Catholic Church got at least $1.4 billion in Coronavirus aid

[NewYorkExpress]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/catholic-church-coronavirus-aid-lobbying/

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.


The church's haul may have reached — or even exceeded — $3.5 billion, making a global religious institution with more than a billion followers among the biggest winners in the U.S. government's pandemic relief efforts, an Associated Press analysis of federal data released this week found.

Houses of worship and faith-based organizations that promote religious beliefs aren't usually eligible for money from the U.S. Small Business Administration. But as the economy plummeted and jobless rates soared, Congress let faith groups and other nonprofits tap into the Paycheck Protection Program, a $659 billion fund created to keep main street open and Americans employed.

Does this violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause?

[GP270watch]

To bail out sinking attendance and child rape settlements, pretty disgusting.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Obviously not they got what they were eligible for at a very micro level (parish, school) just to keep people on payroll like every other non-profit/educational/healthcare institution. The more interesting story is the car being driven into a Catholic church in Florida and church set ablaze during worship and an historic mission in California being mysteriously burned down today (investigation to follow - we shall see). And Badger has the nerve to tell me that we are still welcome in this country.

GP's bigoted comment that has nothing to do with what PPP payments are directed to just tells me another Florida Man is on the loose. These are payments for being forced to shut down it's revenue streams like every other institution in this country. But the media is intent on stroking the flames so expect more churches to go up in flames.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

That's across thousands of different Catholic organizations.

People complaining that someone they don't like got money from PPP don't understand the purpose of this money in the first place.

[jimrtex]

Obviously not they got what they were eligible for at a very micro level (parish, school) just to keep people on payroll like every other non-profit/educational/healthcare institution. The more interesting story is the car being driven into a Catholic church in Florida and church set ablaze during worship and an historic mission in California being mysteriously burned down today (investigation to follow - we shall see). And Badger has the nerve to tell me that we are still welcome in this country.

GP's bigoted comment that has nothing to do with what PPP payments are directed to just tells me another Florida Man is on the loose. These are payments for being forced to shut down it's revenue streams like every other institution in this country. But the media is intent on stroking the flames so expect more churches to go up in flames.

The AP itself said that the $1.4 billion supported 408,000 jobs, or roughly $3400 per person.

[jimrtex]

Does this violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause?

If they yank you into confession and feed the information to the NSA, it might.

Has this happened?

[GP270watch]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

[jimrtex]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

It sounds like to me that you are very susceptible to being led, and are incapable of critical thinking.

[T'Chenka]

They should not have recieved a dime, unless it was to help their charity typeo of work with the poor vulnerable.

[Badger]

They should not have recieved a dime, unless it was to help their charity typeo of work with the poor vulnerable.

If it was to keep teachers in the school, or administrative workers employed oh, the same as any other non religion, it's probably kosher. No pun intended.

Also, considering the Catholic Church operates a huge number of Charities helping the poor and vulnerable, which people forget about due to the headline-grabbing pedophilia cover-ups candles and sad recent history of speaking to preserve homophobia in public policy, makes it not just constitutional but a good thing as well.

[T'Chenka]

They should not have recieved a dime, unless it was to help their charity typeo of work with the poor vulnerable.

If it was to keep teachers in the school, or administrative workers employed oh, the same as any other non religion, it's probably kosher. No pun intended.

Also, considering the Catholic Church operates a huge number of Charities helping the poor and vulnerable, which people forget about due to the headline-grabbing pedophilia cover-ups candles and sad recent history of speaking to preserve homophobia in public policy, makes it not just constitutional but a good thing as well.

If they're showing evidence thst the money is being used for the good reasons you mentioned, that's fine. Accountability is essential though. They don't even pay taxes, so all financial help must be verified as "kosher" IMO.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

It sounds like to me that you are very susceptible to being led, and are incapable of critical thinking.

It sounds to me like you are projecting.

[GP270watch]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

It sounds like to me that you are very susceptible to being led, and are incapable of critical thinking.

It sounds to me like you are projecting.

 He needs a reading comprehension class too:

Simply being eligible for low-interest loans was a new opportunity. But the church couldn't have been approved for so many loans — which the government will forgive if they are used for wage, rent and utilities — without a second break.

Religious groups persuaded the Trump administration to free them from a rule that typically disqualifies an applicant with more than 500 workers. Without this preferential treatment, many Catholic dioceses would have been ineligible because — between their head offices, parishes and other affiliates — their employees exceed the 500-person cap.

 lobbying + special exemption = bail out

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

They should not have recieved a dime, unless it was to help their charity typeo of work with the poor vulnerable.

If it was to keep teachers in the school, or administrative workers employed oh, the same as any other non religion, it's probably kosher. No pun intended.

Also, considering the Catholic Church operates a huge number of Charities helping the poor and vulnerable, which people forget about due to the headline-grabbing pedophilia cover-ups candles and sad recent history of speaking to preserve homophobia in public policy, makes it not just constitutional but a good thing as well.

If they're showing evidence thst the money is being used for the good reasons you mentioned, that's fine. Accountability is essential though. They don't even pay taxes, so all financial help must be verified as "kosher" IMO.

This argument is getting more tiresome by the day. What income would you like them to pay taxes on? Nothing indicates that they are very profitable because they do not have the goal of making a profit. All money is supposed to go out the door, and it is taxed when it goes to the recipient -e.g., a priest's meager $30k salary that they pay taxes on. This should be far less controversial than other non-profits who are actually fixated on making money. I don't have the full accounting background here either, but I imagine the concern is about whether some expenses they incur are actually deductible -e.g., losses from putting on a street fair for the congregation (I don't know the US tax deduction technicals - that probably is deductible too but for the sake of an example). Or perhaps they may have a book profit because of the pace of capital depreciation, but I think this would result in even more losses.

Companies do not typically pay taxes on revenues, except for casinos (some localalities may apply this). Any wealth that they have is usually in the form of real estate, which is more of a public good than anything whether it be as a tourist attraction or a place for the homeless to sleep where they are paying astronomical sums to maintain and heat the buildings (all deductible). Do you propose a non-uniform wealth tax on the church buildings and art when exclusive non-profits like museums are exempt?

This whole hullabaloo is over a book-keeping method and not anything that would make a tangible difference. Please tell me if you see it otherwise.

e - cc: Ernest if you can correct anything.

[The Free North]

Great news!

The church does fantastic charity work in the US, I can't imagine how many pepole in need this will help.

[pppolitics]

Why does the church need aids when it doesn't pay taxes?

[Badger]

Why does the church need aids when it doesn't pay taxes?

Because while a definite Financial benefit, it's a charitable non-profit at heart.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Why does the church need aids when it doesn't pay taxes?

It wouldn't pay taxes under any scenario, wise guy. It's not a profit making entity. Why should janitors and teachers be let go because the government mandated church and school closures?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

It sounds like to me that you are very susceptible to being led, and are incapable of critical thinking.

It sounds to me like you are projecting.

 He needs a reading comprehension class too:

Simply being eligible for low-interest loans was a new opportunity. But the church couldn't have been approved for so many loans — which the government will forgive if they are used for wage, rent and utilities — without a second break.

Religious groups persuaded the Trump administration to free them from a rule that typically disqualifies an applicant with more than 500 workers. Without this preferential treatment, many Catholic dioceses would have been ineligible because — between their head offices, parishes and other affiliates — their employees exceed the 500-person cap.

 lobbying + special exemption = bail out

The 500 person limit is a quirk of non-profits being added to the SBA loan program and the SBA system's employee limit (which is a weird way to define a small business anyway).  It's perfectly fine to lobby for an exemption to a rule that arbitrarily puts your organization at a disadvantage.   

[MasterJedi]

Churches shouldn’t get public money. Congregants should fork over more money if they want their own congregation to survive. Or the Vatican could step up.

[afleitch]

That's potentially 50k per parish. That's just insane.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

As someone who has helped his own church navigate the PPP process, the reason it sought a PPP loan wasn't to get money to pay the pastor, but to pay the preschool employees. At least around here, there are quite a few church associated preschools and nurseries.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

A third hate crime against Catholics in two days, now in Boston church where a statue of Mary is set on fire. Thank you very much, Associated Press.

I've already spent the last three years desperately trying to find seating next to an obstacle that I could defensively use in case of a mass shooting. It is getting genuinely scary. If I felt comfortable with weapons, I would probably carry just to church, but I am really not looking to be a gun owner. I wish I could feel comfort in others doing so.

[RINO Tom]

Clearly have zero familiarity with the Establishment Clause if you have to ask.

[Badger]

Very first paragraph.

The U.S. Roman Catholic Church used a special and unprecedented exemption from federal rules to amass at least $1.4 billion in taxpayer-backed coronavirus aid, with many millions going to dioceses that have paid huge settlements or sought bankruptcy protection because of clergy sexual abuse cover-ups.

Sounds like a bailout to me.

It sounds like to me that you are very susceptible to being led, and are incapable of critical thinking.

It sounds to me like you are projecting.

 He needs a reading comprehension class too:

Simply being eligible for low-interest loans was a new opportunity. But the church couldn't have been approved for so many loans — which the government will forgive if they are used for wage, rent and utilities — without a second break.

Religious groups persuaded the Trump administration to free them from a rule that typically disqualifies an applicant with more than 500 workers. Without this preferential treatment, many Catholic dioceses would have been ineligible because — between their head offices, parishes and other affiliates — their employees exceed the 500-person cap.

 lobbying + special exemption = bail out

The 500 person limit is a quirk of non-profits being added to the SBA loan program and the SBA system's employee limit (which is a weird way to define a small business anyway).  It's perfectly fine to lobby for an exemption to a rule that arbitrarily puts your organization at a disadvantage.   

This. Would it really be any difference in offering a similar waiver for groups like The Red Cross or Salvation Army so they can do their good works?

Actually it would be for the Red Cross, because they are one of the most mismanaged and administrative-heavy Charities out there, but I digress.