Argentina General Discussion 🇦🇷

[Red Velvet]

I usually have a positive view on Alberto Fernandez.

But today he lost an opportunity to shut up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vugLeR9o2Hg

Lmao, Argentina is white memes incoming.

[Edu]

I usually have a positive view on Alberto Fernandez.

Well, that's your first mistake, right there

[Mike88]

A very rambling speech, the Brazil part barely is heard (I had to watch it twice to hear it well), but it's a perfect example of a political speech where he talks a lot and says nothing.

[Edu]

lol


https://twitter.com/irmaar/status/1402763489610027010?s=20

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Both Peronism and Argentine views of race alike a malignant tumor.

[Edu]

I know that the country is in a recession, so he had to jerk off Pedro Sanchez a bit, but I'm still baffled he actually said that

The worst thing is that Argentina did welcome lots of European immigrants in the late 19Th century and the beginning of the 20Th century (in 1914, about 30% of Argentina's population was literally European born)...but the country didn't spontaneously appear in 1880, the cultural syncretism started centuries before and the European immigration that I just talked about added to the mix. How difficult is it to express the importance of our melting pot without coming off as an ass?

By the way, it's also hilarious that he wanted to quote Mexican nobel prize winner Octavio Paz (who apparently said in jest something like "Mexicans come from the Aztecs, Peruvians come from the Incas and Argentinians come from the boats") but he actually quoted a 1980's Argentinian rock song. So he couldn't even get that right lol



Even Bolsonaro is having a field day with this

https://twitter.com/jairbolsonaro/status/1402780494891192321?s=20

[Red Velvet]

A very rambling speech, the Brazil part barely is heard (I had to watch it twice to hear it well), but it's a perfect example of a political speech where he talks a lot and says nothing.

He’s basically saying Argentina is a white country (Boats = European colonizers) in order to kiss Spanish ass since this is an Argentina-Spain relations kind of event, acting like Argentina is some sort of their direct descendant more than like, Mexico because there it has more darker looking people.

And he also compares it to other Latin American countries (Mexicans came from Indians = Indigenous; Brazilians came from Jungle = Africans) in order to reinforce Argentina’s European-ness lol. As if most Argentinians didn’t have some Indigenous inheritance like in other countries, or as if people from other places could be reduced to one single origin instead of mixed backgrounds from all over the place.

It’s basically the countryball meme coming into life.

The worst thing is that it allowed a racist like Bolsonaro to act like he celebrates diversity in his country (we all know he doesn’t), use minorities image for self-promotion after contributing for their erasure and mock the left-wing Argentinian president as the real racist.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

My interpretation of what he said:
Mexicans = pinche indios (some white guy saying we're "Indios" is pretty offensive to me!)
Brazilians = n-words (saying Brazilians are from the jungle is basically calling them spear-chuckers, isn't it?)

which, of course, conforms to every dirty stereotype that all other Latin Americans have about people from Argentina - that they are arrogant racists. It's hard to think of a dumber diplomatic faux pas than this one.

[Edu]

It's hard to think of a dumber diplomatic faux pas than this one.

lol I instantly remembered the tweet that Cristina Kirchner made back in 2015 while she was in China, mocking the accent

https://twitter.com/CFKArgentina/status/562951075230400513?s=20

[Edu]

https://twitter.com/OBS1927/status/1402767930409066498?s=20


https://twitter.com/Enmispensamien2/status/1402748448345051138?s=20

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

It's hard to think of a dumber diplomatic faux pas than this one.

lol I instantly remembered the tweet that Cristina Kirchner made back in 2015 while she was in China, mocking the accent

https://twitter.com/CFKArgentina/status/562951075230400513?s=20

My god...

[H. Ross Peron]

Sorry if this post is ignorant, but aren't Peronists generally somewhat more tolerant of people with indigenous/African ancestry in Argentina (as opposed to say Jews) because of their rural, working-class support base compared to the more urban, middle-class supporters of the anti-Peronist camp? I've seen some racist memes about how Peronists are ugly, racially mixed people. I get that Argentinian culture in generally prides their supposed European heritage, but I'm not sure if Peronists are more responsible for it than others.

[Former President tack50]

I cannot believe that the president of Argentina unironically used the "Argentina is white" meme. Like come on lmao

You know you messed up when even Bolsonaro gets to laugh at you

I know that the country is in a recession, so he had to jerk off Pedro Sanchez a bit, but I'm still baffled he actually said that

Advice to Alberto Fernández: Next time you are trying to seek international investment, try talking to a country that has disposable income in the first place

[Skye]

Famous language native to the jungle, Portuguese.

Alberto was a mistake.

[Estrella]

hahahaha r/argentina is having a field day with this

(Alejandro Biondini is a literal Nazi)

[Estrella]

A very rambling speech, the Brazil part barely is heard (I had to watch it twice to hear it well), but it's a perfect example of a political speech where he talks a lot and says nothing.

"pero particularmente también soy un europeista, soy alguien que cree en Europa"

I think he's saying he wants to run to replace Charles Michel.

[Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera]

The only thing our politicians never promise us but never fail to deliver is memeable quotes. And this one is great, up there with Menem's "We don't have black people in argentina, that's brasil's problem".

[Mike88]

A very rambling speech, the Brazil part barely is heard (I had to watch it twice to hear it well), but it's a perfect example of a political speech where he talks a lot and says nothing.

"pero particularmente también soy un europeista, soy alguien que cree en Europa"

I think he's saying he wants to run to replace Charles Michel.

No, no, that's António Costa's future job. Don't take that away from him. xD xD xD

But seriously, he was clearly ass licking to Spain and said one stupid thing after another stupid thing. The "European" gaffe was... lol, the Brazilian, ludicrous. Like I said, when some politicians want to impress and make very "complimentary speeches", more often than not they put their foot in their mouth.

[Former President tack50]

A very rambling speech, the Brazil part barely is heard (I had to watch it twice to hear it well), but it's a perfect example of a political speech where he talks a lot and says nothing.

"pero particularmente también soy un europeista, soy alguien que cree en Europa"

I think he's saying he wants to run to replace Charles Michel.

Perhaps the EU should offer a trade deal. Admit Argentina to the EU in exchange for kicking out Hungary and Poland or something like that

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

https://twitter.com/qrcapital/status/1403425291826044935

[PSOL]

https://twitter.com/qrcapital/status/1403425291826044935

Argentina as a whole needs to get over the racialist European obsession they have. It’s utterly unhealthy and keeps the country back.

[Edu]

https://twitter.com/qrcapital/status/1403425291826044935

lol, that's from an argentine TV show with journalist Eduardo Feinmann (who is usually a fascist, but he has some moments of glory like this one)

This will be forgotten rather quickly but it's always good to see a crap government like this one squirm. Not that the opposition is that much better, but I guess we are condemned to this.


By the way, Alberto Fernandez was in the 90's a staunch supporter of (even more neoliberal than Menem) Domingo Cavallo. Then he changed to become Kirchenrist, then he became one of the most vicious attackers of Cristina and kirchnerism, then he changed again to the nonsense that he is now. He's not even the worst flip-flopper in this government!

He lives in a high rise tower in Puerto Madero (which is one of the most expensive neighbourhoods to live in Argentina), so I'm betting he's not up to date in what normal people go through

[Red Velvet]

People are overreacting to the Alberto comment because they really didn’t expect it from him though. I wish there was the same big commotion whenever my president said something scandalous but people treat it as “meh, just another day of shame” and then forget it.

Some southern Brazilians have the exact same type of condescension towards the rest of the country because of their ancestry and that’s more of these people’s loss because the culture from other places is very unique and awesome. People wrongly perceive and associate European influence with being more rich because for so long that’s what racist structures following colonization allowed.

And that’s certainly not generalized to Argentina, but to Latin America and also the whole world. Only reason people like to delegate the meme to Argentina is because there’s more frustration there with the structural racist promises (being white = being rich and highly developed) not being really fully fulfilled like in other places in the west. So in times of economic crisis and general dissatisfaction they can find comfort based on these racial topics (poverty is on the rise but I’m still on the white club with those developed countries).

I think regardless of how white Argentina is or isn’t (that’s not really the interesting discussion imo), it’s important that they clearly see that they will always have much more in common with Latin America than with Europe. Latin America is the most diverse place in all the world because it’s a region of immigrants where there was tons of mixing, something also very present in the Argentina history regardless if fewer Indigenous people lived there. So if the region unites and gets along despite all these racial differences that vary between each place in the region, respecting these differences, we would be an example to the whole world because big clashes about this constantly happen all the time there (ex: Europeans super mad about Africans and Arabs “erasing” European identity; US people having the same anxiety of becoming more mixed and receiving lots of mixed Latino immigrants; etc).

[Cortarán todas las flores, pero jamás detendrán la primavera]

People are overreacting to the Alberto comment because they really didn’t expect it from him though. I wish there was the same big commotion whenever my president said something scandalous but people treat it as “meh, just another day of shame” and then forget it.

If people (both inside and outside brasil) don't bat an eye whenever Bolsonaro says something outrageous is because we've all come to expect it from him. No one expected Alberto Fernandez, progressive champion of the Americas, to say something so offensive. Hence the drama.

But i'd like to point that this seems to have had different reactions domestically and abroad. Foreigners comment on the racism of it, the underlying reasons for the comment.
Domestically, the theme has been mainly the stupidity of the situation. No one understands his lack of filter, how he didn't stop and thought "wait, this doesn't sound right, maybe i shouldn't say it". Some commentators lamment that this generated a diplomatic embarassment, at such a difficult time, and made us look bad internationally. Most of the reactions were from critics of the government who'll take any oportunity to dragg it throught the mud, many of them see the recent conversion of kirchnerists to political correctnes and progressivenes as insincere "woke bait", and feel validated by this. And of course, a lot of mockers and memers who don't take any of it seriously and have no real interest on serious discussion. Bur very few who try to start a serious debate on racism.

Even kirchnerist (most of whom have simply ignored this and wait for it to go away), the reaction i've heard from the ones i know (including most of my family) is anger at Alberto not for being offensive, but for being stupid, and at his assistants for not advicing him better. Everyone sees this as the latest in a long line of presidential gaffes, little deeper reflection on it. The fundamental racial notions in argentine society, rightfully criticized elsewhere in Latam, remain unchallenged here.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

https://twitter.com/qrcapital/status/1403425291826044935

lol, that's from an argentine TV show with journalist Eduardo Feinmann (who is usually a fascist, but he has some moments of glory like this one)

This will be forgotten rather quickly but it's always good to see a crap government like this one squirm. Not that the opposition is that much better, but I guess we are condemned to this.


By the way, Alberto Fernandez was in the 90's a staunch supporter of (even more neoliberal than Menem) Domingo Cavallo. Then he changed to become Kirchenrist, then he became one of the most vicious attackers of Cristina and kirchnerism, then he changed again to the nonsense that he is now. He's not even the worst flip-flopper in this government!

He lives in a high rise tower in Puerto Madero (which is one of the most expensive neighbourhoods to live in Argentina), so I'm betting he's not up to date in what normal people go through

And btw he doesn't own or even rent that apartment, it's owned by a friend of Fernández, who was cabinet member during the earlier days of kirchnerismo (who was pressured to resign way back in 2009 due to being involved several corruption scandals) and currently is a  media businessman who lends it to Alberto, y'know like regular people do all the time

And Alberto Fernández already owns two apartments in the relatively centric neighborhood of Recoleta, so there's no real need for him to be lent an extra apartment