntos Somos Río Negro 1

The upper house, Senate, has 72 seats, three for every province + the city of Buenos Aires. The ticket with the most votes wins two seats, the runner-up one. 24 seats are up for election, those in Catamarca, Chubut, Córdoba, Corrientes, La Pampa, Mendoza, Santa Fe and Tucumán.

The current numbers are:
Frente de Tods 41
Juntos por el Cambio 26
Parlamentario Federal 3
Frente Renovador de la Concordia 1
Juntos Somos Río Negro 1

Seats up in the Chamber / Seats up in the Senate


Now, a short Who is Who (though I guess most people following this are already familiar with the actors, whatevs):

FdT is the oficialismo, the more-or-less centre-left governing alliance that managed to unite almost all Peronists left right and centre for the first time since the 90s. Not amazingly popular but they're doing okay.

JxC is the main opposition, a more-or-less centre-right alliance of PRO (right-liberals), UCR (big-tent liberal anti-Peronists), CC-ARI (left-liberals/Lilita Carrió appreciation club) and other smaller parties. Rather ineffective in opposition and stand to lose a lot - 2017 was a great result for them.

Consenso Federal is a sad and doomed from the start attempt to create a "third way" between two main blocks. Their ideology is a complete mystery even more than usual for Argentina and they're connected by little more than their presidential candidate Roberto Lavagna, a great and competent economist but a terrible politician.
 
Parlamentario Federal is a rag tag and bobtail technical group in the Senate that attempts to revive the old Federal Peronism, aka I-hate-the-Kirchners-but-only-when-it-suits-me.

Hacemos por Córdoba is a local party in the province of (gasp!) Córdoba. Basically Peronists - their landslide victory in last provincial election was seen as a sign that Macri is in real trouble going into 2019.

Frente Renovador de la Concordia, Movimiento Popular Nequino and Juntos Somos Río Negro are regionalist parties in a similar vein, operating in Misiones, Nequén and Río Negro.

FIT-Unidad
is an alliance of small and otherwise irrelevant far-left parties (PO, PTS, IS and MST), gaining in popularity thanks to charismatic leader Nicolás del Caño.

FPCyS and their sidekick PS are whatever remains of Hermes Binner's 2011 alliance and in effect a regional party in Santa Fé, for a long time a stronghold of centre-left anti-Peronism for reasons that elude me.

Libertarians or whatever José Luis Espert's party is calling themselves today haven't won seats last time, but they've been polling pretty well lately and will most likely be able to win something in Buenos Aires.
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PSOL
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« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2021, 12:00:17 AM »

It would be a major success story for the Left Front to maintain. their momentum and polling numbers at this point. I honestly think they might be the most successful Marxist party in Latin America since the Cold War.

For one thing, I highly doubt the Left Front is just running on their official spokesman’s charisma, most times we’ve seen one man alliance bands collapse and burn fast. The Left Front has been at this for years and have gained support even when the pulse of the nation has shifted rightward.
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Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera
philormus
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« Reply #81 on: February 10, 2021, 11:44:56 AM »

It would be a major success story for the Left Front to maintain. their momentum and polling numbers at this point. I honestly think they might be the most successful Marxist party in Latin America since the Cold War.

For one thing, I highly doubt the Left Front is just running on their official spokesman’s charisma, most times we’ve seen one man alliance bands collapse and burn fast. The Left Front has been at this for years and have gained support even when the pulse of the nation has shifted rightward.
Well, the left front has successfuly carved itself a nice little niche of educated middle and upper-middle class urbanites, with some support from actuall working class people, that can keep it above the 1,5% paso threshold, but it still struggles to really expand beyond that. Many (if not most) of their voters aren't marxists, they're just progressives, and in a polarized election like that of 2019, they'll go with whomever can defeat the more right wing candidate, that's why the FIT lost almost 300 thousand votes from 2015 to 2019. Now that the kirchnerists are back in power, they might get some of those votes back, but they'll have to step up their game.

Also, i wouldn't call Del Caño "charismatic", i like him and he seems like a nice guy, but he's also a really goofy, akward dude, he's basically a meme at this point. And it's not like they lack other figures (Bregman, Solano, Del Pla, etc), they just aren't well known because they haven't had the national spotlight that is a presidential election.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
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« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2021, 02:33:30 PM »

Carlos Menem has died at 90 after a long series of health problems.
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alancia
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« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2021, 02:38:36 PM »

Carlos Menem has died at 90 after a long series of health problems.

A sad day, despite all the issues he had during and after his Presidency. Nevertheless, this also shows that the prophecy is coming true.
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H. Ross Peron
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« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2021, 04:46:27 PM »

Carlos Menem has died at 90 after a long series of health problems.

A sad day, despite all the issues he had during and after his Presidency. Nevertheless, this also shows that the prophecy is coming true.

Which prophecy?
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alancia
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« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2021, 04:52:32 PM »

Carlos Menem has died at 90 after a long series of health problems.

A sad day, despite all the issues he had during and after his Presidency. Nevertheless, this also shows that the prophecy is coming true.

Which prophecy?

Looking at the grand cycle of Argentine history, we find that things function in roughly 70 year spans.

1810-1880
1880-1945
1945-2021

Similar to the period between 1940 and 1945, people are dying that symbolize the old culture and politics. In these years, Alvear, Roca's son, Justo all died. While now, people like Maradona and now Menem have died. This is a strong signal that the political-cultural cycle that started in the 1940's is coming to an end, along with what it represents.
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Estrella
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« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2021, 06:07:46 PM »

Carlos Menem has died at 90 after a long series of health problems.

A sad day, despite all the issues he had during and after his Presidency. Nevertheless, this also shows that the prophecy is coming true.

Which prophecy?

Looking at the grand cycle of Argentine history, we find that things function in roughly 70 year spans.

1810-1880
1880-1945
1945-2021

Similar to the period between 1940 and 1945, people are dying that symbolize the old culture and politics. In these years, Alvear, Roca's son, Justo all died. While now, people like Maradona and now Menem have died. This is a strong signal that the political-cultural cycle that started in the 1940's is coming to an end, along with what it represents.

Probably for the best.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2021, 07:28:01 PM »

So awful for Argentina to join the developed countries and leave the company of anti-abortion human rights paradises, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and other authoritarian theocracies or with lots of religion presence.
Measuring how good something is by who does it is seriously fallacious. For example, Eisenhower joined the ranks of Mussolini, Hitler, and Franco in putting huge amounts of money to road building.

Quote
Religion is something that should stay very far away from politics.
As I have made clear many times, though not on this forum, I was raised in & rejected fundamentalist Christianity at a very young age. For a long time, I fallaciously used this rejection to justify my opposition to any point of fundamentalist Christianity, although these evangelicals gave hundreds of sermons on gay marriage and trans people and none on abortion.

To allege that any policy supported by a group more religious than its opponents is wrong headed bigotry. Such a fallacious allegation could be used to argue for slavery or eugenics, or against the civil rights movement almost entirely led, organized, and made up of the Black Church.

Further debate on the topic is more appropriate for another forum, but to fallaciously smear me as some religious fundamentalist is not merely immoral - it is factually incorrect.
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Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera
philormus
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« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2021, 01:55:07 AM »
« Edited: February 15, 2021, 02:26:57 AM by philormus »

RIP Menem, he died like he lived, leeching off the state and successfully evading punishment for all his crimes.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2021, 11:09:50 AM »

But apart from that he was alright?
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alancia
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« Reply #90 on: February 19, 2021, 03:55:38 PM »

Alberto asked for Health Minister Gonzáles García's resignation after journalist Verbitsky revealed in an interview he called García in order to get vaccinated.
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Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera
philormus
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« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2021, 07:33:35 PM »

Alberto asked for Health Minister Gonzáles García's resignation after journalist Verbitsky revealed in an interview he called García in order to get vaccinated.

That people in power use said power to vaccinate their friends, family, and themselves, is barely surprising at this point. But i find the way this story broke out so bizarre. Either Verbitsky is an absolute moron (and a terrible friend), or he did this on purpose, knowing full well what it would lead to. After all, this is a man with deep connections to the judiciary, intelligence agencies, and the political sphere (i think he has direct line with Cristina Kirchner). On who's behalf he could have done this, i couldn't say. Certainly not Alberto, he may have wanted to get rid of Ginés, but not this way, this would be an incomprehensible self-inflicted wound, ammunition for the opposition, and just a generally embarrassing situation. But something weird is going on behind the scenes.

Or maybe Verbitsky just felt nostalgic and wanted to relive his youth days as a guerrilla fighter when he (allegedly) betrayed his comrades to the military.
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Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera
philormus
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« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2021, 09:26:59 PM »

Well i guess i went too much into conspiracy theory territory, the explanation was much simpler: a journalist from clarín caught wind of the irregular vaccination scheme and was gonna expose it, so Verbitsky decided to get ahead and expose himself. He is still a snitch though.

Also Carla Vizzotti has been promoted to health minister. Not really a change, she had already taken over much of the official comunication and was the visible face of the ministry during the pandemic, but the government still will present it as a fresh start.
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Estrella
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« Reply #93 on: March 03, 2021, 11:10:02 AM »

Looks like Argentina has taken diplomatic pettiness to a new level: the official statistics on confirmed cases etc include numbers from Falk- er, nuestras Islas Malvinas lmao
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ale62
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« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2021, 01:39:19 PM »

nadie por la Kirchner? LOL
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alancia
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« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2021, 05:30:34 PM »

Looks like Argentina has taken diplomatic pettiness to a new level: the official statistics on confirmed cases etc include numbers from Falk- er, nuestras Islas Malvinas lmao

It was always included this way, since the start of the pandemic.
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Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera
philormus
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« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2021, 08:01:35 PM »
« Edited: March 05, 2021, 08:14:55 PM by philormus »

I saw this on youtube and thought to share it here. The particular event happened in october of last year and is old news now, but the larger fenomenom of poverty made worse by the pandemic is still ongoing. A sad but very real look into our current situation.

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Former President tack50
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« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2021, 08:37:12 PM »

Looks like Argentina has taken diplomatic pettiness to a new level: the official statistics on confirmed cases etc include numbers from Falk- er, nuestras Islas Malvinas lmao

This reminds me of this Argentinian children's show I found once and which I found hilarious Tongue


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Estrella
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« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2021, 07:53:50 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2021, 08:03:57 PM by Estrella ✯ »

Looks like Cristina is in legal trouble, again.

De qué está acusada Cristina Kirchner en la causa dólar futuro

Quote
According to the prosecutor Taiano's indictment, between September and November 2015, the Central Bank of Argentina traded dollar futures contracts on the Rosario Forward Market (ROFEX) and the Open Electronic Market (MAE).  "As a result of this operation, as of December 2015, the Central Bank of Argentina had open contracts on the ROFEX and the MAE for almost 17 billion dollars with a maximum maturity date of 30 June 2016," it said. And for that, the BCRA's board of directors extended the institution's limit to act in the dollar futures markets. "To meet these obligations, the BCRA's assets suffered losses of 77 billion pesos". [note: at the time approx. 5.5 billion USD]

Bonadio indicted Cristina Kirchner, Kicillof, Central Bank directors and members of the National Securities Commission. According to him and prosecutor Eduardo Taiano, "the fraud against the public administration was the result of the agreement and coordination of the highest state officials, who from their positions arbitrated the necessary measures to achieve it". "In accordance with the instructions of the National Executive Power, the authorities of the Central Bank of the Argentine Republic, with the necessary intervention of the National Securities Commission, sold in a short period an important volume of future dollar contracts at fictitious values, abusively obliging the entity, and therefore, society as sovereign of public assets," he said.

Judge Bonadio decided to send the proceedings to trial. In that resolution, the magistrate explained that the former president committed the crime of fraud by ordering operations to be made with the dollar in the futures market at a price well below the market price, a situation that - after the devaluation that brought the exchange rate in line - forced the state to pay the difference between the real value and that of the note at the time of closing the contract, which caused millions in losses to the treasury.

Her response was... in character, let's say. By which I mean she went on TV and yelled for almost an hour about various unrelated topics (but what about Macri and 2001 and megacanje and retirees and IMF and people's suffering, huh?).
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Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!
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« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2021, 10:08:45 PM »

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