Atlas ranks the presidents -- week 9 (WORST OF THE WORST)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 02:56:42 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Atlas ranks the presidents -- week 9 (WORST OF THE WORST)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10
Author Topic: Atlas ranks the presidents -- week 9 (WORST OF THE WORST)  (Read 9632 times)
NewYorkExpress
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,823
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2020, 09:41:57 PM »

What's with everyone ranking Millard Fillmore over Polk?

I didn't.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2020, 04:20:52 PM »

   1. Lincoln
   2. Grant
   3. Taylor
   4. Harrison
   5. Polk
   6. Fillmore
   7. Tyler
   8. Johnson
   9. Pierce
   10. Buchanan
Logged
The Ex-Factor
xfactor99
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,241
Viet Nam


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2020, 08:39:29 PM »

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Ulysses S. Grant
3. James Polk
4. Zachary Taylor
5. William Henry Harrison
6. Millard Fillmore
7. John Tyler
8. Franklin Pierce
9. Andrew Johnson
10. James Buchanan - still the worst president of all time.

Wish I had seen this thread in time to contribute to the Week 1 results. I disagree with a lot of the rankings.
Logged
GeneralMacArthur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,625
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2020, 08:42:54 PM »

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Ulysses S. Grant
3. James Polk
4. Zachary Taylor
5. William Henry Harrison
6. Millard Fillmore
7. John Tyler
8. Franklin Pierce
9. Andrew Johnson
10. James Buchanan - still the worst president of all time.

Wish I had seen this thread in time to contribute to the Week 1 results. I disagree with a lot of the rankings.

What would yours have been?
Logged
Joe Biden 2024
Gorguf
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,327


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2020, 10:48:43 AM »

Lincoln
Grant
Polk
Taylor
Fillmore
Harrison
Pierce
Tyler
Johnson
Buchanan
Logged
Paul Weller
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,217
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2020, 11:09:18 AM »

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. Ulysses S. Grant
3. Zachary Taylor
4. William Henry Harrison
5. Millard Fillmore
6. James Polk
7. John Tyler
8. Andrew Johnson
9. Franklin Pierce
10. James Buchanan
Logged
Gass3268
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,478
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2020, 11:27:49 AM »
« Edited: July 21, 2020, 11:33:06 AM by Gass3268 »

Lincoln
Grant
Fillmore
Polk
Taylor
Harrison
Tyler
Pierce
Buchanan
Johnson

If I hadn't missed the first round:

Washington
Monroe
Jefferson
Quincy Adams
Adams
Van Buren
Madison
Jackson
Logged
TDAS04
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,475
Bhutan


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2020, 11:52:58 AM »

Lincoln
Grant
Taylor
Harrison
Fillmore
Pierce
Polk
Tyler
Johnson
Buchanan
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,002
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2020, 12:36:08 PM »

I've been rewatching the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents, and I have personally been swayed to once again prefer a ranking of the Presidents that tries to take "my politics" out of it, including modern day biases.  This is the type of thinking that finds people like Jackson and Polk ranked historically much higher than someone like Grant, though the latter looks so much better on the currently-quite-important focus on race issues.  Nevertheless, I'm going to try to stick to the "HW Brands Style" and not my personal preference going forward:

1. Abraham Lincoln (R-IL)
2. James K Polk (D-TN)
3. Ulysses S. Grant (R-IL)
4. Zachary Taylor (W-LA)
5. Andrew Johnson (D-TN)
6. Millard Fillmore (W-NY)
7. John Tyler (W-VA)
8. William Henry Harrison (W-OH)
9. Franklin Pierce (D-NH)
10. James Buchanan (D-PA)

I think it should be rather indisputable that Lincoln ranks #1 here; he was head and shoulders more up to the task of the Presidency than the other men on this list.  Beyond that, I think it's clear that Polk and Grant are far ahead of the rest of the pack, and it will depend on what one values.  Should Polk's incredible efficiency and clearly effective leadership, along with the clear admiration people had for him at the time, outweigh the fact that he was sympathetic (or at least not openly hostile to) Southern interests?  Should Grant's willingness to take on the KKK and reduce its influence enough to outweigh is clear lack of interest in his duties and his administration functioning as a literal corporate welfare scheme?  That's a hard thing to debate.  Beyond those three, I think Pierce and Buchanan are the clear bottom two, as it's hard to argue that both didn't display demonstrable negligence in plunging us into civil war ... between those, honestly, they're just a bunch of weak or flawed men who weren't up to the task.  I look forward to the next group, as it will be quite interesting!
Logged
StateBoiler
fe234
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,890


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2020, 12:58:47 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2020, 01:06:57 PM by StateBoiler »

Lincoln
Polk
Tyler (there's a large gap here between 2 and 3, I'll give Tyler credit for being an independent president with no support in Congress and establishing succession)
Fillmore
Pierce
Taylor (responsible for starting the disintegration of the Whig Party)
Grant (most corrupt administration until Harding? presidents should be responsible for their appointments, also the first president that ran for a 3rd term even if not nominated)
Buchanan and Johnson tied

Harrison I consider unrankable.

Round 1:

Washington
Jefferson
J. Adams
Monroe
Jackson
Van Buren
J.Q. Adams (think as a person much more highly of John Quincy than I do Jackson, we are not ranking the ethics of the men, we are ranking the accomplishments during the presidency)
Madison ("Thou Shalt Not Declare War on England")
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2020, 08:24:30 PM »

I guess other people are doing the first week, too, so I will.

   1. George Washington
   2. Thomas Jefferson
   3. John Quincy Adams
   4. John Adams
   5. James Monroe
   6. Andrew Jackson
   7. James Madison
   8. Martin Van Buren

[I don't think it's really possible to separate one's personal politics from one's view of history entirely, but I've tried to be reasonably objective up to a point. I tend to agree presidents should be judged by their accomplishments in office first, but I don't think accomplishing bad things should earn you points —which is why JQA is ahead of Jackson here. Otherwise I tend to follow the conventional wisdom, with a few noteworthy exceptions. (With regard to Jackson, I'd argue expanding the power and importance of the presidency was his biggest achievement in office, and I'm not totally convinced that was on the whole a good thing. Monroe's actual presidency was a very mixed bag: JQA was responsible for most of his significant accomplishments, while Monroe escaped the blame for a bad economy and foreign policy blunders due mainly to the lack of a real opposition party after 1815.)]
Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,222
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2020, 11:14:54 PM »

Lincoln
Grant
Polk
Taylor
W. Harrison (can he really be ranked?)
Fillmore
A. Johnson
Pierce
Tyler
Buchanan
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,002
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2020, 11:22:43 AM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy
Worse Than Before: John Tyler, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover (who I actually really like, lol)

(My opinion of Buchanan also went even further down of Buchanan, but I already usually rank him last...)

P.S.  For those who have browsed the threads about "party continuity" (i.e., the subject of how the bizarre myth of the two parties "switching" is really ridiculous), the documentary actually does a great job of showing that EVEN if you maintain that the GOP during the Civil War and Reconstruction eras HAD to be a more "liberal" party than the Democrats on the basis of the slavery issue alone (I reject this, but I also digress), there really is no scholarly argument that the GOP isn't clearly the more right wing party post-1876.  Okay, I'll stop spamming now. Tongue
Logged
ScottieF
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 349


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2020, 03:30:22 PM »

Lincoln
Grant
Polk
Taylor
Harrison
Fillmore
Tyler
Pierce
Buchanan
Johnson
Logged
StateBoiler
fe234
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,890


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2020, 01:00:36 PM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy

On those last 2, how? Johnson was admittedly put in a can't win situation of whatever he did, everyone was still going to hate him, but still didn't handle the situation well. Kennedy in contrast is completely lionized in death. If anything him being shot meant historians pass the buck to LBJ for stuff they don't want to blame Kennedy for.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2020, 08:15:37 PM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy

On those last 2, how? Johnson was admittedly put in a can't win situation of whatever he did, everyone was still going to hate him, but still didn't handle the situation well. Kennedy in contrast is completely lionized in death. If anything him being shot meant historians pass the buck to LBJ for stuff they don't want to blame Kennedy for.
Most Johnson apologism runs along the lines of "he preserved the principle of an independent executive." (This is the story the official White House website tells, IIRC.) That mostly isn't true, and some would argue it's even a reason to hate Johnson more, but hey.

Tangentially related, one of my favorite anecdotes re: Johnson is that initially some Radical Republicans were pleased that he had become president, assuming that because of his humble upbringing and known dislike for slaveholders that he would be a more reliable ally than Lincoln. A cautionary tale against assuming everyone perceives their self-interest the way you do.
Logged
StateBoiler
fe234
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,890


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2020, 06:54:23 AM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy

On those last 2, how? Johnson was admittedly put in a can't win situation of whatever he did, everyone was still going to hate him, but still didn't handle the situation well. Kennedy in contrast is completely lionized in death. If anything him being shot meant historians pass the buck to LBJ for stuff they don't want to blame Kennedy for.
Most Johnson apologism runs along the lines of "he preserved the principle of an independent executive." (This is the story the official White House website tells, IIRC.) That mostly isn't true, and some would argue it's even a reason to hate Johnson more, but hey.

Tangentially related, one of my favorite anecdotes re: Johnson is that initially some Radical Republicans were pleased that he had become president, assuming that because of his humble upbringing and known dislike for slaveholders that he would be a more reliable ally than Lincoln. A cautionary tale against assuming everyone perceives their self-interest the way you do.

The Republican delegates deciding to nominate him at the 1864 "National Union" Convention for Vice President is literally one of the biggest political blunders ever in this country. There was never any thought given to he actually could become President, because Republicans obviously had no intentions of giving the presidency to the "Southern party" for free.
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,002
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2020, 11:05:41 AM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy

On those last 2, how? Johnson was admittedly put in a can't win situation of whatever he did, everyone was still going to hate him, but still didn't handle the situation well. Kennedy in contrast is completely lionized in death. If anything him being shot meant historians pass the buck to LBJ for stuff they don't want to blame Kennedy for.

I mean, it's not like my statement implied I thought either was a particularly amazing President (especially Johnson), merely that my opinion of them went up slightly.  I do appreciate that Johnson was more or less trying to implement what he thought would be Lincoln's Reconstruction plan, with a rather unavoidable "Southern bias" that was to be expected.  While morally I would side with the Radical Republicans, he stood up on behalf of the office of the Presidency in a way that - strictly in regard to precedent - I believe he should have.  As for JFK, I was rather unaware of just how much leadership he was forced to show during his short time in office.  Has he been glorified to the extent of being kind of overrated due to his untimely death?  Of course.  However, I do think that he had a rather productive time in office while alive, and my opinion of him went slightly up.  And though you didn't ask about Madison, my opinion has always been sky high of him as a person (he was my "favorite President" growing up, before I looked at them through a more political lens), but I really appreciated how tough of a Presidency he was given and how he managed to not only hold the nation together but lead a birth of our modern patriotism throughout the War of 1812, in the face of a pretty dire wartime situation.
Logged
Alben Barkley
KYWildman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,282
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.97, S: -5.74

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2020, 12:31:32 PM »

1. Abraham Lincoln
2. James Polk
3. Ulysses S. Grant
4. Zachary Taylor
5. William Henry Harrison
6. Millard Fillmore
7. John Tyler
8. Franklin Pierce
9. Andrew Johnson
10. James Buchanan

William Henry Harrison did literally nothing so he’s kind of a blank slate, with no positive or negative impact. That means everyone I rank below him was so bad it would literally have been preferable to have no president at all than them. Tells you how awful some of the presidents of this era were.
Logged
Alben Barkley
KYWildman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,282
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.97, S: -5.74

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2020, 02:25:39 PM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy
Worse Than Before: John Tyler, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover (who I actually really like, lol)

(My opinion of Buchanan also went even further down of Buchanan, but I already usually rank him last...)

P.S.  For those who have browsed the threads about "party continuity" (i.e., the subject of how the bizarre myth of the two parties "switching" is really ridiculous), the documentary actually does a great job of showing that EVEN if you maintain that the GOP during the Civil War and Reconstruction eras HAD to be a more "liberal" party than the Democrats on the basis of the slavery issue alone (I reject this, but I also digress), there really is no scholarly argument that the GOP isn't clearly the more right wing party post-1876.  Okay, I'll stop spamming now. Tongue

I agree with you post-1876 for the most part, though there’s a reason Teddy left to form the “progressive” party. In reality both parties had liberal and conservative wings for most of their history, so it’s an oversimplification to say that either one definitively was THE right or left party at almost any given time in history. And during the Civil War and for the most part Reconstruction, the GOP was the overall more left party. This isn’t really up for much debate. I mean, Marx wrote a letter to Lincoln praising them.

Anyway, if we’re talking documentary recommendations, for the modern era PBS has an extensive documentary covering the life of every US President from FDR to W. Bush, with the exception of Ford, as part of their “American Experience” series. I’ve watched them all, and all are good. The Truman documentary combined with the McCullough biography of him is one of the big reasons I became such a Truman fan. The HW doc also boosted my opinion of him.

I think they have some entries for earlier presidents too but I haven’t watched those.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,357


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2020, 02:35:20 PM »

As a slight aside, I strongly recommend the History Channel's Ultimate Guide to the Presidents that I mentioned earlier.  All of the episodes through Woodrow Wilson are on YouTube for free, and that only requires you to purchase three more ... they were $1.99 each on Amazon, so I of course did. Smiley

I had already seen it before, but it's easily the best documentary I have seen on the Presidents.  Instead of sharing random trivia about them or giving an overly moralizing narrative that is void of historical context, it really tries to look at how each man shaped the office for better and for worse.  I came away with different perspectives on a few different Presidencies:

Better Than Before: James Madison, Andrew Johnson, John F. Kennedy
Worse Than Before: John Tyler, William Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover (who I actually really like, lol)

(My opinion of Buchanan also went even further down of Buchanan, but I already usually rank him last...)

P.S.  For those who have browsed the threads about "party continuity" (i.e., the subject of how the bizarre myth of the two parties "switching" is really ridiculous), the documentary actually does a great job of showing that EVEN if you maintain that the GOP during the Civil War and Reconstruction eras HAD to be a more "liberal" party than the Democrats on the basis of the slavery issue alone (I reject this, but I also digress), there really is no scholarly argument that the GOP isn't clearly the more right wing party post-1876.  Okay, I'll stop spamming now. Tongue

I agree with you post-1876 for the most part, though there’s a reason Teddy left to form the “progressive” party. In reality both parties had liberal and conservative wings for most of their history, so it’s an oversimplification to say that either one definitively was THE right or left party at almost any given time in history. And during the Civil War and for the most part Reconstruction, the GOP was the overall more left party. This isn’t really up for much debate. I mean, Marx wrote a letter to Lincoln praising them.

Anyway, if we’re talking documentary recommendations, for the modern era PBS has an extensive documentary covering the life of every US President from FDR to W. Bush, with the exception of Ford, as part of their “American Experience” series. I’ve watched them all, and all are good. The Truman documentary combined with the McCullough biography of him is one of the big reasons I became such a Truman fan. The HW doc also boosted my opinion of him.

I think they have some entries for earlier presidents too but I haven’t watched those.

I think a better way to classify the parties rather than switched left or right is to classify the Republicans as the Pro Industry party with Democrats being the party opposed to the interests of industry .


So in the 19th century that meant the Democrats were the party of Agrarian as that was the main opposition to Industrial interests

in the 20th century, it was Labor as Labor were more or less the strongest opponents of industrial interests

in the 21st century it is tech as tech as been the main opponents of industrial interests


Once you look it at this way and not the left vs right way the directions the parties have taken no longer become surprising in any way
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,142


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: July 25, 2020, 09:13:38 PM »

Guys, let's not derail this thread.
Logged
darklordoftech
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,391
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2020, 09:42:00 PM »

Abraham Lincoln
Ulysses S. Grant
Zachary Taylor
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
James K Polk
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
Andrew Johnson
James Buchanan
Logged
GeneralMacArthur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,625
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2020, 03:25:23 PM »

Week 2 results are in the OP.

Week 3:  Prelude to the world wars

Rutherford B. Hayes
James A. Garfield
Chester A. Arthur
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
William Howard Taft
Logged
Alben Barkley
KYWildman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,282
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.97, S: -5.74

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2020, 04:59:20 PM »

Ah, the Gilded Age. Yet another series of mostly mediocre to terrible presidents.

1. Theodore Roosevelt
2. Grover Cleveland
3. William Howard Taft
4. William McKinley
5. James Garfield
6. Rutherford B. Hayes
7. Benjamin Harrison
8. Chester A. Arthur

It was hard to even rank them because there’s such a steep drop-off between 1 and 2 alone, then another one between 4 and 5. After that they all suck so hard they are pretty much interchangeably bad. Garfield gets points, like William Henry Harrison, for dying before he could do pretty much anything. That means it’s incredibly damning to do worse than him. Hayes ended Reconstruction as part of a corrupt deal to steal an election. Arthur was so bad he ended decades of Republican rule. Harrison was so bad people brought the guy who he beat in the first place back.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 10  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.069 seconds with 11 queries.